Proof of LC performance

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I want to believe in LC, and may even buy some more when FP3000 comes out. I'm not trying to be the snake in the grass, but can someone give me the links, the evidence, the hard proof that LC actually performs as claimed?

Noise and smoothness anecdotal testimonies will not be rejected, but some proof is nice. Was the engine cleaned? (before and after picts) Was the UOA statistically improved? (what parameters?) Were other factors eliminated?
 
I guess the only one I know of (and I'm sure you've seen it) is the report on the lubecontrol website that MolaKule submitted:

Lube Control report

Other than that, I know of no other real test of the products.

Where's lcd?
 
I thought FP60 was to keep the fuel system clean....and on dirty engines, you *might* get a slight improvement in gas mileage.


I used FP60 for the last 50K miles with no noticeable improvement in MPG. Maybe my engine was somewhat clean when I bought it with 75K miles?
dunno.gif


Even with Chevron Techron Concentrate...I saw no improvements in MPG.
 
The proof is in the UOA. There were two UOA posted some time ago where two people used dino oil and LC for 10,000 miles. Terry Dyson has also posted the benefits of Fuel Power. Since using it I have noticed a mileage increase as have others who has used it. Do a search of this section for the threads.
 
This topic is about LC, not FP.

I've actually seen a couple UOA's where there appeared to be no statistical evidence of improvement with LC, but glory is given. I have seen many (most all) where no conclusion can be drawn and I've seen a few where the oil seems to have lower native viscosity after use and maybe, just maybe the wear metals appear higher.

Hence my reason for this thread.
 
Pablo, I'm having another UOA on M1 5W-40 done right now.

Last time M1 5W-40 was used for 8k miles. No additves were added. After that an ARX cleaning and rinse was performed. I then went back to M1 5W-40. This time around FP and LC were used throughout the 8k mile OCI. I hope the UOA will allow conclusions regarding the effectiveness of any of the used additives.
 
This isn't hard proof, but for the first 2 or 3 OCIs of LC in my car, the oil got dirty (dark) real fast. Now the oil stays noticeably cleaner over a 5000 mile oci. It's not hard proof, and I'm not about to start taking my engine apart to get pictures.
 
Pablo, I am just as interested as you are in this topic. I believe in the quality of the LCD line of products, but I want to have good proof, just like the rest of us, that they work as promised.

I recently posted my 6th UOA to date. It was the first UOA with LC20 in the mix, and the results showed slight increases in Fe, Cr and Al. In all fairness, that UOA by itself is no cause for alarm as all the numbers are still relatively low. Nevertheless, it caught my attention and piqued my curiosity. I think it's safe to anyone else around here would feel the same way as I do.

A fellow member gave me a very viable explanation to the extra metal. He felt that the increase is probably caused by the LC20 just doing its job - cleaning! Before the LC20, I had been running dino oil for almost 40,000 miles (3000 OCI) without any oil additives. So I think there's a good chance that his explanation is right on the money. That being said, I shall test his theory when I draw my next UOA sample.
 
My observations echo Clement's. The first couple of intervals with LC will cause the oil to become darker faster indicating the cleaning action of the LC (solubilizing carbon).

After this, the oil will stay cleaner longer allowing for it's advertised use as an anti-oxidant. I want to shoot for 10-15k OCI's because changing oil before this mileage is stupid and wastefull. So, it seems like LC is safely allowing for this all the while keeping the engine clean.
 
quote:

Originally posted by SSDude:
The proof is in the UOA. There were two UOA posted some time ago where two people used dino oil and LC for 10,000 miles. Terry Dyson has also posted the benefits of Fuel Power. Since using it I have noticed a mileage increase as have others who has used it. Do a search of this section for the threads.

As I stated in my initial post, the proof is in the UOA. My initial comments were directed at LC.

Here is the UOA.


http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002615#000000
 
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000646#000000

Won't offer it as "proof" but it is more than anecdotal.

As for those, every vehicle I've used it on (all at least 2-years old, to 33-years old; with from 40,000 miles to as high as 120,000) showed cleaner under the valve cover oil filler cap after several thousand miles without or prior to the use of ARX.

That is, I could easily wipe some gunk up with a fingertip beforehand, and after would need one very strong fingernail to get to the varnish remaining.

All engines were straight 6's or V8's, some carb'd, some EFI. All had prior owner service records and regular oil changes; or I (or family) had owned vehicles for years before LUBE CONTROL use.

LC-20 was always used with FUEL POWER FP-60.

With respect, what level of "proof" would be satisfactory?

[ April 14, 2006, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: TheTanSedan ]
 
Well said, ThetanSedan. It seems like some people here seems to demand that you have your own laboratory to perform tests. They seem to have forgotten that BITOG is a place were you share your experiences with different additives. Many companies do extencive testing of their products before they start to sell it, but for people (like Pablo) this isn't enough. Also, it isn't enough when several people report their findings. They(Pablo and others) just sit on the fence yelling out for more proof. These people would not accept all proof in the world. The reason they act this way, is to cover their insecurity. They won't do something or buy something before everybody else are doing it. This way they feel safe. In my opinion, these kind of people is not worth arguing with, unless you have a fully equipped laboratory.
 
"these kind of people"

That's a bit harsh. I might as well talk about "those other people" who'll buy any snake oil just because the bottle looks so pretty, and "gosh-darn it, it works so well I can't believe it!" I like to see substantiated evidence or proof, backed up by hard data, but I'm also open to trying out products in an effort to find out if I see a benefit in using any particular product. Empirical and anecdotal findings are fine, but they're not objective and not evidence. That said, I'm a believer in LC20 and FP60, but I surely would like to see some hard data that support what my ears and eyes tell me.
 
Wow - how ironic! You see the irony here, no?

Thanks for the links SS and Tan. Those are the good UOA's I'm talking about. They come far and few between. But they are there.

Someone can post some of the "other" UOA's, too.

People agreeing with people doesn't always = truth, but it's worth investigating. We all have our own levels of satisfaction. I'm not necessarily asking for lab reports - heck lab reports can be faked too!

I agree that LC cleans - but honestly a lot of folks said it would clean the varnish in the old 245Ti. Did not even touch it. I used up over a half gallon of LC in that car. The car ran great, the rings sealed near perfect - 261,000 miles! But all the years I owned it, nothing - M1, Gunk Flush, Arx, Amsoil flush, Amsoil oils, LC - nothing would touch the cam cover/head varnish built up over the first 150,000 miles with dino oils.

Proof? Photos from folks I know, visuals and measurements on my own cars, lab reports - a combination is nice.
 
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