Recent Topics
Jeweler recommendation?
by mcrn
Today at 12:45 AM
Ford 4.2L V6 Engine - Pics - Uneven varnish?
by Reddy45
Today at 12:00 AM
Purolator L14476 cut-open 12K miles
by filb14
Yesterday at 11:08 PM
Whose online - Forum Stats
by 285south
Yesterday at 10:09 PM
Which oil can go 5K without causing varnish?
by Merkava_4
Yesterday at 09:52 PM
switched oils and no more consumption
by ram_man
Yesterday at 08:31 PM
High miles but new seals - HM or straight syn?
by natenkiki2004
Yesterday at 08:30 PM
Low-friction Engine Oil
by Koz1
Yesterday at 08:22 PM
Changing my opinion on CVTs - I kind of like them!
by Miller88
Yesterday at 08:00 PM
Recent discovery about MAC sockets
by Merkava_4
Yesterday at 07:29 PM
Last Night's Dinner
by Pop_Rivit
Yesterday at 06:06 PM
Holiday Roadtrip To-Do's
by gathermewool
Yesterday at 05:58 PM
Newest Members
consolidated, mike_a, dlayman, BRader, GuySir
52259 Registered Users
Who's Online
28 registered (Charlie1935, BA335iS, david_ES2, burch2217, Batmanj30, d00df00d, 1 invisible), 565 Guests and 186 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
52259 Members
66 Forums
223770 Topics
3549080 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#3045195 - 06/25/13 09:54 PM ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF?
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The car in question is an Alfa Romeo 159 JTD which has a diesel version with DPF of the Fiat 2.4L 5 cylinder petrol engine. The oil recommended for this car in the manual is Selenia WR 5w40 which is only ACEA A3/B4 rated, not C3. This engine has a history of EGR and DPF problems.

I suspect this was recommended as the engine has a basic cam over hydraulic bucket valve train as per the petrol design.

So my question is what is a good oil to use for this application, something that will protect the DPF and the valve train. Is a Modern C3 oil up to the task?

Top
#3045213 - 06/25/13 10:12 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26519
Loc: Michigan
Maybe M1 ESP 5w-30 or 5w-40, if you can get it over there.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

Top
#3045257 - 06/25/13 11:06 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: Quattro Pete]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Yes we can get ESP 5w30

Maybe this is the answer, any ACEA C3 2012 rated oil.


I found this on a Caltex PDS,

In December 2012, ACEA amended its some of its definitions such that ACEA C3 has become mutually exclusive with ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4. The changes were made to emphasize the fact that today, the ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 Sequences are primarily intended for applications where lower quality, higher sulfur content fuels are in use.

Thus ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 claims are no longer made for Havoline Fully Synthetic C3 SAE 5W30, which is primarily an ACEA C3 oil. However, it remains suitable for use in those applications calling for ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4 oils where it has previously been used, and where low sulfur fuels are being burned

Top
#3045565 - 06/26/13 09:57 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: Atlanta,GA
C3 is an add-on cert to A3/B4. You'll never find C3 only oil.
_________________________
'15 435i - Factory fill.
'10 335d (sold)

Top
#3045588 - 06/26/13 10:14 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: BMWTurboDzl]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26519
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
C3 is an add-on cert to A3/B4. You'll never find C3 only oil.

M1 esp 5w30 carries acea c2/c3 spec only.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

Top
#3045824 - 06/26/13 12:00 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: Quattro Pete]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1363
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
C3 is an add-on cert to A3/B4. You'll never find C3 only oil.

M1 esp 5w30 carries acea c2/c3 spec only.
True but aren't all the OEM specs essentially layered on top of A3/B4?
_________________________
'15 435i - Factory fill.
'10 335d (sold)

Top
#3046101 - 06/26/13 04:23 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27314
Loc: a prisoner island
Nope, as per supercity's quoting of the Caltex C3, they can't list the A/B alongside the C3...best they can say is "suitable for".

