Rotella T6 5w-40; 3k miles; Duramax LML 17k miles

[HIC]

Hi All,
I am new to the forum and could use some help with my UOA report. My rig is a 2011 LML with roughly 17,000 miles. I ran T6 for just under 3k miles and changed the oil to get my sample, to baseline this engine for testing and hopefully to extent my OCI. However, the results have me somewhat worried as Blackstone called out several areas to watch.

I took my sample cold and did not know better until after the sample was in. I know there is a ton of knowledge on this board and hope to get some insight on my numbers. I have ordered a vacuum pump for the next sample and will take that hot. I did let about half the oil drain before taking this first sample but again it was cold.

"Comments: A few wear metals are on the high side in this sample from your GMC. Aluminum normally shows piston wear, but could be from other sources too, especially since chrome from rings is nice and low. Potassium can show coolant, but we sometimes see it along with potassium in newer diesels. It can come from the emissions system in that case. Iron is from steel parts and copper is from brass/bronze parts. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 7,000 miles on the oil. The TBN was strong at 5.1. Run 3,000 miles again and check back.

Aluminum 23
Chromium 1
Iron 30
Copper 27
Lead 2
Tin 0
Molybdenum 23
Nickel 0
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 69
Boron 34
Silicon 14
Sodium 9
Calcium 1366
Magnesium 1004
Phosphorus 1133
Zinc 1350
Barium 0

Properties are all in line. And I did not add any oil before the sample. Sorry for the long post. Again, any input is appreciated.

 

[EddieCairns]

You have highish aluminium and copper as well as highish iron.

The oil it's self is in good condition after 3k re the TBN but you did not mention your viscosity.

Either take their advice and re sample after 3k or it's your rig do you want to push it to 5k and assume these are just one off highish readings.

You are the only one who can chose, decisions, decisons!

eddie

 

[tig1]

Instead of asking us about UOAs, my advise is to read all the articles on UOAs found in the articles section at the home base of BITOG. All you will get is opinions from the membership, and that is mostly wrong, but the real help is from the articles.

 

[Jim Allen]

Good advice from Tig just above but yours is not a stellar UOA considering the low 3K run. The cold sample could have something to do with the high numbers, as the contamination could be more dense when the oil is not mixed well. At 17K miles, your engine may still have some breaking in to do. The results may also speak to the operating environment. Tomball isn't exactly cold weather country, but short hopping can produce worse wear numbers because the oil never gets fully warmed up and wear is higher in the warmup phase.

All that taken into consideration, I think you need to sample again. Maybe more than once. More than likely, this is just a blurry snapshot, as most single UOAs are, and not meaningful... especially since there was a sampling error. With a few more samples, the picture should get clearer. In the meantime, study up on how to get a good sample and make sure you do the next time.

Welcome to BITOG!

 

[HIC]

I have been reading up all morning between meetings and plan to get a good sample with the vacuum right at 3k. Thanks for the replies, a wealth of knowledge here for sure.

 

[dnewton3]

First - welcome to the site.

Now, as a fellow Dmax owner (I have an LBZ) I can shed some light onto this, but I can also offers some suggestions.

I have written two articles for BITOG; one on how a UOA is processed and one about how to interpret it. Please read both. You'll get a lot of info about how to understand what can and cannot be gleaned from UOAs, and how. Additionally, I used the Dmax engine as part of the study group for the article; you can find much info there.

Next, as this is a newer vehicle, as Jim called out, this is likely break in. Not knowing how many OCIs you've run so far, there is no way to know if you've flushed out the initial wear metals or not.

I would suggest starting out with decent brand (of your choice) of conventional lube. Any CJ-4 licensed product is a good place to start. Buy enough for a few oil changes; the fewer changes in inputs the better, and lube brand/grade shifts can effect UOAs a bit, so don't muddy the water with jumping around. Run your OCI/UOA combination out to around 6k miles; that is near the universal average for Blackstone and will give a good comparison start point. Also, using the vacuum pump is good, but you can also consider using a Fumoto valve; this allows you to leave the engine running and take a "live" sample (as good as it gets generally; use due care being under a running vehicle!). It is NOT a necessity, just a luxury.

