this is interesting...................
4th of July DUI checkpoint
- Thread starter CourierDriver
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"no, this is fine"
lol
lol
JHZR2
Staff member
If one browses youtube enough, they will find that there are a ton of videos of people baiting or otherwise filming officers while doing something right on the edge of suspicion, in the interest of getting a response to film, put on youtube, and make money by getting hits.
I dont see much of a difference between this and the garbage reporting on most news stations, also intended to sell advertising.
And that's not saying at all that the cop was right, reasonable or rational... or that the person filming was doing anything wrong.
I too am offended when going through checkpoints and treated like a criminal. But if it is not raining, I cant really see a good basis for doing a minimally courteous behavior of opening the window completely or at least to a reasonable level.
To play devil's advocate here, DUI is not just alcohol, and both alcohol and smoked drugs could have substantial odor in a vehicle, which minimally opening a window would be a telltale sign that there is something to hide. So at some point "probable cause" may well come into play... Especially if the person driving makes every effort to deny every request.
At the two DUI stops Ive driven through, Ive acted identically, except that Ive rolled my window down and talked in compelte sentences instead of "this is good enough", and have gone right along.
I dont see much of a difference between this and the garbage reporting on most news stations, also intended to sell advertising.
And that's not saying at all that the cop was right, reasonable or rational... or that the person filming was doing anything wrong.
I too am offended when going through checkpoints and treated like a criminal. But if it is not raining, I cant really see a good basis for doing a minimally courteous behavior of opening the window completely or at least to a reasonable level.
To play devil's advocate here, DUI is not just alcohol, and both alcohol and smoked drugs could have substantial odor in a vehicle, which minimally opening a window would be a telltale sign that there is something to hide. So at some point "probable cause" may well come into play... Especially if the person driving makes every effort to deny every request.
At the two DUI stops Ive driven through, Ive acted identically, except that Ive rolled my window down and talked in compelte sentences instead of "this is good enough", and have gone right along.
male egos bouncing off each other create interesting situations..just saying.
The cop acted like a douche on a power trip, but if the kid had just cooperated instead of playing lawyer, he probably would've been in and out of there quickly with no hassle.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
male egos bouncing off each other create interesting situations..just saying.
For sure!
It would be a great thing if cops actually had better training for this stuff in general (Ive watched quite a few of these baiting cops videos on youtube over the last few years), and left the ego at home. That said, if you had to deal with a population of illiterate, entitled and generally rude people, who are generally in dangerous or endangering situations, would you be all that calm? No reason for rudeness and ego, but to whatever extent, I can probably see what hardens these guys.
male egos bouncing off each other create interesting situations..just saying.
For sure!
It would be a great thing if cops actually had better training for this stuff in general (Ive watched quite a few of these baiting cops videos on youtube over the last few years), and left the ego at home. That said, if you had to deal with a population of illiterate, entitled and generally rude people, who are generally in dangerous or endangering situations, would you be all that calm? No reason for rudeness and ego, but to whatever extent, I can probably see what hardens these guys.
Example of why some people become cops. Gain the power and control they lacked as a child.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Example of why some people become cops. Gain the power and control they lacked as a child.
Perhaps, but the kid still was baiting and somewhat rude to the point that he created his own proably cause (likely on purpose to get hits and make money on youtube).
Neither group is innocent here...
Example of why some people become cops. Gain the power and control they lacked as a child.
Perhaps, but the kid still was baiting and somewhat rude to the point that he created his own proably cause (likely on purpose to get hits and make money on youtube).
Neither group is innocent here...
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Perhaps, but the kid still was baiting and somewhat rude to the point that he created his own proably cause (likely on purpose to get hits and make money on youtube).
Neither group is innocent here...
Attitude is not a crime. I don't agree that being stopped, detained and questioned is in any way Constitutional.
The only party at fault here are the government agents. And we both know it. There was no reason to stop and question this guy.
Perhaps, but the kid still was baiting and somewhat rude to the point that he created his own proably cause (likely on purpose to get hits and make money on youtube).
Neither group is innocent here...
Attitude is not a crime. I don't agree that being stopped, detained and questioned is in any way Constitutional.
The only party at fault here are the government agents. And we both know it. There was no reason to stop and question this guy.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Example of why some people become cops. Gain the power and control they lacked as a child.
