Accord auto 4 cylinder transmission problem

[mister_two]

Looking for help in diagnosing a possible transmission problem.

2000 Accord 4 cylinder 182xxx miles, automatic. Got it used with 66xxx miles.
Symptoms: rough 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4 shifts, the transmission doesn’t seem to downshift to 1 when coming to a full stop. I feel a clunk when coming to a full stop at the moment it stops completely. It seems to happen only after the car is warmed up but once it happens it doesn’t go away until it’s parked for a few hours and this process repeats itself, . Shifts okay when started cold for about 15 to 25 mins then gradually the rough shifting would come back. I got a CEL with a blinking D4 light, P1750 and P0700 and another code that’s emissions related EVAP, I believe. This pointed to the clutch pressure solenoids. Replaced the clutch pressure solenoid/gasket and these three metals pin things in the solenoid. CEL is gone and have not come back. But the rough shifting came back about a week or two later – although still no CELs. I next replaced the shift lock solenoids and this did nothing, although the two old screens inside doesn’t look very good (kind of clogged up). In between this have done a couple of drains and refills with Honda ATF Z1 fluids. Actually the first thing I did when this first happened was to drain and fill the fluid with HONDA ATF, always used Honda ATF. Lastly, as a last resort, I replaced the two shift solenoids, B&C, and nothing has changed.
When the bad shifting happens and I pull over and turn off the engine and restart after a few mins it seems to shift better although I need to test this a couple of more times to confirm.
Anything else I should try or is this definitely the transmission that’s the problem?

Appreciate any assistance.

 

[cptbarkey]

that transmission and year vintage is well known to have failures. more so for the v6's, but the v4's are also affected. awesome that you tried to diagnose the solenoids, but its time for a rebuild/replacement.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Welcome to the forum.

You've done what I would have done, and I think it's probably time to throw in the towel. That transmission has delivered over 180,000 miles, which is a good life for a FWD transmission, regardless of brand. It's done its job, and it sounds like it's time for a replacement or rebuild.

 

[DrDusty86]

Honda with a failing AT. I'm shocked! I thought Honda's were bullet proof.
Honda's seem to be the only manufacturer that just denies that they have a problem for almost 2 decades rather than fixing the issues they had early on.
Jason, I've seen domestics with 250k plus on the factory AT. By all accounts that Honda died early.
Honda Quality died in the late 90's and this proves it. in the mid 90's you could have an accord go 400k miles with no issues. Today, many owners hang on to that false sense of reliability. Today is is AWESOME for a Honda to go 100k miles without needing some repair of $1,000 or more. PM me and I will share some cars I have experience with like Subaru, Toyota and Honda.
It is common for the owner of an import car to take his car in for "routine" services that are very costly. I talked to one guy about his Corolla at work and he said it costs him about $2300 every 50k miles for Toyota service work. But according to him it has been the best car he has every had. CHOKE...CHOKE. That is the typical Japanese car owner right there. Guys on here are the exception.

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Originally Posted By: mister_two
Looking for help in diagnosing a possible transmission problem.

2000 Accord 4 cylinder 182xxx miles, automatic. Got it used with 66xxx miles.
Symptoms: rough 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4 shifts, the transmission doesn’t seem to downshift to 1 when coming to a full stop. I feel a clunk when coming to a full stop at the moment it stops completely. It seems to happen only after the car is warmed up but once it happens it doesn’t go away until it’s parked for a few hours and this process repeats itself, . Shifts okay when started cold for about 15 to 25 mins then gradually the rough shifting would come back. I got a CEL with a blinking D4 light, P1750 and P0700 and another code that’s emissions related EVAP, I believe. This pointed to the clutch pressure solenoids. Replaced the clutch pressure solenoid/gasket and these three metals pin things in the solenoid. CEL is gone and have not come back. But the rough shifting came back about a week or two later – although still no CELs. I next replaced the shift lock solenoids and this did nothing, although the two old screens inside doesn’t look very good (kind of clogged up). In between this have done a couple of drains and refills with Honda ATF Z1 fluids. Actually the first thing I did when this first happened was to drain and fill the fluid with HONDA ATF, always used Honda ATF. Lastly, as a last resort, I replaced the two shift solenoids, B&C, and nothing has changed.
When the bad shifting happens and I pull over and turn off the engine and restart after a few mins it seems to shift better although I need to test this a couple of more times to confirm.
Anything else I should try or is this definitely the transmission that’s the problem?

Appreciate any assistance.


Try to replace the fluid one more time before replace or rebuild. AAMCO will probably do it for like $1600.