Top
#3046699 - 06/27/13 05:25 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: Shannow]
MAHLE_Collector Offline


Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 40
Loc: Hungary
If You can get the Selenia WR 5w30 which is C2 it will be the best. I'm using it in my Fiorino 1.3 MJET with almost zero consumption on a 10-12k km OCI.

ELF Solaris DPF 5w30 would be another good one. By the way I don't know the Aussie market.
_________________________
My Unit Is Metric

Top
#3046738 - 06/27/13 06:33 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
With a A3/B4 original spec I would not use a C2 oil.

Selenia is dealer only and frightfully expensive. Elf is not a retail product but it can be bought.

Top
#3046842 - 06/27/13 08:26 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
MAHLE_Collector Offline


Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 40
Loc: Hungary
Originally Posted By: supercity
With a A3/B4 original spec I would not use a C2 oil.

Selenia is dealer only and frightfully expensive. Elf is not a retail product but it can be bought.

I can't exactly see Your equality between the two. C2 should be fine it is not obsolete spec and IIRC the only difference compared to C3 is HTHS viscosity. As I know A5/B5 HTHS is 2.9-3.5 mPas and C2 is above 2.9 so with my logic it meets the A3/B4 class.

But yes the prices are in the sky here too.
_________________________
My Unit Is Metric

Top
#3046877 - 06/27/13 08:54 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The HTHS viscosity is what I was worried about. The petrol 2.4 engine required A3. I wouldn't want to use a lower viscosity lube in the petrol engine let alone a diesel.

There are a number of Selenia 5w40 C3 oils but Id rather use something else due to cost.

Top
#3047377 - 06/27/13 04:48 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 27314
Loc: a prisoner island
C2 is >2.9 HTHS, while C3 is >3.5, so they aren't even close.

Magnatec diesel 5W-40 could fir the bill maybe.

Top
#3060342 - 07/10/13 08:07 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
giblets Offline


Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 3
Loc: UK
I've got almost identical engine to this (the 1.9 diesel JTDM) in my 159 (identical except 4 cylinders instead of 5!).
I'm currently running Mobile 1 new Life, 0w-40 and drive around 20,000 miles (32km) a year, mostly motorway.
I've also Blocked up my EGR and removed the DPF (stopped regens, but not mapped the power).

Any comments or recommendations on using the 0w-40, or thoughts on whether to go 5w-30? I'm trying to change the oil at 10,000 (16km) miles instead of the 'recommend' 20,000.

Would this recommendation change if it was less motorway? Live in the UK, so mild weather, usually down to -5/10c...-20F in winter, and up to 30c/ 86F in the summer.

many thanks

Top
#3060371 - 07/10/13 08:33 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Hi and welcome to BITOG

The 1.9 JTDM is quite a different engine to the 5 cylinder. They come 8V and 16V and are based on the older 1.9L 8V diesel as found in the Tipo. AFAIK it requires a 5w30 C3 oil. However since you have removed the DPF an ACEA A3/B3 B4 oil would be fine or better and that is what you are using. I wouldn't want to go 20,000 miles either, not with a PCMO.

Top
#3062618 - 07/12/13 01:39 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
giblets Offline


Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 3
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: supercity


an ACEA A3/B3 B4 oil would be fine or better and that is what you are using. I wouldn't want to go 20,000 miles either, not with a PCMO.


Many thanks, out of interest why would a ACEA A3/B3 B4 be better? Or was it just a general comment about getting better quality for the same money? Still have a lot to learn on oil!
thanks

Top
#3062660 - 07/12/13 06:15 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: giblets]
DS9 Offline


Registered: 07/10/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Belgrade, Serbia, Europe
Originally Posted By: giblets
I've got almost identical engine to this (the 1.9 diesel JTDM) in my 159 (identical except 4 cylinders instead of 5!).

Any comments or recommendations on using the 0w-40, or thoughts on whether to go 5w-30? I'm trying to change the oil at 10,000 (16km) miles instead of the 'recommend' 20,000.