Spot on. Most cops are simply swaggering bullies on a power trip. Be careful, because CONTEMPT OF COP can be a capital offense!
Example of why some people become cops. Gain the power and control they lacked as a child.
Spot on. Most cops are simply swaggering bullies on a power trip. Be careful, because CONTEMPT OF COP can be a capital offense!
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Example of why some people become cops. Gain the power and control they lacked as a child.
Absolutely correct. Many of the "local cops" we have are simply the bullies that were in high school that found an easy way of "legally" bullying people as adults.
Example of why some people become cops. Gain the power and control they lacked as a child.
Absolutely correct. Many of the "local cops" we have are simply the bullies that were in high school that found an easy way of "legally" bullying people as adults.
I am totally against DUI and such, but those checkpoints are bad news. If they don't get you for a DUI, they're also going to be fishing for other stuff: illegal tints, missing front license plate, suspicion of X, etc. Often times they have a spotter hidden a block away that goes after people who avoid the checkpoints. Total [censored].
I suggest you all take a look at the National Motorists Association's stance on roadblocks and DUI:
http://www.motorists.org/roadblocks/
http://www.motorists.org/dui/
I suggest you all take a look at the National Motorists Association's stance on roadblocks and DUI:
http://www.motorists.org/roadblocks/
http://www.motorists.org/dui/
I think you meant illegal "tint".
The guy was kind of a ****. Still, while he did a few things wrong, the behavior of the police officer was not justified.
For me the point where the behavior of the police officer goes from "potentially legitimate law enforcement behavior" to "thug" is when it is openly admitted on camera that "this guy knows his rights, and he knows he's innocent."
At that point whatever thin veil of legitimacy surrounding the temporary detention of this individual is removed, because it brings into question the idea that they were doing all of this because they felt like the guy was actually drunk and replaces it with the idea that they're harassing him because they didn't like his attitude.
When the police feel like they can abuse their authority and make life difficult for people for no lawful reason, they're a single step away from planting evidence to arrest people they don't like. The officers at this check-point all need to be reprimanded, at the very least. The guy was a troll, sure, but they handled him so poorly that it suggests complete incompetence.
For me the point where the behavior of the police officer goes from "potentially legitimate law enforcement behavior" to "thug" is when it is openly admitted on camera that "this guy knows his rights, and he knows he's innocent."
At that point whatever thin veil of legitimacy surrounding the temporary detention of this individual is removed, because it brings into question the idea that they were doing all of this because they felt like the guy was actually drunk and replaces it with the idea that they're harassing him because they didn't like his attitude.
When the police feel like they can abuse their authority and make life difficult for people for no lawful reason, they're a single step away from planting evidence to arrest people they don't like. The officers at this check-point all need to be reprimanded, at the very least. The guy was a troll, sure, but they handled him so poorly that it suggests complete incompetence.
ANYONE on here who starts talking about the Officer and his attitude is clearly biased against the Police from the get go. The PUNK driving started the entire fiasco with his attitude.
The Officer was polite and courteous to the driver at the outset. His attitude only changed when the punk driver started acting like a tool. It was the driver who started it all by refusing to roll the window down and his other snarky comments about his rights.
That kid purposely tried to bait the Officer and he got just what he asked for.
The Officer was polite and courteous to the driver at the outset. His attitude only changed when the punk driver started acting like a tool. It was the driver who started it all by refusing to roll the window down and his other snarky comments about his rights.
That kid purposely tried to bait the Officer and he got just what he asked for.
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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
ANYONE on here who starts talking about the Officer and his attitude is clearly biased against the Police from the get go. The PUNK driving started the entire fiasco with his attitude.
The Officer was polite and courteous to the driver at the outset. His attitude only changed when the punk driver started acting like a tool. It was the driver who started it all by refusing to roll the window down and his other snarky comments about his rights.
That kid purposely tried to bait the Officer and he got just what he asked for.
You and I must not have watched the same video. There was nothing about the officer's behavior that was "polite" other than the very first request for him to roll down the window, which is NOT something the guy was actually obligated to do.
It doesn't matter if the driver started anything, because there was technically absolutely nothing illegal about his behavior.
