0w30??

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So I've read through the Oil University pages and think I've got an understanding now of how it all works.

I've got an 86 GMC pickup, the oil cap calls for 10w30. The person who owned it before me used Mobil1 10w30 synthetic. When I change the oil switching to Mobil1 0w30 should offer my engine more protection should it not? Both will offer the same protection at operating temperatures, but the 0w30 will protect better at start up if I understand correctly. Would I see any ill effects?

Thanks
 
As long as the engine doesn't leak or burn oil you should be fine. If it leaks or burns oil a 5W30 high mile oil would be a better option. I've been running 0W30 in an engine originally calling for 10W30 with great results. Good oil choice BTW.
 
No leaks that I've noticed yet, although I haven't had it long. The truck only has approximately 105,000 miles on it. Not bad for an 86. I think I'll try the 0w30. I'd like to stick with Mobil1 and their synthetic high mileage blends aren't available in Canada AFAIK.
 
Originally Posted By: Carpart67
No leaks that I've noticed yet, although I haven't had it long. The truck only has approximately 105,000 miles on it. Not bad for an 86. I think I'll try the 0w30. I'd like to stick with Mobil1 and their synthetic high mileage blends aren't available in Canada AFAIK.


I'd go for it, their 0W30 is a very good oil.
 
Originally Posted By: rcbc96
If it isn't leaking you'll be good. Mobil, redline, and amsoil all make 0w30

...and don't forget Castrol!
 
It will work fine. Mobil 1 10W30 has a pretty low pour point though (-42*C), so I don't see any extra "protection" in NS in an 80's small block Chevy. There are many other factors like acid buildup and condensation that cause engine wear at initial startup.
 
FYI beware the M1 0w30.* In the Grand Cherokee in the signature, M1 0w30 created more than twice the amount of iron in a UOA than any other oil. There have also been reports of up to FOUR times the amount of wear in flat tappet engines.

In a flat tappet engine (like my GC in the sig, and I think your '86) you should probably choose a different 0w30. I use Amsoil 0w30 year 'round with great results.





*I am NOT a M1 hater, just stating the facts when it is used in a flat tappet engine.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kuato
FYI beware the M1 0w30.* In the Grand Cherokee in the signature, M1 0w30 created more than twice the amount of iron in a UOA than any other oil. There have also been reports of up to FOUR times the amount of wear in flat tappet engines.

In a flat tappet engine (like my GC in the sig, and I think your '86) you should probably choose a different 0w30. I use Amsoil 0w30 year 'round with great results.





*I am NOT a M1 hater, just stating the facts when it is used in a flat tappet engine.


But unless you've actually done before/after tear down measurements, what you are extrapolating from that UOA data is completely baseless.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

But unless you've actually done before/after tear down measurements, what you are extrapolating from that UOA data is completely baseless.


Nope, it's very useful. Since no other oil creates these sky high fe readings in Jeep 4.0 UOA's, it is simply much easier to pick a different oil, rather than tearing down the engine to figure out whether or not Mobil 1 can be used. Just common sense.
 
Originally Posted By: Carpart67
The truck only has approximately 105,000 miles on it. Not bad for an 86. I think I'll try the 0w30. I'd like to stick with Mobil1 and their synthetic high mileage blends aren't available in Canada AFAIK.

M1 AFE 0W-30 isn't available in Canada either.
The fact is, M1 5W-30 is just as light on start-up as their 0W-30 at all but extemely low temp's; temp's lower than what you'll ever see in NS.
 
Originally Posted By: Carpart67
Both will offer the same protection at operating temperatures, but the 0w30 will protect better at start up if I understand correctly.

It should, but whether it's going to actually be significant enough to matter is another issue. In Saskatchewan, I've had many vehicles outside in the winter running 5w-30 conventional. I've run many small blocks of your vintage for many hundreds of thousands of kilometres on 10w-30 conventional.

If you are choosing a synthetic, there's nothing wrong with a 0w-30. If you're worried about flat tappets (Chevs of that vintage seemed to flatten cams no matter what, but that's another issue), then there are other options. 10w-30 HDEO would work. Synthetic HDEOs would work. QS Defy 5w-30 would be pretty much the simplest choice.

If you insist upon a synthetic and want a little extra zinc and HTHS over a normal PCMO, I'd try Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 or Petro-Canada Duron 0w-30.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Kuato
FYI beware the M1 0w30.* In the Grand Cherokee in the signature, M1 0w30 created more than twice the amount of iron in a UOA than any other oil. There have also been reports of up to FOUR times the amount of wear in flat tappet engines.

In a flat tappet engine (like my GC in the sig, and I think your '86) you should probably choose a different 0w30. I use Amsoil 0w30 year 'round with great results.





*I am NOT a M1 hater, just stating the facts when it is used in a flat tappet engine.


But unless you've actually done before/after tear down measurements, what you are extrapolating from that UOA data is completely baseless.


How so? Why is a teardown required to validate results? With that logic any UOA is worthless, and that just doesn't fly.

I've had more than 10 UOAs on this vehicle with 7 different oils. 5 of these UOAs were at 5000 miles with the same driving, same filters and same time of year. 4 of the samples came back with a max of 20ppm Fe. The M1 came back with 49. Other oils tested included ST Syn, ST, Amsoil and VWB.

It has been conclusively shown by multiple UOAs across multiple vehicles without exception that M1 in the Jeep 4.0 is contraindicated due to accelerated wear. Like I said in my earlier post, M1 is a great oil. But it's a poor choice for the 4.0.
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Kuato
FYI beware the M1 0w30.* In the Grand Cherokee in the signature, M1 0w30 created more than twice the amount of iron in a UOA than any other oil. There have also been reports of up to FOUR times the amount of wear in flat tappet engines.