Would this recommendation change if it was less motorway? Live in the UK, so mild weather, usually down to -5/10c...-20F in winter, and up to 30c/ 86F in the summer.


Hello World,

if this was mine, and if I`ve lived in UK - I`ll choose (as bp`s castrol is domestic) Castrol Edge 5W-30, or even Edge 0W-30 (longer OCI, but wouldn`t go more than 20,000 km).

Well, with or without dpf/fap - I believe it would be fine. Especially if it was less motorway, and need for better fuel economy.

Oil consumption with present 0W-40?
Less than one liter(quart)/15,000 km - and I`ll definitely go for 5W-30 or 0W-30.


Good luck


Edited by DS9 (07/12/13 06:22 AM)

Top
#3067390 - 07/16/13 06:56 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: giblets]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: giblets
Originally Posted By: supercity


an ACEA A3/B3 B4 oil would be fine or better and that is what you are using. I wouldn't want to go 20,000 miles either, not with a PCMO.


Many thanks, out of interest why would a ACEA A3/B3 B4 be better? Or was it just a general comment about getting better quality for the same money? Still have a lot to learn on oil!
thanks


Generally speaking A3/B4>C3 from a performance perspective.

A3/B4 is a "high performance" specification. ACEA C3 formulations are far more restricted than A3/B4 for the purpose of extending the life of exhaust after treatment devices. C3 oils can be formulated to "meet the performance of A3" but depending on what the engine requires, an ACEA C3 that does not necessarily meet the performance of A3/B4 may do the job just fine. Without some research its hard to know. I'm saying its better or safer to use an A3/B4 if you can, and for the the same price it should be a better lubricant.

Top
#3076271 - 07/25/13 05:20 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
bobbydavro Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 148
Loc: 3rd rock from the sun
C3 is top of the tree for performance as it also needs a M111FE result. For phy chem. Min TBN of 6 but max ash of 0.8% ( limiting oil to 7.7-8.1 TBN)

Since ACEA 2012 the A3/B4 min TBN is 10.

The actual performance requirements are now the same, although the new L-105 LTPT isn't required on A3/B4 oils.

for the Op. 5W-40s would be my preference in VW PD unless its on 507 of course. VW 505 01 is aligned with C3 now and VW specify a max Ash of 0.8 %

Top
#3084263 - 08/03/13 04:41 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: bobbydavro]
FNQ Offline


Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Cairns,Queensland,Australia
Hi
C3 low SAPS oil recommended

i have a DPF diesel in a Nissan X Trail ( 2 LITRE Renault engine) that has low SAPs requirements ( Car is an SUV similar to Nissan Rogue in usa (diff engine)

Found 3 suitable c3 LOW ASH syn oils
Shell Helix ultra Extra,
Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 ,
Castrol SLX ProfesSional formula Powerflow 5W30

These are Australian specs , I note that AUSt NISSAN only have 10000km (not miles)/ 6month service interval whereas in UK the warranty approved service schedule is 18000 mile or 12 month service interval

, local dealers say cannot compare as operate in different fuel and oil environments (hooey)

Top
#3092276 - 08/11/13 06:13 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: FNQ]
DS9 Offline


Registered: 07/10/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Belgrade, Serbia, Europe
From that three, I`d use M1, and I think it would be great.

But, you can also try Elf oils, especially if it is Renault`s engine. Total (elf) is very present in Australia.
http://www.totaloil.com.au/Pages/australia.nsf/VS_OPM/C0377B9EE8D259D1C1257951002BA39F


I mean preferably:

Elf Solaris FE 5W-30
http://www.totaloil.com.au/Pages/content/NT00013852.pdf

Key word is - RN0720 laugh



Top
#3120249 - 09/10/13 07:50 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
FNQ Offline


Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Cairns,Queensland,Australia
What did you go?

Top
#3148012 - 10/07/13 03:23 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
giblets Offline


Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 3
Loc: UK
Other questions, does the recomended oil change over the life of the engine (especially when newer and 'tighter'?)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >