Need "Expert" Advice or Opinion ACEA Dillema

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Well here we are. Yet another visit at the dealer.

Thank You for all your input on this matter. Here is what I have found since my last post.

I went to the dealership and asked to see a quart/litre of the 5W20 WSS M2C925-A oil they use in my car. I got a quart of Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W20 spec'd WSS M2C925-A. Now this is the important (as I see it) aside from meeting a myriad of specs other than WSS M2C925-A it was also imprinted that it meets and exceeds a1/B1 AND A5/B5 (the high performance counterpart).

When I looked online, Mobil 1, Castrol Edge with TFT, Edge with SPT, Amsoil, Penzoil, Valvoline etc... I found that those that claim that it is "suitable" for use only meet A1/B1. That includes all over the counter Castrol Products. I have NOT found ANY oil that MEETS WSS M2C925-A and A5/B5 except for the Castrol they sell at the dealership, which is the oil they claim I MUST use to keep my warranty in-force.

So, 5W20 from the dealership, at $ 189.00 per oil change with the "special" oil it is. It's interesting, at my last oil change, the entire oil change was done with the car on the ground. They claim I have no oil drain plug and the oil is changed using a suction tube built in by Jaguar for said purpose right in the middle of my filler area. It is there, and i saw 8 quarts come out, then the filter (under the engine cover) then 8 quarts of new 5W20 WSS M2C925-A Castrol oil went in. Rather interesting... I was wondering what that suction tube was about...

THis is where I am at the moment.
 
Quote:
Engine Oil | SAE 5W-20 meeting Jaguar
specification WSS M2C925-A only.

Where does it say that he must use oil from the dealer at $12.50 a quart? He can use M1 5w-20, which is WSS M2C925-A for half the price.


I hate to be a turd in the punch bowl, but I just checked both Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W20 and Mobil 1 5W20 and neither mention anything about WSS M2C925-A anywhere. 945-A yes, but not 925-A. and as I found their 5W20 only meets A1/B1 and NOT A5/B5 and I know the dealer oil does.

I guess, if I "Sunday Drive" all the time, A1/B1 would be just fine. But I don't. This car, as well as others will see plenty of track time... and that's where I feel the "high performance" A5/B5 comes in. as it is, as you can tell, I am apprehensive in running 5W20 anything... I realize the engineers know what they are doing, but isn't their criteria meeting emission standards, economy standards, preserving the cats and simply making sure the engine makes it out of warranty? in that case, vegetable oil will do... but I intend on keeping these cars.
 
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Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
I hate to be a turd in the punch bowl, but I just checked both Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W20 and Mobil 1 5W20 and neither mention anything about WSS M2C925-A anywhere. 945-A yes, but not 925-A. and as I found their 5W20 only meets A1/B1 and NOT A5/B5 and I know the dealer oil does.

I know you're not trying to be that. And I'm not trying to appear delusional, but I did see it, I swear!
wink.gif


I'll have to dig deeper. Believe me, I did see it as I posted it. Of course, now I don't remember exactly where I saw it. Realistically, it should not be too hard for me to track down. It was either at the Mobil 1 USA site, the Mobil 1 Canada site, the American PDS, or the Canadian PDS.

I'm looking as I type, without success. Does anyone here have the previous M1 5w-20 and M1 5w-20 EP sheets they could check? Imperial Oil and XOM all have the dexos1 sheets up now, and my reference might have been before 5w-20 obtained its dexos1 license. And I don't happen to keep 5w-20 data sheets around, since I have no need for the grade. The only reference I can find at this very moment points to a stupid broken link at the XOM site.
 
Is this in your manual? Just curious....




**********************************

Use only 5W-20 engine oil, meeting
specification WSS M2C925-A.
Jaguar recommends:
Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W-20.
In an emergency, if the oil of the above
specification is unavailable, the engine can be
topped-up using a maximum of 1 litre (2 US
Pints) of 5W-20 oil meeting specification
ILSACGF-4 API SM.
**********************************
 
Thanks, montero1, that looks like the spec page I saw before. I'm not positive if it was the SM/GF-4 one to which you linked or an SN/GF-5 one. It definitely wasn't the current dexos1 5w-20 page.
 




I hate to be a turd in the punch bowl, but I just checked both Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W20 and Mobil 1 5W20 and neither mention anything about WSS M2C925-A anywhere. 945-A yes, but not 925-A. and as I found their 5W20 only meets A1/B1 and NOT A5/B5 and I know the dealer oil does.

I guess, if I "Sunday Drive" all the time, A1/B1 would be just fine. But I don't. This car, as well as others will see plenty of track time... and that's where I feel the "high performance" A5/B5 comes in. as it is, as you can tell, I am apprehensive in running 5W20 anything... I realize the engineers know what they are doing, but isn't their criteria meeting emission standards, economy standards, preserving the cats and simply making sure the engine makes it out of warranty? in that case, vegetable oil will do... but I intend on keeping these cars.


Edited by BritGerCarLuvr (05/26/13 03:33 PM)






You should e-mail Ford and find out if the 945-A is back-spec'd to 925A. If you google those two numbers vs. each other, several people "claim" the 945 is an updated version.
 
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OMG! Here I thought they were kidding about the 925-A oil having a special "dye" in it, and if not used, the engine warranty is VOID. After a LOT of fishing around... here is what I got from CASTROL.

"Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20 is co-engineered in partnership with Jaguar and Land Rover Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20 is proven in tests to deliver outstanding oil strength. Micro filtered and with its signature fluorescent color, it is your guarantee of professional quality."

Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20 is full synthetic fuel efficient SAE 5W-20 engine oil.

