The NEW middle class

[SteveSRT8]

I would absolutely agree that no one wants the truly needy to be harmed, we work in local charities and also give aid directly to elderly folks in the three counties my Wife works in.

Just the other day she was in a trailer in Homosassa with four 65+ adult males living there. We brought them a HUGE bag of clothes from my old wardrobe (lost a few pounds) and watched with a smile as they tore into that bag and began trying on the shirts, etc. The smiles on their faces were fantastic.

If more people at the local level were willing to get their hands dirty there wouldn't be a need for so much government redistribution. If you're involved, thank you. If you're not then it's likely you will be paying even more as time goes by, we should all be interested in the truly needy.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: EType

He has been successful in keeping the minimum wage for restaurant workers in many states at the same level for 20 years. $2.13 an hour.

And restaurants employ 9% of America.

And they mostly sell food that contributes to health problems.

How many people are getting screwed here in the name of profit for a few?

If as a society we value things being cheap over quality, and we accept that when it comes to food, we can't complain when we get the bad results that that leads to.

What should the minimum wage be?

I would ask you: Why do you want the government to put barriers on employers to hire non/low skilled labor?

If these employees aren't productive enough to justify the higher wage, then they don't get hired.

Minimum wage is a barrier to entry and discriminates against low skilled labor.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Wages, benefits, total compensation, whatever is stagnating and dropping.

So the BLS stats are wrong?

The graph you posted shows that things appeared to stop increasing around 2007 and stagnated, then appear to start to dip back down after 2010. Which is in-line with the statement mechanicx made

You mean during the Great Recession with an excessive supply of labor?

The overall trend is for total compensation to rise with productivity.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Wages, benefits, total compensation, whatever is stagnating and dropping.

So the BLS stats are wrong?

The graph you posted shows that things appeared to stop increasing around 2007 and stagnated, then appear to start to dip back down after 2010. Which is in-line with the statement mechanicx made

You mean during the Great Recession with an excessive supply of labor?

The overall trend is for total compensation to rise with productivity.


The overall trend in the past perhaps. But we don't know where it is going from right now (going by the graph you posted). As the current trend appears for it to be in stagnation/decline. Which is in-line with what mechanicx has stated.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Wages, benefits, total compensation, whatever is stagnating and dropping.

So the BLS stats are wrong?

The graph you posted shows that things appeared to stop increasing around 2007 and stagnated, then appear to start to dip back down after 2010. Which is in-line with the statement mechanicx made

You mean during the Great Recession with an excessive supply of labor?

The overall trend is for total compensation to rise with productivity.


I've seen plenty of sources that say the trend is since about 1970 for total compensation to stagnate/drop as productivity has increased, especially for men. Google is your friend. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/what-happened-to-the-wage-and-productivity-link/

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am amused by guys here touting Germany as the model. I get a sneaking feeling that they do NOT want to implement their taxing and social system in the USA.

Are you willing to have German level of taxes, German healthcare, German safety nets? All of you who have been screaming German superiority at top of your lungs suddenly become very quiet.


yeah I'd hate to have that scary level of good german healthcare. yuck, this is america where we spend 10x as much and get half as much

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx

I've seen plenty of sources that say the trend is since about 1970 for total compensation to stagnate/drop as productivity has increased, especially for men. Google is your friend. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/what-happened-to-the-wage-and-productivity-link/


That is for WAGES, not total compensation.

If one compares productivity with total compensation using the same methodology, then they track very closely:
http://macromarketmusings.blogspot.com/2008/04/more-real-wages-and-productivity.html

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am amused by guys here touting Germany as the model. I get a sneaking feeling that they do NOT want to implement their taxing and social system in the USA.

Are you willing to have German level of taxes, German healthcare, German safety nets? All of you who have been screaming German superiority at top of your lungs suddenly become very quiet.


yeah I'd hate to have that scary level of good german healthcare. yuck, this is america where we spend 10x as much and get half as much


If good German healthcare involves copious amounts of Spaten I am onboard

 

[Vikas]

But I am American and I do not consider myself successful until I have somebody who is doing worse than me. I want to feel myself superior. I want *them* to suffer. Why should *they* get the same healthcare that I am getting through my employer? *Those* low lifer should rot! That is why I rant against immigrants and welfare recipients and NOT against the folks who are fleecing me alive as I want to join the ranks of later and despise the former.

Hopefully it should be obvious through my sarcasm that we as a nation do NOT WANT universal and affordable healthcare.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
But I am American and I do not consider myself successful until I have somebody who is doing worse than me. I want to feel myself superior. I want *them* to suffer. Why should *they* get the same healthcare that I am getting through my employer? *Those* low lifer should rot! That is why I rant against immigrants and welfare recipients and NOT against the folks who are fleecing me alive as I want to join the ranks of later and despise the former.

