96-01 Lexus ES 300 Mobil 0w-40 sludge prevention?

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
+1, on running high octane fuel. I only run premium in both my RX300 and ES300.

Here's what my ES looks like under the front valve cover at around 180k miles: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...987#Post2847987


Looks very good under there! I know they're great trouble free engines when taken care of. I saw that yours was dealer maintained most of it's life so most likely all conventional oil. Now that you're using synthetic it will be interesting to see another shot in 50,000 miles. Probably will be like a mirror in there. Yours is the first model after they corrected the problem. What did they rework the PCV system?

 

[hypervish]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: hypervish
+1, on running high octane fuel. I only run premium in both my RX300 and ES300.

Here's what my ES looks like under the front valve cover at around 180k miles: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...987#Post2847987


Looks very good under there! I know they're great trouble free engines when taken care of. I saw that yours was dealer maintained most of it's life so most likely all conventional oil. Now that you're using synthetic it will be interesting to see another shot in 50,000 miles. Probably will be like a mirror in there. Yours is the first model after they corrected the problem. What did they rework the PCV system?


Starting in 2001 they changed the PCV valve design to a metal valve, replacing the previous plastic valve. In 2002 (mid-year), they enlarged the oil return holes to improve oil flow.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: hypervish

Starting in 2001 they changed the PCV valve design to a metal valve, replacing the previous plastic valve. In 2002 (mid-year), they enlarged the oil return holes to improve oil flow.


What a difference that change made!

 

[tommygunn]

I have a 96 (built in January 1996, so the previous generation and "non-sludge-year" engine), but I replace the PCV valve, AND the grommet, with every oil change.

If you don't replace the grommet, it gets hard and cracks, and becomes difficult to remove and some people even get pieces of old grommet inside the engine!

I use M1 HM 5w30. But 0w40 sounds like a good idea, and so would GC, but Castrol wasn't on sale at the time of my oil change.

Any A5/B5 or A3/B4 synthetic should work for 5-7k. I would probably do 5-7k, or 6 months, whatever comes first, on a 97+ 1MZ, along with the aforementioned PCV replacement EVERY oil change.

I go longer than I'm suggesting to you, but I have a non-sludge-year 1MZ, but I still change out the PCV valve and grommet every time.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I have a 96 (built in January 1996, so the previous generation and "non-sludge-year" engine), but I replace the PCV valve, AND the grommet, with every oil change.

If you don't replace the grommet, it gets hard and cracks, and becomes difficult to remove and some people even get pieces of old grommet inside the engine!

I use M1 HM 5w30. But 0w40 sounds like a good idea, and so would GC, but Castrol wasn't on sale at the time of my oil change.

Any A5/B5 or A3/B4 synthetic should work for 5-7k. I would probably do 5-7k, or 6 months, whatever comes first, on a 97+ 1MZ, along with the aforementioned PCV replacement EVERY oil change.

I go longer than I'm suggesting to you, but I have a non-sludge-year 1MZ, but I still change out the PCV valve and grommet every time.


Thanks for the tip. You don't think cleaning it every change is enough? Maybe I'll ask the dealer for a discount since I'll need a case of PCV valves on a regular basis lol.

 

[Trav]

I owned one of the 3.0 engines a while back in a Solara and have had quite a few apart. Good engine and really no trouble if maintained well.
Some engines scream for 40w like the Nissan VQ, some Subaru and a lot of Euro stuff but this engine isn't one of them, they run very well on 0w30 or 5w30.

Personally i would go with a low NOAK oil like PU 5w30 or Amsoil SSO (if its still called that) 0w30, it will help keep the PCV cleaner longer.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I owned one of the 3.0 engines a while back in a Solara and have had quite a few apart. Good engine and really no trouble if maintained well.
Some engines scream for 40w like the Nissan VQ, some Subaru and a lot of Euro stuff but this engine isn't one of them, they run very well on 0w30 or 5w30.

Personally i would go with a low NOAK oil like PU 5w30 or Amsoil SSO (if its still called that) 0w30, it will help keep the PCV cleaner longer.


I don't doubt that this engine runs terrific on Xw-30. Perhaps even better than it will on 0w-40. I'm just considering sludge prevention first and foremost.