Most all of the folks just sample after getting the engine fully warmed up, and then filling the bottle "mid stream" (your estimate of not too soon and not too late) while it drains into the pan. Catch the fluid as it comes from the crankcase before it hits the drain bucket. That way, when warm, the fluid is fully mixed. Also, "mid stream" ensures that the fluid is neither overloaded with anything that has settled, nor a 'drip-drip' tailing.

Lastly, if you intend to post UOAs often, consider using the text-block tool. It's wonderful when you want to show many UOAs in reference to each other. Links exist for how to use it.

I'm going to move your UOA to the proper forum, and retitle it so that it follows our posting convention (makes for easy searching later).

Again - welcome!

 

[HIC]

Thanks, DNewton! I just looked at the Fumoto valve on Youtube and it looks like a must have! This DMAX rains on me now.. Also, as long as the engine is running I can take a sample without draining any first, or 'mid stream' without worrying about contamination?

I just finished the fist article you wrote and I am very impressed. I believe I understand the basics but I definitely have a lot to learn.

 

[dnewton3]

When I use my Fumoto for a live sample, I do the following:
1) warm up engine with a good drive cycle
2) park in level drive; veh in park with parking-brake set; leave engine running (safety is paramount! double check!)
3) obtain sample bottle and small pliers and clean rag and spray can brake cleaner
4) don safety goggles
5) crawl under veh
6) spray and wipe Fumoto clean, especially in the port area, but also all around so that you don't knock "dirt" into your sample; allow area to dry; assure it's clean
7) use pliers to touch Fumoto handle (it's Hot!)
8) open valve; take sample (no need to drain any first as this is "live" and well mixed already)
9) close valve; cover sample bottle
10) exit from under vehicle; shut down veh
11) put stuff away; prepare sample for mailing
12) consume self-congratulatory carbonated grain-based alcoholoic beverage

Now - some people would rightly debate the fact that a true "live" samples comes from a presurized circuit and not the sump, and I would not disagree. But I have no intention of adding an extra port valve in pressure pathway, then having to tame the 30 psi my Dmax has at idle, and trying to harness and corral that hot oil stream into a bottle smaller in size than my kids sippy-tippy cup ... Doing a hot sample at the sump drain is good enough for me in this situation.


That about covers it ...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Instead of asking us about UOAs, my advise is to read all the articles on UOAs found in the articles section at the home base of BITOG. All you will get is opinions from the membership, and that is mostly wrong, but the real help is from the articles.



Very good,and pretty much accurate advice. We here at bitog mostly answer with our hearts. Fortunately you have a couple of our most knowledgable members already in your thread commenting,so you are in good hands there(Dnewton and Jim Allen)
Follow their advice and you can't go wrong. Thank you for posting your data. We drool over that stuff here.

And welcome to the forum.

 

[HIC]

Thanks all.

I ran the factory oil for around 3k and then switched to Rotella T 15-40. I ran that until the computer said to change it... I thought it was way long and that is what has landed me here, and with Blackstone.

So, when that change was due I put in the T6. A friend borrowed my truck to haul a load for money (he was between jobs and needed cash). I work from home unless traveling so I just asked him to change the oil when he got back. He ran about 2500 miles and we changed it at 3k and took the posted sample.

So, the truck is on the third change right now. The first two changes used Fram filters and after reading how they are I am running Napa Gold now.

 

[HIC]

The next sample will be taken with the vacuum pump and if it shows as bad as the first I will have a good excuse to install the Fumoto valve quickly!

 

[dnewton3]

The vacuum pump is not going to be the cause of any bad UOA, unless you dredge the bottom of the pan with the end of the tube. Typically folks will touch the sample tube to the bottom of the pan gently, then lift up about 1 to 1.5 inches, and then draw the sample.

Further, don't freak if the UOA isn't what you expect immediately. As I say in my article, UOAs are tools, not toys (although you'd have a hard time convincing many BITOGers of that mantra ....) Settle on one fluid, be consistent in your approach, and let the data develop. The Dmax is one of the best-wearing light-duty diesel engines out there; you'll not be disappointed. And generally, you can easily trust the OLM; the Dmax OLM seems to be reasonbly accurate, and often even a bit conservative at times. If you follow the OLM, you'll be fine.

The Dmax really has zero preference for lube brand/grade; they run well on about any diesel rated CJ-4 lube regardless of who made it, or dino/syn, thick or thin, etc.