Hopefully it should be obvious through my sarcasm that we as a nation do NOT WANT universal and affordable healthcare.

Then I assume that you regularly walk through your local hospital hand your own money to strangers for their health care?

Better yet, you could give your bank account number to the hospital administrator and have them take arbitrary sums of money out for you?

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Then I assume that you regularly walk through your local hospital hand your own money to strangers for their health care?

Better yet, you could give your bank account number to the hospital administrator and have them take arbitrary sums of money out for you?


that's the dumbest thing I've read all day. congratulations. people already get health care, but it costs much more because they simply walk away from their bills. duh. even mitt romney understood this.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Then I assume that you regularly walk through your local hospital hand your own money to strangers for their health care?

Better yet, you could give your bank account number to the hospital administrator and have them take arbitrary sums of money out for you?


We are already doing that with our existing system. A majority of the cost in health care is to cover the "charity" work performed on those who could not afford it (most of them are, mind you, US citizen due to low income and have no insurance). Then those who could afford insurance is paying for these "overhead" cost.

If you do not buy your insurance and have assets when you need medical help, and are given a huge bill, it is the equivalent to giving them your bank account access so they can withdraw it to pay for others' medical services, indirectly.

Remember, people who couldn't afford help don't die off as in the survival of the fittest world, they always manage to get it elsewhere (via government or costing other people more via the charity nature of the work).

 

[Mr Nice]

ObamaCare is causing lots of hospital layoffs across the USA.

4000 layoffs at LSU healthcare system.
Read about the healthcare job cuts on...


www.DailyJobCuts.com

 

[FXjohn]

why do people figure cut and pasted propaganda is close enough to the truth? UHC is coming.

 

[eljefino]

Yeah but once a person is bankrupt they have a wicked time starting their own business, so they either work for the man for the rest of their lives (potentially giving a % to the hospital "forever") or work underground.

Either way they're 2nd class serfs!

Look at people hiding their assets before going to nursing homes. Capitalist thinking-- live modestly and save 100's of thousands of dollars for retirement-- has a big hole in its theory if someone can't plan to pass stuff on to their kids.

 

[FXjohn]

http://business.time.com/2012/01/05/the-loss-of-upward-mobility-in-the-u-s/

The Loss of Upward Mobility in the U.S.

Read more: http://business.time.com/2012/01/05/the-loss-of-upward-mobility-in-the-u-s/#ixzz2XNIT18iq

 

[Mr Nice]

FXjohn,

www.DailyJobCuts.com

What level of education do you have not to understand our country is in BIG trouble ?

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
FXjohn,

www.DailyJobCuts.com

What level of education do you have not to understand our country is in BIG trouble ?





duh. and it's not because of your Obamacare boogeyman. see my link.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: EType

He has been successful in keeping the minimum wage for restaurant workers in many states at the same level for 20 years. $2.13 an hour.

And restaurants employ 9% of America.

And they mostly sell food that contributes to health problems.

How many people are getting screwed here in the name of profit for a few?

If as a society we value things being cheap over quality, and we accept that when it comes to food, we can't complain when we get the bad results that that leads to.

What should the minimum wage be?

I would ask you: Why do you want the government to put barriers on employers to hire non/low skilled labor?

If these employees aren't productive enough to justify the higher wage, then they don't get hired.

Minimum wage is a barrier to entry and discriminates against low skilled labor.


So, Tariffs are put on goods from Third world counties (to make American manufacturers more competitive) THEN you lower the standard for American workers (to bring them in line with their Third world counterparts)
Good plan

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Then why not give them VOIP? Some plans are way cheaper than any cell phone.
My point is the free ride has to come to a stop, taxpayers and rate payers cant handle the cost anymore.



Some plans are cheaper, but most that I know are not when you put it on top of the $50/mo internet bill. And who is going to be their tech support when the internet is down and old people not knowing how to troubleshoot?

The gap between a basic voice only cell phone service (plus a dumb phone you can buy or come free with it) is very close now if you have family plan. I have a cell phone service with 4 dumb phones, blocked data and blocked text, for only $90 / month for 450 minutes and unlimited night/weekend/mobile to mobile. This is good enough for me and it is actually cheaper than 4 landline today (cost $25 each).

Yes there can be abuse if you are buying a smart phone and load up a big data plan on it while claiming lifeline service (which means you are not that broke), but that doesn't mean you cannot fix it to block the loopholes. If the lifeline plan is changed so that it cannot add data plan or any upsale possibility, then it would work well (and eliminate people wanting freebies but still want data plan).