Rotella 15w40, 2,650 miles in an '87 Ferrari 328

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From a quick search, this appears to be the first UOA from a Ferrari on BITOG, so history is being made!
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I acquired an '87 Ferrari 328 GTS earlier this year and thought I'd see how the oil is doing (I was going to do it pre-purchase, but didn't have time). The car runs strong and is a blast to drive -- a V-8 with an 8,000 rpm redline from 26 years ago! The car had ~35,500 miles on it when the sample was taken, and about 2,650 miles on the Rotella 15w40 dino oil that was in it (the preferred pour of my local independent Ferrari mechanic).

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Ted

PS: I know it's not SOP to post a photo of the cars here, but it somehow seems appropriate in this case...
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Not a first Ferrari UOA on BITOG, but congrats on an awesome car and thanks for sharing the UOA!

Has this engine always been running on mineral oil?
 
What a beauty! I love those cars. You have a nice italian roster I see. Keep up the good work!
 
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Ahhhh, thanks QP, didn't realize BITOG defaulted to a 1 month search range... D'oh. Now I now see there's even an old 328 UOA from 2006 without the same high copper results (though that oil got sheared to [censored]).

In any case, I do have all the service records for this car and it appears it has always ingested dino oil -- technically, some of the early Ferrari dealer records just report '20w50 bulk oil' but I'm pretty sure the Ferrari dealer wasn't putting in synthetic for $3.28/qt (I'm actually surprised they didn't change more for dino oil). Some later dealer records cite Exxon Superflo and Mobil 20w50, but the indy Ferrari mechanic (Alex Traverso for those in the know) who started to service the car about 5 years ago used Castrol 20w50 until they changed their formulation... now he's all about the Rotella. I asked about switching to full-synth, and he said that's a great idea if you want the oil all over the floor (fluid retention probs for synth oil a common refrain from other vintage Ferrari owners).

This car had its last change a bit over two years ago, and I topped it up with 2 extra quarts after this sample (it was just within the min range on the dipstick -- the car takes 11 quarts). The Rotella does indeed operate at the recommended oil pressure and temps spec'ed by Ferrari, both in the colder temps from earlier this year to the 110-degree [censored] we're in now.

Ted
 
Awesome car! There is a forum where you can post more pictures near the bottom of the main forum page. Give us something to drool over!
 
Originally Posted By: TedMeyer
I asked about switching to full-synth, and he said that's a great idea if you want the oil all over the floor (fluid retention probs for synth oil a common refrain from other vintage Ferrari owners).

This car had its last change a bit over two years ago, and I topped it up with 2 extra quarts after this sample (it was just within the min range on the dipstick -- the car takes 11 quarts). The Rotella does indeed operate at the recommended oil pressure and temps spec'ed by Ferrari, both in the colder temps from earlier this year to the 110-degree [censored] we're in now.Ted

Friend of mine has an an earlier 308 and has no problem with oil leals nor maintaining oil pressure on M1 0W-40.
I'd definitely be running a modern syn' oil.
I'd suggest switching to M1 0W-40, but fill to the minimum level only. Take the car for a run to bring the oil up to temperature and check your oil pressure. If it is lower than spec' which I doubt (what are the OP spec's?) then you could top up with some M1 15W-50 instead of more 0W-40.
 
I dunno, nothing in this report is making me wish I had synthetic oil in the sump, especially given the low miles this car will likely see (including track miles, eventually).

The UOA's I see for 3X8's with Mobil 1 0w40 seem to show excessive shearing, FWIW, though I know it's getting good enough results with the WRX crowd that I'd be willing to try in in my Subie.

Ted
 
You ought to consider changing your "handle" to TedMAGNUMMeyer, IMHO!

Nice ride: where did you actually find it?

