Last edited by a moderator:
China builds fastest supercomputer
- Thread starter Azeem
- Start date
- Status
Maybe the States should worry about itself more.
It's own jobs, people, and what it imports.
The US doesn't need anyone else to be a great country, it has all it needs.
China just has nothing to compute with the computer. It needs our ideas to figure out what to do with it.
I just call it how I see it.
It's own jobs, people, and what it imports.
The US doesn't need anyone else to be a great country, it has all it needs.
China just has nothing to compute with the computer. It needs our ideas to figure out what to do with it.
I just call it how I see it.
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
They "borrow" the technology sent to them by greedy US companies.
I wonder how powerful the computers are that operate within PRISM?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
You have no idea what a supercomputer is, do you?
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
You have no idea what a supercomputer is, do you?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
People in the US that want $25-50/hr factory line worker jobs to come back to US are in a delusional fantasy. No one in the US is ever gonna be paid that kind of money again for jobs that take less than a day of training and no advanced education to perform. Those days are over.
If you want to earn a good living wage in the US better get some advanced training and be prepared to hustle and never stop learning to stay a step ahead. If not you are screwed. Times they done got hard and folks better learn that lesson fast.
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
People in the US that want $25-50/hr factory line worker jobs to come back to US are in a delusional fantasy. No one in the US is ever gonna be paid that kind of money again for jobs that take less than a day of training and no advanced education to perform. Those days are over.
If you want to earn a good living wage in the US better get some advanced training and be prepared to hustle and never stop learning to stay a step ahead. If not you are screwed. Times they done got hard and folks better learn that lesson fast.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
You have no idea what a supercomputer is, do you?
+1
It is easy to build a "super computer" that are just a bunch of PCs cluster doing math in parallel, not depending on the result of each other (i.e. testing out encryption in brute force).
It is very hard to build a "super computer" that would calculate base on results that depends on each other cluster's. Every time you add additional computer, you have a dimensionally larger array of connection you need to deal with. an array of 5000 cpu is not 5x more complicate to connect than an array of 1000 cpu, but 5000x5000 - 1000x1000 = 24000000 times more possible connection between them. You can say your super computer is powerful, but it is useless if you don't factor in how you measure your power (doing sequential work or a lot completely independent work). It is like saying there are more slower computers in China than the fewer faster computer in the US, so they can boot Windows faster.
This also hasn't gotten into the diminishing return of splitting a work load into many parallel operation, because in the end there's work that can be done only in one cpu and every other cpu has to wait for this before they can move on. If you have enough of these jobs in your workload your will be bottlenecked no matter how super is your computer.
These are info that is not in your typical number and won't win you any bragging right.
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
You have no idea what a supercomputer is, do you?
+1
It is easy to build a "super computer" that are just a bunch of PCs cluster doing math in parallel, not depending on the result of each other (i.e. testing out encryption in brute force).
It is very hard to build a "super computer" that would calculate base on results that depends on each other cluster's. Every time you add additional computer, you have a dimensionally larger array of connection you need to deal with. an array of 5000 cpu is not 5x more complicate to connect than an array of 1000 cpu, but 5000x5000 - 1000x1000 = 24000000 times more possible connection between them. You can say your super computer is powerful, but it is useless if you don't factor in how you measure your power (doing sequential work or a lot completely independent work). It is like saying there are more slower computers in China than the fewer faster computer in the US, so they can boot Windows faster.
This also hasn't gotten into the diminishing return of splitting a work load into many parallel operation, because in the end there's work that can be done only in one cpu and every other cpu has to wait for this before they can move on. If you have enough of these jobs in your workload your will be bottlenecked no matter how super is your computer.
These are info that is not in your typical number and won't win you any bragging right.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
People in the US that want $25-50/hr factory line worker jobs to come back to US are in a delusional fantasy. No one in the US is ever gonna be paid that kind of money again for jobs that take less than a day of training and no advanced education to perform. Those days are over.
If you want to earn a good living wage in the US better get some advanced training and be prepared to hustle and never stop learning to stay a step ahead. If not you are screwed. Times they done got hard and folks better learn that lesson fast.
Couldn't agree more.