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Honda with a failing AT. I'm shocked! I thought Honda's were bullet proof.
Honda's seem to be the only manufacturer that just denies that they have a problem for almost 2 decades rather than fixing the issues they had early on.


The Achilles's heel of the mighty, otherwise said-to-be perfect but sorta not powerful Hondas: Transmissions.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Honda with a failing AT. I'm shocked! I thought Honda's were bullet proof.
Honda's seem to be the only manufacturer that just denies that they have a problem for almost 2 decades rather than fixing the issues they had early on.


Mr Useless comment. They did acknowledge this >>> http://world.honda.com/news/2002/4020920.html

I would suggest replacing the fluid "again" as a last ditch attempt.

 

[Hokiefyd]

To the OP, I'll apologize up front: this will likely turn into a 3 or 4 page thread with the peanut gallery coming in to poke fun at a failed Honda transmission. "Honda" and "transmission" are unfortunately lightning rods in this forum. It doesn't matter if the transmission has lasted almost 200,000 miles (in truth, a good service life for any FWD transmission)...I'm afraid you'll receive many comments which aren't particularly positive or helpful to you. Just the nature of the internet I guess. But I do apologize anyway, because I don't think it shows very good for our forum, especially when these comments are directed at a brand new member with one post.

I have another thought: have you tried any fluid other than the Z1? Such as Honda's newer DW-1 fluid or an aftermarket fluid like Valvoline MaxLife ATF or Castrol Transmax Import Multi-Vehicle? At this point, it sounds like you have nothing to lose. I'd try either the Valvoline or the Castrol and see how it runs. How black is the fluid that you've drained so far, and how loaded has the magnet been with iron filings?

 

[mister_two]

Originally Posted By: rjundi

I would suggest replacing the fluid "again" as a last ditch attempt.


Will try that this long weekend, I do have plenty of ATF since I bought a whole case online.

Does the fact the transmission act up AFTER it's warm up, could that point to a electrical problem? Most Accord transmission problems I read online seem to suggest bad shifting when cold and slowly getting better once warmed up but my problem is the reverse of that. Just want to rule out other possibilities.

 

[DrDusty86]

rjundi. Heck , even google has thousands of pages. What I say is very real
Lettme guess, you own a SubToynda?
Millions of people buy into the [censored] quality hype every day. I don't feel sorry for you guys.
My dad's prius needed $1000 in repairs before 90k miles.
My Stepmom's Honda van has needed over $10,000 in repairs in the last 5 years..some which WERE warranty. AC compressor, DVD player, CV axles, Wheel bearings, Many batteries, transmissions 3x. and more i'm forgetting.

 

[jrustles]

+1 on replace the fluid, but don't waste your money on Z1- it's old news, costly and never performed very well. Try Maxlife ATF or another import multivehicle, you'll probably have better results than the Z1. If you go with Z1 again, try a bottle of Lubegard Red. If using a DexVI approved ATF, try Lubegard black.

 

[cchase]

Is there a filter on this transmission? Has it been changed?

I'm not sure why it is happening warm, either. And I'm certainly not overly knowledgeable with transmissions.

I am wondering if it is happening when hot because a pump somewhere is unable to provide enough fluid flow to operate the various internal components of the transmission.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: mister_two
Does the fact the transmission act up AFTER it's warm up, could that point to a electrical problem? Most Accord transmission problems I read online seem to suggest bad shifting when cold and slowly getting better once warmed up but my problem is the reverse of that. Just want to rule out other possibilities.


To me, this seems to point to a mechanical problem. More specifically, as the fluid warms and becomes less thick (you could say "as it thins out"), the transmission may not be able to generate enough pressure to orchestrate the shifts correctly. The clutches may not be holding properly. With colder (thicker) fluid, it sounds like it can generate the pressure it needs. This is common with any transmission with some age on it. Seals don't hold as well, pressure gets harder to maintain, etc. Sometimes, stuff just wears out.

If you try an aftermarket fluid, I would try the Castrol Transmax IMV. It's the thickest of any fluid recommended for Honda transmissions (viscosity of 8.0 cSt at 100 deg C, compared with about 6.0 cSt for the Valvoline for example). You may find that this fluid helps to bandaid the problem for a while. I think continuing to change the fluid with more Z1 won't get you any results. You've changed the solenoids (which would have been one of my first efforts as well), and now all that's really left for a DIY-er is to change the type of fluid used. It may not help, but you're really not going to hurt anything at this point.

Good luck!

 

[Chris Meutsch]

The LubeGard Red would be my choice in your situation.

These transmissions did indeed have issues, mostly on the V6 side due to lack of fluid on 3rd gear.