Castrol EDGE Professional with Fluid Strength Technology™ is Castrol’s strongest and most advanced range of engine oils; its unique adaptive strength reduces metal to metal contact across a range of different driving speeds. Castrol EDGE Professional – lowers friction and maximizes engine performance.

Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20 is a free flowing SAE 5W-20, developed to combine performance, protection and superior fuel efficiency for most modern four-stroke petrol and diesel passenger car engines, under all driving conditions.

Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20 gives you the confidence to demand maximum engine performance from the latest high performance, efficient technology engines requiring the lowest viscosity oils.



and of course, what I saw on the bottle, the famous A5/B5:

Specifications:

SAE 5W-20.

ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5

Motor Manufacturers:

Ford WSS-M2C925-A.
Ford WSS-M2C925-B.


and of course...

PRODUCT APPLICATION

Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20 is recommended for use in modern, technically advanced, petrol and diesel passenger vehicles which are designed to run low viscosity fuel efficient, SAE 5W-20, engine oils.
Castrol EDGE Professional A1 5W-20 is recommended for use in the Jaguar and Landrover supercharged 5-Litre V8 engines introduced in 2009.


So I'll just sit back a bit and think about all this... especially the "if the dye is not in your oil, warranty void" part of my discussion with the dealer. Castrol indeed confirms this oil contains a special dye... therefore, doesn't that kindda make every other oil on the planet "the wrong oil"... I'll use their "special oil", but this doesn't seem right. a simple example, my Supercharged Jaguar uses the same quantity of oil as my XF, the oil change for the supercharged is $ 125.00 for "full" Castrol Synthetic 5W30, and is a pian in the *** as the under tray is the invention from the underworld. The XF, same quantity of oil, less than 10 minutes with the special "suction tube", no under tray to mess with, nothing to unbolt, don't even need a lift... using this "special oil" is right at $ 190.00. Very interesting...
 
Something else...

Here is something from the Jaguar Sales Training Newsletter:

Newsletter said:
Jaguar and Castrol - "The new oil, Castrol Professional FuelSaver SLX A1 5W-20, is exclusive to and must be used in the new 5.0L AJ V8 engines."
 
Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
Something else...

Here is something from the Jaguar Sales Training Newsletter:

Newsletter said:
Jaguar and Castrol - "The new oil, Castrol Professional FuelSaver SLX A1 5W-20, is exclusive to and must be used in the new 5.0L AJ V8 engines."



Good news- I found a place near you that sells it.

FELTS HEAVY DUTY OIL
2412 CULLEN ST
FORT WORTH, TX 76107
(817) 336-7132

If you swing by to pick it up, you can buy 1-2 cases. It's like $48 for a 6-pack. They close at 3:30p on weekdays, they are a distributor.



Also, in reading through the Jag and Rover messageboards, you DO have a drain plug on your pan.
 
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Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
So I'll just sit back a bit and think about all this... especially the "if the dye is not in your oil, warranty void" part of my discussion with the dealer.

Unless the dye is part of the certification and is present in every other certified oil, they cannot void your warranty for not having a dye in the oil. Heck, they cannot void your warranty for even intentionally using the wrong oil. First off, something would have to go wrong with the engine, requiring warranty attention. Then, it would have to be a lube related failure. Then, you might be on your own, or at least have a claim with the oil company if they recommended the oil.

Take montero1's advice about buying the approved oil elsewhere. Had they given me the guff that they gave you, they never would have seen me in their shop again. The dealership that sold me the G said I would have a lifetime warranty on my engine if I had them do all the oil changes. I told them to stuff that.
 
Oil Reset

1. Press and hold rear fog lamp switch
2. Turn ignition on, do not start engine
3. Release rear fog lamp switch
4. Press and hold trip button (end of left side stalk)
5. Press and hold rear fog lamp switch
6. Keep holding til the message says its reset
7. See "Resetting Service Light" message in message center.
 
Resurrecting this epic thread on the Jaguar-built 5.0L (A133?) engine, which is also used in the Land Rover LR4 / Discovery 4.

Interestingly, most oil mfr websites have removed mention of the M2C925 spec (either A or B), and do not list their 5W-20 oils as "recommended" for this application. Mobil-1, Amsoil, and even Castrol websites (in USA) do not have any recommended product at all. The Amsoil site says "Please contact the AMSOIL Technical Service Department for a recommendation." Amsoil 5W-20 shows M2C945 only, not M2C925. Ditto for Mobil-1 5W-20 EP (M2C945 only).

Searching for oils that specifically state WSS-M2C925 (either A or B), not much comes up. There's a Motul SPECIFIC 925B which appears difficult or impossible to buy in USA; ditto for Liqui-Moly Special Tec AA in 5W-20. Interestingly, Red Line does show Ford WSS-M2C925-A in their "suitable replacement" list, and Red Line claims A5/B5 as well:
https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=1&pcid=21

I never did find any answer if the Ford M2C945 replaces / supersedes the M2C925 but I suspect it may not. Has anyone found evidence proving one way or the other?

I needed to top off the engine so I went to the dealership; they did not have any quart bottles but offered to fill a jug if I brought it in for them, pumped out of the 55 gallon drum they buy (shows as "SLX OE" on the dealer service receipts). So, I picked up a gallon of the dealer juice for a whopping $8/qt. I don't need to change the oil immediately but I'll need to figure out relatively soon if I should just use whatever the dealer pumps into bottles I supply; or give the Red Line a whirl. Unfortunately I did not get to see the drum they pumped out of, I'd like to get a photo of the label on the drum.

Question for John (original poster, BritGerCarLuvr)... what are you currently using, if you still have the Jaguar and/or read this forum?

smile.gif
 
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