In a flat tappet engine (like my GC in the sig, and I think your '86) you should probably choose a different 0w30. I use Amsoil 0w30 year 'round with great results.





*I am NOT a M1 hater, just stating the facts when it is used in a flat tappet engine.


But unless you've actually done before/after tear down measurements, what you are extrapolating from that UOA data is completely baseless.


How so? Why is a teardown required to validate results? With that logic any UOA is worthless, and that just doesn't fly.

I've had more than 10 UOAs on this vehicle with 7 different oils. 5 of these UOAs were at 5000 miles with the same driving, same filters and same time of year. 4 of the samples came back with a max of 20ppm Fe. The M1 came back with 49. Other oils tested included ST Syn, ST, Amsoil and VWB.

It has been conclusively shown by multiple UOAs across multiple vehicles without exception that M1 in the Jeep 4.0 is contraindicated due to accelerated wear. Like I said in my earlier post, M1 is a great oil. But it's a poor choice for the 4.0.


You've done your homework
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Originally Posted By: Kuato


How so? Why is a teardown required to validate results?


Because you have no results without a teardown. You have numbers on a sheet. You are familiar with the fact that a UOA samples an extremely narrow range of particle sizes right?

Quote:
With that logic any UOA is worthless, and that just doesn't fly.


The purpose of a UOA is to determine lubricant life and contamination levels, not monitor engine wear. They are not a wear determination tool. Using them in that manner is nothing short of foolhardy.

Quote:
I've had more than 10 UOAs on this vehicle with 7 different oils. 5 of these UOAs were at 5000 miles with the same driving, same filters and same time of year. 4 of the samples came back with a max of 20ppm Fe. The M1 came back with 49. Other oils tested included ST Syn, ST, Amsoil and VWB.

It has been conclusively shown by multiple UOAs across multiple vehicles without exception that M1 in the Jeep 4.0 is contraindicated due to accelerated wear. Like I said in my earlier post, M1 is a great oil. But it's a poor choice for the 4.0.


Prove accelerated wear. That's the issue here. You assume higher PPM for a given lubricant means accelerated wear. It doesn't. That's why we do tear downs, because measurements are real results.

Please read:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

Then see this thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1325382

Cheater note, this liner has 1.2 million Km's (745,000 miles) on it with the condemnation point for Fe at 150ppm
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Delvac1DDetroit008Renn.jpg


Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary

Information:
Operation = Interstate, Linehaul,Reefer - one Driver for life,
Typical use per annum = 225kkms

Detroit Diesel 12.7ltr Series 60 @ 500hp, 1650lb/ft @1200-1525rpm
Cruise revs 1650rpm, Max revs 1800
Donaldson ELF Filters + MannHummel Centrifuge
Lubricant = Delvac 1 5W-40 (from 60kkms)

OCIs
Average = 99711kms
Longest = 116227kms

Data
Soot
Average @ OCI = 3.2%
Highest @ OCI = 7.8%

Iron
Average @ OCI = 134ppm
Highest @ OCI 221ppm

Highest TAN @ OCI = 6.13
Lowest TBN @ OCI = 2.26

Centrifuge uptake rate = 0.0029g/km

Oil consumption averaged almost exactly 6kkms/ltr

The two major condemnation points were soot (3.5%) @ iron (150ppm) - viscosity was always near new

I hope this is of interest


That's an average OCI of 62,000 miles. An average Fe figure of 22ppm per 10,000 miles.

How many OCI's did you track the AFE for? Did you establish a legitimate trend or did you assume that the 49ppm meant epic engine failure and you terminated the "test" at that point?

I had 35ppm of Fe on my M5 UOA. And it has alumasil cylinder liners. I'm not at all concerned and neither was the lab because the condemnation point is 100 PPM. A man who has probably done more UOA's than everybody on this board combined (Doug) who also happens to be the author of that article I mentioned earlier also wasn't concerned by it.

Yes, there's an undeniable psychological factor at play here and that is that we want to be able to do "right" by our engines. So believing that we can do just that by performing UOA's and finding the oil with the "lowest wear" fits that agenda. We "enhance" the purpose of the tool, instilling it with this mystical gift of wear prophecy, but most of us don't even bother to get particle counts done, which is about the most useful thing regarding wear that a UOA can tell you. That's why when REAL tests are being done they employ random-sample tear-downs (like Doug did......) because in order to actually track wear, you need to measure and observe components. A UOA doesn't tell you that. If it did, Doug wouldn't have needed to pull those bearings or liners now would he?
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Why is a teardown required to validate results? With that logic any UOA is worthless, and that just doesn't fly.

A UOA only indirectly can tell you certain things about the engine. And those things may be dead wrong. Overkill covers the matter well in his post. How many PPM and over what interval means a flat cam in a Jeep? How many for a SBC? How many PPM indicated (or more accurately, failed to indicate) that BuickGN was going to throw a rod, or whatever catastrophic failure he experienced?

Do mechanics call for a UOA before they start repairs? Obviously, UOAs are not worthless, even though they're not a great tool for determining engine wear. You may get some general trends, but those must be considered very carefully. You cannot compare a UOA of M1 versus a UOA of Brand X and say that one or the other has more or less wear based upon PPM of iron. UOAs are decidedly not for comparing which of two SN/GF-5 oils of the same viscosity provides more wear protection.

A UOA is designed to directly tell you about the condition of the lubricant. Is it suitable for continued use or is it not?
 
I like 0W-30's (both Mobil 1's and Castrol's), but I think you're better off using Mobil 1 High Mileage (either 5W-30 or 10W-30) in that application. Even MaxLife would do well...
 
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