ANYONE on here who starts talking about the Officer and his attitude is clearly biased against the Police from the get go. The PUNK driving started the entire fiasco with his attitude.
The Officer was polite and courteous to the driver at the outset. His attitude only changed when the punk driver started acting like a tool. It was the driver who started it all by refusing to roll the window down and his other snarky comments about his rights.
That kid purposely tried to bait the Officer and he got just what he asked for.
You and I must not have watched the same video. There was nothing about the officer's behavior that was "polite" other than the very first request for him to roll down the window, which is NOT something the guy was actually obligated to do.
It doesn't matter if the driver started anything, because there was technically absolutely nothing illegal about his behavior.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Perhaps, but the kid still was baiting and somewhat rude to the point that he created his own proably cause (likely on purpose to get hits and make money on youtube).
Neither group is innocent here...
Attitude is not a crime. I don't agree that being stopped, detained and questioned is in any way Constitutional.
The only party at fault here are the government agents. And we both know it. There was no reason to stop and question this guy.
No reason? Maybe, maybe not. But the law, which the guy in the video cited, is that he has to stop at the checkpoint. His behaviors indeed cause him to look suspect.
You and I shared the same basic beliefs when I was griping about airport mm-wave irradiation machines, remember this six-page thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2435591&page=1
But I definitely think that if he had rolled the window down, as opposed to baiting the cop by having a telltale suspicious behavior, that there would have been zero issues. Even motorists.org, which is big on showing and retaining/defending your rights when on the road and stopped, admits that refusa to drop a window will "heighten" the officer's suspicion.
So lets play this out:
-Refusal to drop window to allow officer to observe odors. Creates reasonable suspicion.
-Officer then requests breath test to verify due to reasonable suspicion. Driver can refuse.
-Double refusal opens window to arrest on probable cause.
What a stupid situation, but I cant say that if I were the cop, and I saw this situation, that I wouldnt have suspicion of the person who is playing this game. I think it is very reasonable for an officer to be suspicious to this kind of behavior at a DUI stop. I cant stand the concept of DUI stops, but then again, I cant stand the thought of drunks of drugged up people on the road, which is why these exist, and why being able to evaluate via the window is important - inability to do so is suspicious, no matter how one plays it.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Perhaps, but the kid still was baiting and somewhat rude to the point that he created his own proably cause (likely on purpose to get hits and make money on youtube).
Neither group is innocent here...
Attitude is not a crime. I don't agree that being stopped, detained and questioned is in any way Constitutional.
The only party at fault here are the government agents. And we both know it. There was no reason to stop and question this guy.
No reason? Maybe, maybe not. But the law, which the guy in the video cited, is that he has to stop at the checkpoint. His behaviors indeed cause him to look suspect.
You and I shared the same basic beliefs when I was griping about airport mm-wave irradiation machines, remember this six-page thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2435591&page=1
But I definitely think that if he had rolled the window down, as opposed to baiting the cop by having a telltale suspicious behavior, that there would have been zero issues. Even motorists.org, which is big on showing and retaining/defending your rights when on the road and stopped, admits that refusa to drop a window will "heighten" the officer's suspicion.
So lets play this out:
-Refusal to drop window to allow officer to observe odors. Creates reasonable suspicion.
-Officer then requests breath test to verify due to reasonable suspicion. Driver can refuse.
-Double refusal opens window to arrest on probable cause.
What a stupid situation, but I cant say that if I were the cop, and I saw this situation, that I wouldnt have suspicion of the person who is playing this game. I think it is very reasonable for an officer to be suspicious to this kind of behavior at a DUI stop. I cant stand the concept of DUI stops, but then again, I cant stand the thought of drunks of drugged up people on the road, which is why these exist, and why being able to evaluate via the window is important - inability to do so is suspicious, no matter how one plays it.
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
ANYONE on here who starts talking about the Officer and his attitude is clearly biased against the Police from the get go. The PUNK driving started the entire fiasco with his attitude.
The Officer was polite and courteous to the driver at the outset. His attitude only changed when the punk driver started acting like a tool. It was the driver who started it all by refusing to roll the window down and his other snarky comments about his rights.
That kid purposely tried to bait the Officer and he got just what he asked for.
You and I must not have watched the same video. There was nothing about the officer's behavior that was "polite" other than the very first request for him to roll down the window, which is NOT something the guy was actually obligated to do.
