Another Honda ATF Question

[Quakish]

Sorry for another Honda ATF question but I couldn't really find the answer to my questions from reading a bunch of threads here.

I have a 2004 honda that i have used ATF Z-1 since new. Z-1 is not available from the dealer anymore. However I can get Idemitsu Type H ATF (which is Z-1) but it is expensive @ $10 per quart.

I would consider using DW-1 but I have heard from my mechanic that there are reports of older Honda trannies not doing so well with it because the new fluid is thinner than Z-1 and older trans were not spec'd for the thinner fluid (even though Honda has back spec'd DW-1). Comparing DW-1 and Z-1 specs they are very close. Z-1 is thicker @ 40C but they are pretty close @ 100C (6.8 vs 7.1) and they have the same flashpoint of 170C.

I've also looked at some alternatives such as Valvoline Maxlife Dex/Merc (which seems to be thinner than DW-1 and Z-1), Castrol Multi Import ATF (thicker than DW-1 and Z-1) and Redline D4 Syn ATF (A little thicker than Z-1 but pretty close).

So my questions are:
1) Should I just forget about it and use DW-1? seems like it could be a synthetic version of Z-1 based on the specs.
2) Should I use one of the other fluids? Have read OK things about Castrol Multi Import ATF but read here that it shears quickly??

Thanks in advance for any info provided.

 

[Falken]

Just checked my tranny fluid level today on my Fit.

It was good and hot, and MAN, DW-1 is as thin as water.

You MAY have trouble with it.

I'd chance it only if you regularly changed your Z-1 and didn't let it turn into muck.

 

[Quakish]

Falken - i've done 4 x drain and fills every 50,000 km. i have just over 150,000km right now. probably start doing 1 x drain and fills every 20,000km

 

[Falken]

I'd do a drain and fill with it then.

I had a slow 1-2 shift when it was cold out on my Fit, as it came from the factory filled with Z-1.

One drain & fill cured the sluggish cold shifts.

I found Z-1 to be substandard compared to DW-1.

It IS a 2004. If you make the change it will only be a third of the volume, so you aren't really committing to anything and you'll be "serviced" for another 50,000 km.

I do a drain and fill every year or two. Stuff is cheap.

Please chime in and let us know how you like the shifts.

Remember, firm but comfortable shifts = less wear.

Also, take note of the shift points in RPM before you make the swich to see if they change much.

I think you'll like it.

 

[stockrex]

if Honda says dw1 replaces the old one, I would trust Honda.

 

[Mr Nice]

I still have 6 quarts of Z-1 ATF but will eventually use DW-1.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I've used both Z-1 and DW-1 in my 2005 CR-V. 183k and doing fine.
Also currently using DW-1 in the 2008 Pilot, no issues. Not sure what came from the factory in this one.

 

[tommygunn]

Maxlife and Castrol Import work very well, as does Mag 1 Synthetic Low-Vis (full synthetic for under $5 per quart!)

You only need to do one drain and fill every 30k. The "flush" (repeated 3x drain) is only necessary if you had like 200k and never changed the ATF)

 

[hsd]

My 2000 Accord used Z1 for the first 120k miles (with 20k drain and refills) then I switched to Maxlife 3 years ago before DW1 came out. Never had any trany problems. I expect the DW1 will work fine in your 2004, but so will Maxlife and Castrol Import. Either of those are more readily available and cost less than DW1 or other ATF brands.

 

[Umibozu]

Originally Posted By: Quakish
Sorry for another Honda ATF question but I couldn't really find the answer to my questions from reading a bunch of threads here.

I have a 2004 honda that i have used ATF Z-1 since new. Z-1 is not available from the dealer anymore. However I can get Idemitsu Type H ATF (which is Z-1) but it is expensive @ $10 per quart.

I would consider using DW-1 but I have heard from my mechanic that there are reports of older Honda trannies not doing so well with it because the new fluid is thinner than Z-1 and older trans were not spec'd for the thinner fluid (even though Honda has back spec'd DW-1). Comparing DW-1 and Z-1 specs they are very close. Z-1 is thicker @ 40C but they are pretty close @ 100C (6.8 vs 7.1) and they have the same flashpoint of 170C.