Cheers!

p.s. My 1st ride in a Ferrari was in 1965 from Dayton to Cincinnati for a Reds game. It seemed to me we got there about 15 minutes before we left (it just didn't take long enough!), and I was not able to get to ride home in the Ferrari but in the Caddy "chase car" with the rest of the group.

Something I'll never forget.
 
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I had been tracking first 308 and then 328 auctions for years and years on eBay, but my purchase kept getting waylaid by life events. I found one locally here in the Phoenix area on eBay in Jan/Feb of this year (moved here almost 3 yrs ago), coincidentally owned by another Ted -- and he actually has the Magnum height and mustache... just missing the Detroit Tigers hat. So I got to meet the owner and see the car in person, fire it up, and talk to the mechanic who had been maintaining it... gave me much more comfort to pull the trigger.
 
That pic looks straight out of the 1980's....just awesome!

Personally, I'd run syn in it...IF you like Rotella, consider the T6 5W-40, or even the new T6 0W-40.
 
Originally Posted By: TedMeyer
I dunno, nothing in this report is making me wish I had synthetic oil in the sump, especially given the low miles this car will likely see (including track miles, eventually).

The UOA's I see for 3X8's with Mobil 1 0w40 seem to show excessive shearing, FWIW, though I know it's getting good enough results with the WRX crowd that I'd be willing to try in in my Subie.Ted

M1 0W-40 does not shear excessively, besides you have an oil pressure gauge to monitor any gradual loss of viscosity.
Or as addyguy suggested Rotella 5W-40 or 0W-40 which are somewhat heavier.

Ferrari has only specified synthetic oil for years and if they are anything like Porsche have back spec'd it to your '87 MY as Porsche has done to my '86 928.
 
Originally Posted By: TedMeyer
In any case, I do have all the service records for this car and it appears it has always ingested dino oil -- technically, some of the early Ferrari dealer records just report '20w50 bulk oil' but I'm pretty sure the Ferrari dealer wasn't putting in synthetic for $3.28/qt (I'm actually surprised they didn't change more for dino oil). Some later dealer records cite Exxon Superflo and Mobil 20w50, but the indy Ferrari mechanic (Alex Traverso for those in the know) who started to service the car about 5 years ago used Castrol 20w50 until they changed their formulation... now he's all about the Rotella. I asked about switching to full-synth, and he said that's a great idea if you want the oil all over the floor (fluid retention probs for synth oil a common refrain from other vintage Ferrari owners).

Ted

Hi Ted, Welcome to BITOG!
Do you know why Alex Traverso recommended the 20w-50 earlier and now the 15w-40, both "thicker-at-startup" oils ?
Is it perhaps also to maintain proper protection during the hot 110F summer climate ?
Regards.
 
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: TedMeyer
In any case, I do have all the service records for this car and it appears it has always ingested dino oil -- technically, some of the early Ferrari dealer records just report '20w50 bulk oil' but I'm pretty sure the Ferrari dealer wasn't putting in synthetic for $3.28/qt (I'm actually surprised they didn't change more for dino oil). Some later dealer records cite Exxon Superflo and Mobil 20w50, but the indy Ferrari mechanic (Alex Traverso for those in the know) who started to service the car about 5 years ago used Castrol 20w50 until they changed their formulation... now he's all about the Rotella. I asked about switching to full-synth, and he said that's a great idea if you want the oil all over the floor (fluid retention probs for synth oil a common refrain from other vintage Ferrari owners).

Ted

Hi Ted, Welcome to BITOG!
Do you know why Alex Traverso recommended the 20w-50 earlier and now the 15w-40, both "thicker-at-startup" oils ?
Is it perhaps also to maintain proper protection during the hot 110F summer climate ?
Regards.

Well that's nonsense.
Even a 0W-20 is still too heavy on start-up at 110F.
With the exception of some mechanics on BITOG, very few really understand motor oil and more often than not adhere to some well entrenched motor oil myths.
 