That's an interesting point about using a low Noack oil to benefit the PCV system. However, isn't Mobil 0w-40 a fairly low Noack oil to begin with?
My thoughts on using 0w-40, over a 30 weight, are for the added high temperature protection coupled with its Long Life properties. My assumption is that all the sludged engines are products of high heat + time. If that is the case then I cannot think of an oil that handles heat better over time than Mobil 0w-40. It's just a theory I have. Maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong.

 

[hypervish]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I have a 96 (built in January 1996, so the previous generation and "non-sludge-year" engine), but I replace the PCV valve, AND the grommet, with every oil change.

If you don't replace the grommet, it gets hard and cracks, and becomes difficult to remove and some people even get pieces of old grommet inside the engine!

I use M1 HM 5w30. But 0w40 sounds like a good idea, and so would GC, but Castrol wasn't on sale at the time of my oil change.

Any A5/B5 or A3/B4 synthetic should work for 5-7k. I would probably do 5-7k, or 6 months, whatever comes first, on a 97+ 1MZ, along with the aforementioned PCV replacement EVERY oil change.

I go longer than I'm suggesting to you, but I have a non-sludge-year 1MZ, but I still change out the PCV valve and grommet every time.


Thanks for the tip. You don't think cleaning it every change is enough? Maybe I'll ask the dealer for a discount since I'll need a case of PCV valves on a regular basis lol.


That's overkill. No need to change the PCV every oil change.

My RX with the 1MZ-FE has nearly 200k miles of synthetic oil changes (5k mile OCI), and it's clean enough to eat off of under the valve cover. The PCV was changed twice once at 75k miles, and then at 150k miles. No need to waste an additional $5 every oil change.

If you want to be proactive, then feel free to change it every 20k miles or something along those lines.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Here are the pictures (of the front bank) at 232,000 miles and a link to the one from 155,000 miles. I'm pretty interested to see how the back bank looks at 275,000+

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2197631#Post2197631

That looks darker than it is because the oil needed changing at the time. There is very little varnish.

It has had mostly M1 5W-30 since the first oil change. Back when GC was all the rage here in BITOG I used that for a while, but it tended to clog up the PCV valve more than M1 does. I've also used Pennzoil Ultra twice, plus a couple of OCIs on 0W-40 when I got that on sale. Oh and 5W-20 once (since the engine is back-speced to that grade) but it was noticeably noisier and I haven't used it since.

And I too use premium fuel since the compression ratio is 10.5 to 1.



Wow your engine looks fantastic! I've looked at several photos and not one of them looks as good as yours. What a vivid demonstration of synthetic superiority. Thank you very much for linking the photos.

It's interesting that GC clogged up the PCV valve. I wonder why that would be. Maybe because it's heavier?



Mobil-1 sure does keep the motor clean that`s for sure.

 

[Vikas]

Have you purchased the oil filters for it yet? Which filters are you going to use?

I know some friends who started investing in 529 plan before the wife was even pregnant. I would not be surprised if some BITOGer purchase the oil, filter, shop manual for their next used car before they even locate one from classified

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay

I don't doubt that this engine runs terrific on Xw-30. Perhaps even better than it will on 0w-40. I'm just considering sludge prevention first and foremost.

That's an interesting point about using a low Noack oil to benefit the PCV system. However, isn't Mobil 0w-40 a fairly low Noack oil to begin with?
My thoughts on using 0w-40, over a 30 weight, are for the added high temperature protection coupled with its Long Life properties. My assumption is that all the sludged engines are products of high heat + time. If that is the case then I cannot think of an oil that handles heat better over time than Mobil 0w-40. It's just a theory I have. Maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong.



M1 0W40 is an extremely clean running oil. I'm very impressed by it. However, Amsoil SSO is also a very clean running oil. I've used SSO extensively with very good luck (in a Nissan VQ nonetheless). I've also used M1 0W40 for quite some time now, and am equally impressed with its cleanliness over very long intervals.

In the 3.0 Toyota V6, I'm sure you'd have good luck with either of them. Just depends on whether your driving warrants a 3.2 HTHS or a 3.8 HTHS oil. Also, the 0W40 does have slightly more zinc and phosphorus than SSO due to relaxed restrictions in a 40 grade and for the specs it is required to meet. Not sure if this is even an issue for you though.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Have you purchased the oil filters for it yet? Which filters are you going to use?

I know some friends who started investing in 529 plan before the wife was even pregnant. I would not be surprised if some BITOGer purchase the oil, filter, shop manual for their next used car before they even locate one from classified


No, I haven't purchased anything for the car yet. I was thinking I'd use the OEM filter for it. What do you think?

