Hornady Critical Defense Lite 90 gr .38 spl

[Cup of Joe]

I was at the gun store and they had a bunch of them on the shelf. I bought a box and shot a few rounds from my LCR comparing it to some Blazer target rounds and Hornady 130gr .38 spl +P ZombieMax, another round on their shelves.

The recoil from the Critical Defense Lite is very lite, the lightest of the 3 I shot that day. This round is clearly targeted for the lady shooter, however the balistic gelatin test in the video seem unimpressive.



What are your thoughts? Is this round simply to lite to be effective?

http://www.hornady.com/store/38-Special-90-gr-FTX-Critical-Defense-lite/

 

[Pablo]

Tater-n-Noodles changed your name?

Seems like a 90gr is very light for a .357" bullet. If it works for some folks to carry, fine - but heck if I went 90 grains then I would up the pressure too...defeats the purpose I guess.

 

[spasm3]

The muzzle engergy is 288 out of 4 inch barrel, as high or higher than some of their other loads. Looks like its due to being 90g weight. Lighter buller i would want to know the ballistic gelatin penetration. But it looks ok.

 

[JHZR2]

I dont know of anyone who would want to get hit with it...

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Cup of Joe
What are your thoughts? Is this round simply to lite to be effective?


That round COULD be effective, just like a sharp stick COULD be effective. It is not optimal and is really just a marketing gimmick in my opinion towards women with the pretty pink tip and packaging. In essence, this is the same (or very similar) bullet that they load into their .380ACP loads. The round probably only gets 6-8 inches of penetration, way short of the standard FBI protocol 12-15 inches of penetration. I wouldn't carry these and would pick a better round for sure.

The Speer Gold Dot 135+p gets 13.1 inches of penetration and expands to .56". The FBI load (158+p Semi Wadcutter HP) penetrates even deeper and has similar expansion.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I dont know of anyone who would want to get hit with it...
I don't know anyone who'd want to get hit with .22 short.

Anyway, I'd buy(or try with the ammo panic) known performers like the Speer Short Barrel. And you can get it in 50 round boxes for cheaper than buying 20 rd boxes of other stuff.

 

[Astro14]

It's got considerably more muzzle velocity and energy than the similarly weighted 380 ACP Critical Defense, in fact, it's got higher velocity and more energy than the 110 gr .38 SPL +P critical defense round, so while it's not as good as a .357 magnum, or the larger calibers, it's better than a lot of rounds that folks are carrying for defense. So, if the recoil is lowered enough that a shooter can get the rounds on target, then it's a good round for that shooter.

A hit with this sure beats a miss with a heavier JHP from a .357...

 

[hatt]

You have the numbers for the Lite load out of a 2 inch barrel? I suspect it's pretty close to the .380 when fired out of actual carry guns.

And where is the ballistic data. I can go to ATK's site and see how the round performs against numerous criteria, and other rounds. It's the benefit of using highly researched and documented carry ammo.

Edit. I see Hornady does give data for their Critical Duty line.

 

[dkryan]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
It's got considerably more muzzle velocity and energy than the similarly weighted 380 ACP Critical Defense, in fact, it's got higher velocity and more energy than the 110 gr .38 SPL +P critical defense round, so while it's not as good as a .357 magnum, or the larger calibers, it's better than a lot of rounds that folks are carrying for defense. So, if the recoil is lowered enough that a shooter can get the rounds on target, then it's a good round for that shooter.

A hit with this sure beats a miss with a heavier JHP from a .357...


++1

To [censored] with all of the usual internet drivel about velocity, bullet size, and ballistic gelatin results (when has ballistic gelatin ever gotten stoned on meth and tried to attack someone?).

Shot placement in a critical area is what counts. And repeated shot placement so that you stop the attacker is what really counts. You can debate that other [censored] all year long, but unless you understand and practice basic shooting fundamentals and can place one or more shots in a critical area while under tremendous stress, kindly stay on the bench.

 

[hatt]

"and can place one or more shots in a critical area while under tremendous stress, kindly stay on the bench"

Kindly detail the shootouts you've been involved in.

 

[dkryan]

Originally Posted By: hatt
"and can place one or more shots in a critical area while under tremendous stress, kindly stay on the bench"

Kindly detail the shootouts you've been involved in.


I haven't been in any, fortunately, nor do I want to be in a shootout. However, I have consistently read accounts of shootings each year, both police and civilian, and the one factor that seems to be appear repeatedly is the shooter hitting the perp in a vital area.