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
People in the US that want $25-50/hr factory line worker jobs to come back to US are in a delusional fantasy. No one in the US is ever gonna be paid that kind of money again for jobs that take less than a day of training and no advanced education to perform. Those days are over.
If you want to earn a good living wage in the US better get some advanced training and be prepared to hustle and never stop learning to stay a step ahead. If not you are screwed. Times they done got hard and folks better learn that lesson fast.
Couldn't agree more.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
Well no. This could not have happened if Washington had not fallen all over themselves to let China into the WTO and give them most favored status. Then it started.
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
Well no. This could not have happened if Washington had not fallen all over themselves to let China into the WTO and give them most favored status. Then it started.
I did well in the past and didn't sit on my hands, I went back to school. Now I get to do cool things and don't have to compete with the unwashed masses which is great.
The days of dropping out of high school and working an Aerospace job for 40 years are definitely over.
But, we really can't compete with people who are highly trained and live in corrugated steel shacks in places like Mexico.
Volkswagen and GM and others are making cars there and more to follow. I hear BMW is thinking of producing in Mexico.
Germany traditionally paid the social costs of having German workers, and if that changes I don't think it is good for anybody.
The costs won't be passed on to the consumer, and people making these cars wont get the benefits they should.
The days of dropping out of high school and working an Aerospace job for 40 years are definitely over.
But, we really can't compete with people who are highly trained and live in corrugated steel shacks in places like Mexico.
Volkswagen and GM and others are making cars there and more to follow. I hear BMW is thinking of producing in Mexico.
Germany traditionally paid the social costs of having German workers, and if that changes I don't think it is good for anybody.
The costs won't be passed on to the consumer, and people making these cars wont get the benefits they should.
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
People in the US that want $25-50/hr factory line worker jobs to come back to US are in a delusional fantasy. No one in the US is ever gonna be paid that kind of money again for jobs that take less than a day of training and no advanced education to perform. Those days are over.
If you want to earn a good living wage in the US better get some advanced training and be prepared to hustle and never stop learning to stay a step ahead. If not you are screwed. Times they done got hard and folks better learn that lesson fast.
+1. But, some of the conservatives say all you have to do is punish business for manufacturing abroad and it will all be hunky-dory again. Yup! I am ready and willing, cash in hand, to pay $1,500 for a 19" LCS TV!
Forgive me for saying this, but a good percentage of Americans have become lazy in the extreme. You don't have to return to caveman effort levels to do well, but the days of high paying semiskilled jobs are beyond over.
But, if you REALLY want to bring them back be prepared to live with far fewer "goodies" and pay a lot more for the ones you do buy. That is OK, too, but most do not have the commitment to do that. It is far easier to cast blame and complain than to actually do anything.
People in the US that want $25-50/hr factory line worker jobs to come back to US are in a delusional fantasy. No one in the US is ever gonna be paid that kind of money again for jobs that take less than a day of training and no advanced education to perform. Those days are over.
If you want to earn a good living wage in the US better get some advanced training and be prepared to hustle and never stop learning to stay a step ahead. If not you are screwed. Times they done got hard and folks better learn that lesson fast.
+1. But, some of the conservatives say all you have to do is punish business for manufacturing abroad and it will all be hunky-dory again. Yup! I am ready and willing, cash in hand, to pay $1,500 for a 19" LCS TV!
Forgive me for saying this, but a good percentage of Americans have become lazy in the extreme. You don't have to return to caveman effort levels to do well, but the days of high paying semiskilled jobs are beyond over.
But, if you REALLY want to bring them back be prepared to live with far fewer "goodies" and pay a lot more for the ones you do buy. That is OK, too, but most do not have the commitment to do that. It is far easier to cast blame and complain than to actually do anything.
The infra-structure is crumbling everywhere. Who is gonna fix it? Gangs of Chinese coolies?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
You just said it. Yep, its the entire world's buying decisions. Of course, where else is there an economy on par with the USA?
Markets were crashing over Greece - an economy the size of Indiana.
California is the fifth largest economy in the world.
US is by far the economy driving all this. Sure many others influence it, but many others, like Germany, also do protect their industrial base, and their people buy materials and items produced there. They dont have the wal mart mentality to the extreme that too many here have.
