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#3045195 - 06/25/13 09:54 PM ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF?
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 890
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The car in question is an Alfa Romeo 159 JTD which has a diesel version with DPF of the Fiat 2.4L 5 cylinder petrol engine. The oil recommended for this car in the manual is Selenia WR 5w40 which is only ACEA A3/B4 rated, not C3. This engine has a history of EGR and DPF problems.

I suspect this was recommended as the engine has a basic cam over hydraulic bucket valve train as per the petrol design.

So my question is what is a good oil to use for this application, something that will protect the DPF and the valve train. Is a Modern C3 oil up to the task?

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#3045213 - 06/25/13 10:12 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25921
Loc: Michigan
Maybe M1 ESP 5w-30 or 5w-40, if you can get it over there.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3045257 - 06/25/13 11:06 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: Quattro Pete]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 890
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Yes we can get ESP 5w30

Maybe this is the answer, any ACEA C3 2012 rated oil.


I found this on a Caltex PDS,

In December 2012, ACEA amended its some of its definitions such that ACEA C3 has become mutually exclusive with ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4. The changes were made to emphasize the fact that today, the ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 Sequences are primarily intended for applications where lower quality, higher sulfur content fuels are in use.

Thus ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 claims are no longer made for Havoline Fully Synthetic C3 SAE 5W30, which is primarily an ACEA C3 oil. However, it remains suitable for use in those applications calling for ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4 oils where it has previously been used, and where low sulfur fuels are being burned

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#3045565 - 06/26/13 09:57 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1289
Loc: Atlanta,GA
C3 is an add-on cert to A3/B4. You'll never find C3 only oil.
_________________________
'15 435i - Factory fill.
'10 335d (sold)

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#3045588 - 06/26/13 10:14 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: BMWTurboDzl]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25921
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
C3 is an add-on cert to A3/B4. You'll never find C3 only oil.

M1 esp 5w30 carries acea c2/c3 spec only.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3045824 - 06/26/13 12:00 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: Quattro Pete]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1289
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
C3 is an add-on cert to A3/B4. You'll never find C3 only oil.

M1 esp 5w30 carries acea c2/c3 spec only.
True but aren't all the OEM specs essentially layered on top of A3/B4?
_________________________
'15 435i - Factory fill.
'10 335d (sold)

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#3046101 - 06/26/13 04:23 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26815
Loc: a prison island
Nope, as per supercity's quoting of the Caltex C3, they can't list the A/B alongside the C3...best they can say is "suitable for".

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#3046699 - 06/27/13 05:25 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: Shannow]
MAHLE_Collector Offline


Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 40
Loc: Hungary
If You can get the Selenia WR 5w30 which is C2 it will be the best. I'm using it in my Fiorino 1.3 MJET with almost zero consumption on a 10-12k km OCI.

ELF Solaris DPF 5w30 would be another good one. By the way I don't know the Aussie market.
_________________________
My Unit Is Metric

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#3046738 - 06/27/13 06:33 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 890
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
With a A3/B4 original spec I would not use a C2 oil.

Selenia is dealer only and frightfully expensive. Elf is not a retail product but it can be bought.

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#3046842 - 06/27/13 08:26 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
MAHLE_Collector Offline


Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 40
Loc: Hungary
Originally Posted By: supercity
With a A3/B4 original spec I would not use a C2 oil.

Selenia is dealer only and frightfully expensive. Elf is not a retail product but it can be bought.

I can't exactly see Your equality between the two. C2 should be fine it is not obsolete spec and IIRC the only difference compared to C3 is HTHS viscosity. As I know A5/B5 HTHS is 2.9-3.5 mPas and C2 is above 2.9 so with my logic it meets the A3/B4 class.

But yes the prices are in the sky here too.
_________________________
My Unit Is Metric

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#3046877 - 06/27/13 08:54 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 890
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The HTHS viscosity is what I was worried about. The petrol 2.4 engine required A3. I wouldn't want to use a lower viscosity lube in the petrol engine let alone a diesel.

There are a number of Selenia 5w40 C3 oils but Id rather use something else due to cost.

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#3047377 - 06/27/13 04:48 PM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26815
Loc: a prison island
C2 is >2.9 HTHS, while C3 is >3.5, so they aren't even close.

Magnatec diesel 5W-40 could fir the bill maybe.

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#3060342 - 07/10/13 08:07 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
giblets Offline


Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 3
Loc: UK
I've got almost identical engine to this (the 1.9 diesel JTDM) in my 159 (identical except 4 cylinders instead of 5!).
I'm currently running Mobile 1 new Life, 0w-40 and drive around 20,000 miles (32km) a year, mostly motorway.
I've also Blocked up my EGR and removed the DPF (stopped regens, but not mapped the power).

Any comments or recommendations on using the 0w-40, or thoughts on whether to go 5w-30? I'm trying to change the oil at 10,000 (16km) miles instead of the 'recommend' 20,000.

Would this recommendation change if it was less motorway? Live in the UK, so mild weather, usually down to -5/10c...-20F in winter, and up to 30c/ 86F in the summer.

many thanks

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#3060371 - 07/10/13 08:33 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
supercity Offline


Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 890
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Hi and welcome to BITOG

The 1.9 JTDM is quite a different engine to the 5 cylinder. They come 8V and 16V and are based on the older 1.9L 8V diesel as found in the Tipo. AFAIK it requires a 5w30 C3 oil. However since you have removed the DPF an ACEA A3/B3 B4 oil would be fine or better and that is what you are using. I wouldn't want to go 20,000 miles either, not with a PCMO.

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#3062618 - 07/12/13 01:39 AM Re: ACEA A3/B4 recomendation for engine with DPF? [Re: supercity]
giblets Offline


Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 3
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: supercity


an ACEA A3/B3 B4 oil would be fine or better and that is what you are using. I wouldn't want to go 20,000 miles either, not with a PCMO.


Many thanks, out of interest why would a ACEA A3/B3 B4 be better? Or was it just a general comment about getting better quality for the same money? Still have a lot to learn on oil!
thanks

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