Oil industry loses legal battle to block E15

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On Monday, the Supreme Court rejected a challenge by the American Petroleum Institute, the oil industry’s chief lobbying group, to block sales of E15. The justices left in place a federal appeals court ruling that dismissed challenges by the oil industry group and trade associations representing food producers, restaurants and others.

It's coming!

http://www.ogj.com/articles/2013/06/us-s...15-rollout.html

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/jun/25/higher-ethanol-blend-may-spread-as-big-oil-loses/
 
I can guarantee that when we start seeing vehicles coming in with misfires and drivability concerns, we are going to take fuel samples and deny warranty coverage for any vehicles where the ethanol percentage exceeds 10%. We will then tell the customer that the only way to get reimbursed will be if the gas station wants to cover their bill.
 
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As furious as I'd be if I had to fill my car with E15, I also don't like it when things are held from the market unless there's a VERY good reason. The oil industry was trying to keep E15 from the market when a lot of cars can run with E85, so I can't say I'm sad that they lost.

If there ever is a push to make E15 mandatory, that's when I'll be happy to see a fight.
 
Just wish I could find pure gasoline at all...for some of my cars, I would gladly pay the difference...but even the marinas nearby are selling E10...
 
Spoke with a Canada gov't rep in charge of fuel regulations at a fleet conference last week. No plans in introducing E15 to Canada.

But being the gov't, you never know .....
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If there ever is a push to make E15 mandatory, that's when I'll be happy to see a fight.


This is just the first step. That's how our government works; they're masters at boiling the frog. I would be highly surprised if E15 didn't become mandatory about a decade from now (or less).

It still baffles me how E15 even passes the stiff test. I'm not aware of ANY non-FF car that allows for more than E10. So how is E15 even relevant? It's only relevant for FF vehicles, but you'd think they'd push E85 for those.

The EPA claims that anything made in the last decade or two or so can use E15, but until they start co-signing on powertrain warranties, I will remain an E0/E10 user.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If there ever is a push to make E15 mandatory, that's when I'll be happy to see a fight.


This is just the first step. That's how our government works; they're masters at boiling the frog. I would be highly surprised if E15 didn't become mandatory about a decade from now (or less).

It still baffles me how E15 even passes the stiff test. I'm not aware of ANY non-FF car that allows for more than E10. So how is E15 even relevant? It's only relevant for FF vehicles, but you'd think they'd push E85 for those.

The EPA claims that anything made in the last decade or two or so can use E15, but until they start co-signing on powertrain warranties, I will remain an E0/E10 user.
The EPA lies like the rest of the Federal Government. It's not the truth any longer, it's "people management". They'll walk right into the oven if you tell them the right things.
 
E15 was not an EPA idea. It and the current administration are implementing an idea forced on us by Congress (the Mid-West Corn industry).

This administration has implemented it in a way that it is not easy or desirable for a gas station to want to introduce yet another product at their stations.

Unless you are in the corn belt it is not all that easy to find E85. Those states have provided huge tax incentives for its use.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
This is just the first step.

Oh, come on. That's like calling the availability of knives the "first step" to knife violence. It does nothing to justify a ban.


Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
It still baffles me how E15 even passes the stiff test. I'm not aware of ANY non-FF car that allows for more than E10. So how is E15 even relevant? It's only relevant for FF vehicles, but you'd think they'd push E85 for those.

For E15 to be bannable, being sub-optimal isn't enough. It has to be positively harmful. Is it?


Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The EPA claims that anything made in the last decade or two or so can use E15, but until they start co-signing on powertrain warranties, I will remain an E0/E10 user.

Here, I agree.
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Are they making it mandatory?


Yes. From the Spokesman article linked in the 1st post:

"The dispute over E15 is the latest flashpoint in a long-standing battle over the Renewable Fuel Standard, approved by Congress in 2005 and amended in 2007. The law requires refiners to blend increasing amounts of ethanol into gasoline each year as a way to decrease reliance on fossil fuels and lower greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming.

The Environmental Protection Agency has proposed a 16.5 billion-gallon production requirement for ethanol and other gasoline alternatives this year, up from 15.2 billion gallons last year. By 2022, the law calls for more than double that amount."

Here's more out-of-control social planning by our gooberment, mandating that we get less and less energy for our dollar when we buy fuel. Since E85 has been a complete flop on the market, the EPA has decided to force ethanol on us by mandating that its percentage be increased in all gasoline. So if they require E15 now to consume the mandated production of ethanol, will we be up to E30 by the time we get to 2022, and the mandated production is doubled? Isn't it nice how the gooberment is mandating that certain production requirements of a given product be attained? Shades of the old USSR and their five-year plans. Apparently we're going to get the ethanol whether we want it or not.

In the current political situation, is there any difference between the EPA proposing a rule or just imposing it? Congress is divided and weak, and cannot or will not stop them. The EPA can just go through the motions of proposing a rule and soliciting public comments, but since there is no oversight or public accountability, they'll just say the public is all for it, and go ahead with the rules. Unelected bureaucrats are now running our economy.
 
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
That's how our government works; they're masters at boiling the frog.


This has my vote for quote of the day!
 
This case wasn't about the requirement to increase ethanol in gasoline. It was about blocking the sale of E15 entirely.
 
PLEASE tell me we have different-sized nozzles a la Diesel!

IIRC, you can put gas in diesel, but not diesel in gas, without an adapter.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Just wish I could find pure gasoline at all...for some of my cars, I would gladly pay the difference...but even the marinas nearby are selling E10...


We have a few places around here that sell ethanol free 93. I tried it once in the Cherokee to see what the mileage difference would be.
Got horrible mileage.
 
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
PLEASE tell me we have different-sized nozzles a la Diesel!

IIRC, you can put gas in diesel, but not diesel in gas, without an adapter.


Not true. Any size nozzle can go on any fuel pump. Plenty of filling stations (most notably truck stops) have "RV" diesel pumps that actually have a gasoline fill nozzle (13/16") instead of the typical 'slow-flow' diesel nozzle (15/16") or a 'fast-flow' diesel nozzle (1"+).
 
I don't think there have been different nozzle diameters since the days of leaded fuel being sold at the same time as unleaded.
 
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