Ferrari spec'ed Agip 10w50 from the factory, which is no longer available. The Ferrari dealer here is using 20w50 dino oil (at least they did in my car), my current (highly regarded) Ferrari mechanic (Alex) recommends the Rotella 15w40 dino oil, and I know Andy Falbo (another highly regarded indy Ferrari mechanic in nearby Fountain Hills) was using 20w50 Castrol dino oil in a cohort's 308 as of a month ago.

So I've got unanimous consensus from the Ferrari experts locally to use dino oil, a UOA that shows the dino oil is working well, my oil pressure is right on the money, and nobody has yet provided an actual reason to convert to synthetic oil. So I don't see a reason to change at the moment. From searching, it looks like 100% of the Ferrari 3X8 UOAs on BITOG using M1 0w40 show excessive shearing (granted, these are older UOAs), so that would probably be the last oil I would use in my 328. I've had good luck with Motul 8100 in my WRX (UOAs posted), so I'd be inclined to start there if I made the change.

fpracha - I didn't ask Alex why he switched. In my research I saw that the additive package in the 20w50 he had been using changed to lower zinc/phos right around that time, which using the Rotella would address, so I assumed that was the reason.

Ted
 
Aloha, Ted,

I'm guessing at least one of those old UOAs showing that Mobil 1 0W-40 sheared badly in a 328 was mine.

You are correct that your owner's manual specifies a 10W-50 motor oil. In mid-1988 Ferrari issued a service bulletin recommending a change to 10W-40 for Europe and 10W-40, 15W-40, or 15W-50 for "other countries". In late 1997 Ferrari issued another service bulletin recommending 5W-40 for all Ferrari past and present but noting that "Due to weather conditions in some countries" 15W-50 was allowed.

I am using Chevron Delo 5W-40 in my car and think it's suited fine for my environment and usage. But it seems to me you can safely use just about any good quality motor oil in the xW-40/50 range.

By the way, I use the Baldwin B 253 oil filter.
 
marco here's your M1 SL 0W-40 UOA from 2006:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...3160#Post253160

I wouldn't consider a KV100 of 11.28cSt as excessive oil shear and besides the UOA was good.
Of course the current SN oil is both heavier (higher HTHSV of 3.85cP) and more shear stable.

As you have pointed out Ferrari have back spec'd to the 5W-40 grade or more specifically Shell Helix (Pennzoil) Ultra 5W-40 which has the same HTHSV as M1 0W-40.
 
Caterham,

Thank you for finding the old UOA and thread. I had thought them long gone. I would have no problem using the newer M1 0W-40 formulation in the Ferrari 328. However, I'm trying to rationalize my oil inventory to support the vehicles listed below as well as a couple of diesel tractors, a diesel generator, a gasoline generator, and other odds and ends. In a few months I will have worked through an overhang of various oils to have left only Chevron Delo 5W-40, 10W-30, and 15W-40. Oh, yeah, in addition I'm kind of stuck needing a 0W-20 for my wife's Honda. Pouring Delo into it would doubtless be a bad idea.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Originally Posted By: TedMeyer

So I've got unanimous consensus from the Ferrari experts locally to use dino oil, a UOA that shows the dino oil is working well, my oil pressure is right on the money, and nobody has yet provided an actual reason to convert to synthetic oil. So I don't see a reason to change at the moment. From searching, it looks like 100% of the Ferrari 3X8 UOAs on BITOG using M1 0w40 show excessive shearing (granted, these are older UOAs), so that would probably be the last oil I would use in my 328. I've had good luck with Motul 8100 in my WRX (UOAs posted), so I'd be inclined to start there if I made the change.

fpracha - I didn't ask Alex why he switched. In my research I saw that the additive package in the 20w50 he had been using changed to lower zinc/phos right around that time, which using the Rotella would address, so I assumed that was the reason.

Ted

Thanks Ted!
This goes to prove that a high VI is usually less important than the overall additive package and quality of the basestocks in a finished engine oil...
 
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