My 2001 Civic went 227k flawless miles on the AT when I sold it, and the 2005 CR-V has 181k flawless miles on it as well. Just this vintage was bad it appears.

 

[mister_two]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
To the OP, I'll apologize up front: this will likely turn into a 3 or 4 page thread with the peanut gallery coming in to poke fun at a failed Honda transmission. "Honda" and "transmission" are unfortunately lightning rods in this forum. It doesn't matter if the transmission has lasted almost 200,000 miles (in truth, a good service life for any FWD transmission)...I'm afraid you'll receive many comments which aren't particularly positive or helpful to you. Just the nature of the internet I guess. But I do apologize anyway, because I don't think it shows very good for our forum, especially when these comments are directed at a brand new member with one post.

I have another thought: have you tried any fluid other than the Z1? Such as Honda's newer DW-1 fluid or an aftermarket fluid like Valvoline MaxLife ATF or Castrol Transmax Import Multi-Vehicle? At this point, it sounds like you have nothing to lose. I'd try either the Valvoline or the Castrol and see how it runs. How black is the fluid that you've drained so far, and how loaded has the magnet been with iron filings?


Thanks for the reply Hokiefyd, although I am new here I am not new to auto forums - I am fully aware of how things can go aride with these types of threads.

No I have not tried other ATF fluids but like you suggest at this point there's nothing to lose other than some $. If I were to try other fluids any suggestions?

Also if it does come to a transmission replacement any suggestion on how to source a used one? I don't think I am up to the job since I don't have the necessary tools (transmission jack) not to mention I don't have the experience - although that's never stop me before

 

[Rand]

The z1 fluid those came with was a joke. degraded very quickly.

Which didnt help their transmission problems any.


20-30k changes and it would still come out black and nasty.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: mister_two
If I were to try other fluids any suggestions?


Yes, and to elaborate on my previous post, there are a number of Dexron-based fluids that are recommended for Honda transmissions. The hot viscosity, measured in cSt and at 100 deg C, varies some between them. You have the genuine Honda fluids, the older Z1 and the DW-1. To my knowledge, the Z1 had a hot viscosity of 7.0-7.5, and the DW-1 is about 6.7 or 6.8.

The Valvoline MaxLife ATF is really a Dexron VI type fluid, with a much lower hot viscosity, around 6.0. In the long run, this is better overall, as this fluid won't shear as much with use as some of the fluids using older chemistry will (like either of the Honda fluids or the Castrol fluid). But we're not interested in fluid durability here, we're interested in seeing if a heavier fluid would improve operation, at least in the short term.

The Castrol Transmax IMV has a hot viscosity of 8.0. This is nearly 10% heavier than the Z1 you have been using and over 10% heavier than the newer DW-1. Again, it may make absolutely zero difference, I don't know. But I would think that if the transmission is experiencing a mechanical problem in building fluid pressure, emblematic of aged seals or similar, a heavier fluid may help.

After replacing the solenoids (which you have done), it's the next thing I'd try.

 

[Schmoe]

We're STILL dogging Honda on this? Geesh....well known problem and Honda fessed up. If you were the original owner, Honda offers a Goodwill program that will replace your tranny for about 500 dollars....been there, done that!!!! Fluid replacement won't fix this. A rebuild is the only thing.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Honda with a failing AT. I'm shocked! I thought Honda's were bullet proof.
Honda's seem to be the only manufacturer that just denies that they have a problem for almost 2 decades rather than fixing the issues they had early on.
Jason, I've seen domestics with 250k plus on the factory AT. By all accounts that Honda died early.
Honda Quality died in the late 90's and this proves it. in the mid 90's you could have an accord go 400k miles with no issues. Today, many owners hang on to that false sense of reliability. Today is is AWESOME for a Honda to go 100k miles without needing some repair of $1,000 or more. PM me and I will share some cars I have experience with like Subaru, Toyota and Honda.
It is common for the owner of an import car to take his car in for "routine" services that are very costly. I talked to one guy about his Corolla at work and he said it costs him about $2300 every 50k miles for Toyota service work. But according to him it has been the best car he has every had. CHOKE...CHOKE. That is the typical Japanese car owner right there. Guys on here are the exception.
300K on a Gen 4 Camry auto -- no problems. AMerican cars are great, foreign cars are bad--- blah blah.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Honda with a failing AT. I'm shocked! I thought Honda's were bullet proof.
Honda's seem to be the only manufacturer that just denies that they have a problem for almost 2 decades rather than fixing the issues they had early on.


Mr Useless comment. They did acknowledge this >>> http://world.honda.com/news/2002/4020920.html

I would suggest replacing the fluid "again" as a last ditch attempt.
+1