No "wonder bullets," no "my bullet is bigger than yours," and no "look at my hi-tech laser" appeared in any of these shootings.
The details of the pathology reports reflected shots to vital areas. That was the one constant in all shootings, regardless of the caliber cartridge used and regardless of what the shooter learned on the internet.

 

[hatt]

"No "wonder bullets"

Yep, that's why I buy defense ammo that's heavily researched, tested, and documented to give a satisfactory level of performance. And not just the latest marketing angle.

"one factor that seems to be appear repeatedly is the shooter hitting the perp in a vital area"

Yep, and if you can get a good hit it doesn't hurt to use one that's likely to work well and hopefully get the job done.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: dkryan


To [censored] with all of the usual internet drivel about velocity, bullet size, and ballistic gelatin results (when has ballistic gelatin ever gotten stoned on meth and tried to attack someone?).

Shot placement in a critical area is what counts. And repeated shot placement so that you stop the attacker is what really counts. You can debate that other [censored] all year long, but unless you understand and practice basic shooting fundamentals and can place one or more shots in a critical area while under tremendous stress, kindly stay on the bench.


We have a real professional ballistics expert on this board.

The FBI, after over 100 years of trial and error, recommends 12-15 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. Why would they do that? Has it not occurred to you that in many shootouts, you simply wont' have the opportunity to make a shot with perfect shot placement? Sometimes the bullet has to travel through the body at odd angles before it reaches vitals. Sometimes it has to pass through an arm, or furniture, or a car door or window glass before it has an opportunity to do it job (stop the threat)

You can choose to carry the .38 special lite round if you wish. But I will choose a round with the velocity, weight, and track record behind it to do the job and to penetrate to the vitals if I need it to.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Looks like it penetrates 8 inches per hornady testing.

http://www.hornady.com/mediacenter/v/201...ageViewsIndex=2

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: dkryan


To [censored] with all of the usual internet drivel about velocity, bullet size, and ballistic gelatin results (when has ballistic gelatin ever gotten stoned on meth and tried to attack someone?).

Shot placement in a critical area is what counts. And repeated shot placement so that you stop the attacker is what really counts. You can debate that other [censored] all year long, but unless you understand and practice basic shooting fundamentals and can place one or more shots in a critical area while under tremendous stress, kindly stay on the bench.


We have a real professional ballistics expert on this board.

The FBI, after over 100 years of trial and error, recommends 12-15 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin. Why would they do that? Has it not occurred to you that in many shootouts, you simply wont' have the opportunity to make a shot with perfect shot placement? Sometimes the bullet has to travel through the body at odd angles before it reaches vitals. Sometimes it has to pass through an arm, or furniture, or a car door or window glass before it has an opportunity to do it job (stop the threat)

You can choose to carry the .38 special lite round if you wish. But I will choose a round with the velocity, weight, and track record behind it to do the job and to penetrate to the vitals if I need it to.


Got it. And I choose to carry .40 S&W 165 gr JHP (Speer Gold Dot) or 10 mm 180 gr JHP (Buffalo Bore)....both proven LE rounds, both with FBI provenance...

But this Hornady round isn't marketed to, or appropriate for, you and me. It's not for the regular shooter, it's not for folks in LE.

It's for the person that can't handle the recoil of that kind of ammo. It's for the person who has a .38 SPL and can't even handle the .38 SPL +P (which is a decent round, by the way)...and the #s on this round aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be, as I said, the round is much better performing than most .380 ACP, which many people carry.

 

[bubbatime]

I will agree with your assessment that this round is marketed towards those that are recoil shy. A regular 148 grain wad cutter would be a better self defense round than these 38 special lite rounds though.

 

[hatt]

Quote:
and the #s on this round aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be
Look above your post. 8 inches penetration is very poor. Light bullet, low energy round, low penetration. Has nothing going for it. Likely be better off with 148 gr wadcutter target ammo.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Likely be better off with 148 gr wadcutter target ammo.


Great minds think alike. We both posted this at exactly the same time. Wadcutters get about 18" of penetration.

 

[hatt]

They sure do.

 

[SOHCman]

Are you talking hard cast lead wadcutters? Or standard FMJ target loads.

I have heard this for the .380acp as well, that you want penetration, as no amount of expanding round will matter if its only going 8 inches?

Heck, iv even heard this on bear defense threads.

Does the local ballistic expert back this up?