It doesn't matter if the driver started anything, because there was technically absolutely nothing illegal about his behavior.
Sorry, exact same video. I saw the Officer ask how he was doing and then ask him to roll the window down in a polite and civil tone of voice. I then listened to a punk kid refuse a reasonable request and proceed to yak about his rights while purposely trying, and succeeding in, baiting the Officer. He got exactly what he was after so I have zero sympathy for him.
Saying "Sir" a lot and talking about his rights, even if he is correct, does not make him right. Again, he got just what he asked for. Next time roll the window down and just do what you are asked. It was not an unreasonable request and the Officer was polite and courteous until the punk started running off at the mouth. After that I only observed Officers acting in response to the punks actions.
If the punk was not drunk or stoned he could have been out of there in a couple minutes. Instead he turned it into a big confrontation needlessly. I have to put myself in the Officer's shoes when he reacted like that. It leaves me only one conclusion and that is he has something to hide. His continued arrogance and refusals to comply just made things worse. The kid was a tool who tried to bait an Officer and what do you know it worked.
Exactly why should I feel bad for the kid and demonize the Officer? If the Officer acted like that with no provocation that is different. I am sick of people causing confrontations and then wanting me to side with them. Not happening.
Also, I would have to read the local law for that state but if an Officer asks you to get out of your vehicle or roll the window down here you are legally obligated to do so. Otherwise it is failin g to comply with an Officer's orders. You can be arrested for not complying. It was a legal traffic stop( DUI check point )and I do not see how it is legal for the punk to not comply with the Officer's reasonable request to roll the window down?
EDIT - I just re-watched the video again and frankly I see no fault at all with the Police here. Had I been in their shoes I would have done the same thing right down to the dog check. Again, if the punk had just rolled the window down and done what he was asked to do none of that would have happened. He brought it all on himself.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
ANYONE on here who starts talking about the Officer and his attitude is clearly biased against the Police from the get go. The PUNK driving started the entire fiasco with his attitude.
The Officer was polite and courteous to the driver at the outset. His attitude only changed when the punk driver started acting like a tool. It was the driver who started it all by refusing to roll the window down and his other snarky comments about his rights.
That kid purposely tried to bait the Officer and he got just what he asked for.
You and I must not have watched the same video. There was nothing about the officer's behavior that was "polite" other than the very first request for him to roll down the window, which is NOT something the guy was actually obligated to do.
It doesn't matter if the driver started anything, because there was technically absolutely nothing illegal about his behavior.
Sorry, exact same video. I saw the Officer ask how he was doing and then ask him to roll the window down in a polite and civil tone of voice. I then listened to a punk kid refuse a reasonable request and proceed to yak about his rights while purposely trying, and succeeding in, baiting the Officer. He got exactly what he was after so I have zero sympathy for him.
Saying "Sir" a lot and talking about his rights, even if he is correct, does not make him right. Again, he got just what he asked for. Next time roll the window down and just do what you are asked. It was not an unreasonable request and the Officer was polite and courteous until the punk started running off at the mouth. After that I only observed Officers acting in response to the punks actions.
If the punk was not drunk or stoned he could have been out of there in a couple minutes. Instead he turned it into a big confrontation needlessly. I have to put myself in the Officer's shoes when he reacted like that. It leaves me only one conclusion and that is he has something to hide. His continued arrogance and refusals to comply just made things worse. The kid was a tool who tried to bait an Officer and what do you know it worked.
Exactly why should I feel bad for the kid and demonize the Officer? If the Officer acted like that with no provocation that is different. I am sick of people causing confrontations and then wanting me to side with them. Not happening.
Also, I would have to read the local law for that state but if an Officer asks you to get out of your vehicle or roll the window down here you are legally obligated to do so. Otherwise it is failin g to comply with an Officer's orders. You can be arrested for not complying. It was a legal traffic stop( DUI check point )and I do not see how it is legal for the punk to not comply with the Officer's reasonable request to roll the window down?
EDIT - I just re-watched the video again and frankly I see no fault at all with the Police here. Had I been in their shoes I would have done the same thing right down to the dog check. Again, if the punk had just rolled the window down and done what he was asked to do none of that would have happened. He brought it all on himself.
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