Why is China's economy booming if we werent the enablers?????? Why does China buy US debt and have a vested interest in US consumption if our buying decisions dont influence this and flow money over there to finance projects like this supercomputer?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: johnachak
China will use that computer to continue hacking into ours. How hard should that be since they make much of our security hardware. Friggin' ridiculous if you ask me. You can be arrested for selling computer secrets to them but we let them build our computers...
It's our own purchasing decisions that finance this. Their existence is based upon our desire to buy cheap junk and shortchange our fellow countrymen.
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
You just said it. Yep, its the entire world's buying decisions. Of course, where else is there an economy on par with the USA?
Markets were crashing over Greece - an economy the size of Indiana.
California is the fifth largest economy in the world.
US is by far the economy driving all this. Sure many others influence it, but many others, like Germany, also do protect their industrial base, and their people buy materials and items produced there. They dont have the wal mart mentality to the extreme that too many here have.
Why is China's economy booming if we werent the enablers?????? Why does China buy US debt and have a vested interest in US consumption if our buying decisions dont influence this and flow money over there to finance projects like this supercomputer?
The developing world is buying China's products because they are low cost and adequate quality. The world does not buy their cars, airplanes, CT scan machines, etc.
Germany in the last 100 years has historically been an excellent example of how not to run a country or an economy. Germany currently has an extremely strong high tech manufacturing base, its modern factories and plants (all completely rebuilt after WW2) produce very high quality precision goods - and its workers are highly trained, universally literate and well educated - it is their super very high productivity that protects their HQ products and jobs. Part of that is the culture in Germany and part of it is due to something called the Marshall plan.
Germany in the last 100 years has historically been an excellent example of how not to run a country or an economy. Germany currently has an extremely strong high tech manufacturing base, its modern factories and plants (all completely rebuilt after WW2) produce very high quality precision goods - and its workers are highly trained, universally literate and well educated - it is their super very high productivity that protects their HQ products and jobs. Part of that is the culture in Germany and part of it is due to something called the Marshall plan.
Last edited:
Yes I do know what a supercomputer is. I also know that it can be used to crack just about any security codes we have and it can be used to help design faster, better weapons systems.
the secret is it runs on rice.
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Yes I do know what a supercomputer is. I also know that it can be used to crack just about any security codes we have and it can be used to help design faster, better weapons systems.
The first one is highly unlikely, the encryption suites in use all over the world are enormously complex for the very reason of preventing large scale brute force attacks.
Even with the entire computing power of the world, some encryption suites may take hundreds of years to break by that method.
The second one, while possible, is also unlikely. High quality engineering designs weapons, not high computing power.
High computing power is predominantly used for medical simulations and weather simulations. Its extremely difficult to use a supercomputer to design battlefield weaponry.
Designing stronger metals, sure, and maybe that has applications in weaponry, but thats like saying titanium is a weapon.
Yes I do know what a supercomputer is. I also know that it can be used to crack just about any security codes we have and it can be used to help design faster, better weapons systems.
The first one is highly unlikely, the encryption suites in use all over the world are enormously complex for the very reason of preventing large scale brute force attacks.
Even with the entire computing power of the world, some encryption suites may take hundreds of years to break by that method.
The second one, while possible, is also unlikely. High quality engineering designs weapons, not high computing power.
High computing power is predominantly used for medical simulations and weather simulations. Its extremely difficult to use a supercomputer to design battlefield weaponry.
Designing stronger metals, sure, and maybe that has applications in weaponry, but thats like saying titanium is a weapon.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
Seems to be working just fine for Germany.........
No its not. What folks in US buy has very little effect because the ENTIRE world buys low cost manufactured goods and services from low labor cost places like China and India. That horse has left the barn and died of old age.
Manufacturing will always naturally flow to the place of cheapest labor and materials - no way to stop it except with artificial barriers and artificial barriers absolutely never EVER work. The US needs to lead with software, bio tech, and other high value specializations. Manufacturing everyday objects and machines is not coming back to US until emerging markets have similar high labor and material costs - that's 50-100 years away.
Seems to be working just fine for Germany.........
- Status