 

[tig1]

My grandson lives in Florida and has a Pizza route. He has a 2002 Camry with the 3.0 V6 with 140K. I have him using M1 5-30 with 10K OCIs and the engine is doing great. M1 0-40 will not keep your engine any cleaner than M1 5-30. With that said both are world class oils for the VIS you may need.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: tig1
My grandson lives in Florida and has a Pizza route. He has a 2002 Camry with the 3.0 V6 with 140K. I have him using M1 5-30 with 10K OCIs and the engine is doing great. M1 0-40 will not keep your engine any cleaner than M1 5-30. With that said both are world class oils for the VIS you may need.


Why recommend a 10,000 mile oil change on an engine that has the highest documented, oil related failure rate, in modern history?

No offense to you Tig, but I cannot see the upside to that at all. Some cars should not do extended drains.

 

[KitaCam]

I agree with ya Art...esp. considering that dealers in Florida charge just $20 for conventional OC or will charge $20 to change the syn oil/filter you bring in...seems a no-brainer to do a 5k OCI on a pizza delivery car running a lot of in-town miles...

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: tig1
My grandson lives in Florida and has a Pizza route. He has a 2002 Camry with the 3.0 V6 with 140K. I have him using M1 5-30 with 10K OCIs and the engine is doing great. M1 0-40 will not keep your engine any cleaner than M1 5-30. With that said both are world class oils for the VIS you may need.


Why recommend a 10,000 mile oil change on an engine that has the highest documented, oil related failure rate, in modern history?

No offense to you Tig, but I cannot see the upside to that at all. Some cars should not do extended drains.


Well, with M1 it's no problem. There's some history here with these engines in my family. My daughter bought a new 99 Lexus RX300(same engine as my grandsons Camry) and at that time she had me do her OCs. So I used M1 10-30 for 10K OCIs. This was before we knew about sludger Toyo problems. She sold the car to a friend of hers in 06 and it had 90K, all at 10K OCIs and at least 60% of miles were local. Here friend still drives the Lexus and she still uses M1 as my daughter did(the new owner wanted to keep the same oil as my daughter used) and the engine, according to my daughter, runs fine. My grandsons Camry had to have the back valve cover replaced last month and the mechanic told him all looked good with no sludge problems, and I have checked the dip stick myself even when he had close to 10K and the oil still had that nice amber color. At 140K the engine runs smooth and is very quite and with no oil consumption the rings are no doubt carbon free.

You guys need to realize that 10K OCIs are what's normal for me with M1, as I have been doing that for 35 years, in all kinds of engines. 10K is my 3K for most of the rest of you.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: tig1
My grandson lives in Florida and has a Pizza route. He has a 2002 Camry with the 3.0 V6 with 140K. I have him using M1 5-30 with 10K OCIs and the engine is doing great. M1 0-40 will not keep your engine any cleaner than M1 5-30. With that said both are world class oils for the VIS you may need.


Why recommend a 10,000 mile oil change on an engine that has the highest documented, oil related failure rate, in modern history?

No offense to you Tig, but I cannot see the upside to that at all. Some cars should not do extended drains.


Well, with M1 it's no problem. There's some history here with these engines in my family. My daughter bought a new 99 Lexus RX300(same engine as my grandsons Camry) and at that time she had me do her OCs. So I used M1 10-30 for 10K OCIs. This was before we knew about sludger Toyo problems. She sold the car to a friend of hers in 06 and it had 90K, all at 10K OCIs and at least 60% of miles were local. Here friend still drives the Lexus and she still uses M1 as my daughter did(the new owner wanted to keep the same oil as my daughter used) and the engine, according to my daughter, runs fine. My grandsons Camry had to have the back valve cover replaced last month and the mechanic told him all looked good with no sludge problems, and I have checked the dip stick myself even when he had close to 10K and the oil still had that nice amber color. At 140K the engine runs smooth and is very quite and with no oil consumption the rings are no doubt carbon free.

You guys need to realize that 10K OCIs are what's normal for me with M1, as I have been doing that for 35 years, in all kinds of engines. 10K is my 3K for most of the rest of you.


I'm sure it's likely that a lifetime of Mobil 1, or any good synthetic, might have prevented the sludge issue from ever happening. It's certainly good to hear about two examples going a full 10,000 miles without issue. There's no doubt conventional oils, from the previous decade, couldn't contend with whatever goes on in that engine, once the miles racked up.