I've also looked at some alternatives such as Valvoline Maxlife Dex/Merc (which seems to be thinner than DW-1 and Z-1), Castrol Multi Import ATF (thicker than DW-1 and Z-1) and Redline D4 Syn ATF (A little thicker than Z-1 but pretty close).

So my questions are:
1) Should I just forget about it and use DW-1? seems like it could be a synthetic version of Z-1 based on the specs.
2) Should I use one of the other fluids? Have read OK things about Castrol Multi Import ATF but read here that it shears quickly??

Thanks in advance for any info provided.



Your fretting over what a mechanic tells you vs Honda who has already released service bulletins to use DW-1 in place of Z1. Just like stockrex stated, trust Honda....they know your transmission and required atf fluid better than your mechanic who probably has no correlated/quantified data.

 

[Quakish]

Originally Posted By: Umibozu


Your fretting over what a mechanic tells you vs Honda who has already released service bulletins to use DW-1 in place of Z1. Just like stockrex stated, trust Honda....they know your transmission and required atf fluid better than your mechanic who probably has no correlated/quantified data.


i hear you but this is the same company that put out those turd transmissions in their v-6's from 1999 to 2004. and the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that if all those old hondas switch to DW-1 and fail it's new car time and honda will stand to benefit. crazy, crazy, i know...

but i probably will use DW-1. it looks very close to Z-1 and i'm hoping it won't shear as quickly as Z-1 supposedly does. I can get a case for $6.75/bottle which is only $2/bottle more than Castrol Multi Import around here.

 

[Falken]

Quakish, you know all of the Conspiracy Theorists in North America have been found to be right about everything ALL ALONG, don't you?

Nothing is worse than grenading an AT.

You have no risk with one D&F of DW-1.

It truly is a solid ATF.

There HAVE been hit and misses with abused AT's but using Maxlife on this board.

BUT, you had dilligent changes of Z-1.

 

[Mau]

Use Maxlife ATF. Thats what is going into the RDX next. I'm using it in my Maxima now and love it.

It's cheap, good quality synthetic fluid.

 

[bigdawg74]

Originally Posted By: Mau
Use Maxlife ATF. I'm using it in my Maxima now and love it.


Sorry, but you cannot compare a Maxima transmission to an Accord transmission. Two different beasts.

Originally Posted By: Falken

You have no risk with one D&F of DW-1.

It truly is a solid ATF.

You had dilligent changes of Z-1.


This pretty much says it all. That case price is good. Go with the DW-1 and sleep well at night.

 

[Jim Allen]

Bear in mind that Z-1 shears like a big dog. It starts out thicker than DW-1 but very quickly shears down thinner than DW-1. DW-1, on the other hand, because it has a better base oil, holds a viscosity level that's higher than the Z-1 and does so over the longer term.

This is a scenario that's being played out all over the ATF realm. If you you go onto the PQIA site, you will see this discussed in regards to Valvoline Maxlife ATF vs Dex III and other ATF.

There is a minimum viscosity spec and the ATF with lesser base oils have to start off much higher to stay above that viscosity after the shearing that rapidly takes place. The ideal is to have the ATF viscosity stay at some optimal designed point and the better base oils can do it better.

 

[Quakish]

Jim - your comment regarding shearing is what I was thinking but I am by no means an expert on fluids, chemicals, etc. I'm sure I know just enough half truths to be considered dangerous!! The new oils look thinner but don't shear as much.

I'll use my DW-1 and will enjoy life!!

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Quakish


I'll use my DW-1 and will enjoy life!!



This!

If you're going to keep that Honda for some time to come why take chances using a all makes fluid?


As long as the car had regular scheduled fluid changes with Honda Z1 keep using the new spec DW1 and forget about it. The car will perform perfectly for a long time to come.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Quakish
Falken - i've done 4 x drain and fills every 50,000 km. i have just over 150,000km right now. probably start doing 1 x drain and fills every 20,000km
Good call.