Auto-Rx Effective on an Idling Engine???

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I am new to this forum. I purchased auto-rx and would like to know if it will work just the same on an idling engine as one that is being driven. I can even let it idle at a higher rpm if need be in order to increase effectiveness.

The reason I ask is that my motor has 215k miles and I turbocharged it less than 2k miles ago. It was running fine until I switched from 15w50 mobil 1 extended performance to mobil 1 5w30. About thirty miles of driving after switching oils, the valve cover started leaking pretty badly. So I replaced it with a new vavle cover gasket and had it sealed as well as routed a catch can inline with the intake side of the turbo to help decompress the valve cover. It still leaks and my compression is down to 125,125,210,210,205,105. I think normal compression for my motor is ~190 or so. The car has multiple oil leaks (most likely rear main seal as well). I don't want to drive it as I don't do much driving and this is a dedicated autox car. I am pretty sure it has worn rings and seals with heavy sludge. I can't drive the car right now because it always ends up leaking oil thru the valve cover and has trouble starting up again.

If I just let the car idle with autorx in the oil for 3 or 4 hours straight for multiple sessions will that help?
 
Also, I already changed the oil to Shell Rotella 15w40 and changed to a new oil filter (STP which is what I had in my garage at the time).

I figure that if I am on the highway driving at 60 mph that it would take me 25 hours to complete 1500 miles non-stop. My car maintains around 2500 rpm to maintain that speed but I'll have to check that out to see if it is correct.

Thus, would the Auto-Rx do its job if I let my car idle at 2500 rpm in neutral for 25 hours straight? I want to do it this way because the autocross season starts up for me the 1st weekend of April, and I want to be able to do the 3 cycles before it starts. I am going to be substituting miles for hours according to the highway model I proposed in the 1st paragraph.

This way I won't have to worry about issues with being stranded on the road somewhere with a car that won't start.

I would appreciate the advice of the more mechanically inclined and experienced auto-rx users on the plausibility of my idea.

[ March 02, 2006, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: boosted325is ]
 
I kinda did the same thing when I picked up my turbo car. It had been neglected with dino and I think the turbo was pretty coked up. I think I idled mine for 30 hours. I would idle the 1st clean, but you really need to drive it around (make boost) and get it nice and hot. Also, try using the lightest weight allowable (I used a 10w-30) since it will help the A-Rx to splash into the nooks and crannies. Keep us posted.
 
You just turbocharged a tired and sludged up 2.5 that already had over 200k on it? Don't blame the oil for all your new leaks and problems. And now you want to run it at idle for over two days straight? That poor engine.

I'd invest in getting it so it won't leave you stranded (or blow up), and then worry about ARXing it. Why you turbocharged an engine already needing that much service is beyond me. An engine needs to be in very good overall condition before you slap a high-stress blower on it. You've put the cart way ahead of the horse as we say.

The ARX will work quicker and more effectively if you operate the engine at varying speeds once up to temperature . . . i.e., drive it normally.
 
I would fix the worn ring and seals, get the car to the point that it is dependable, then run AutoRX through it if needed.

I don't think the car would ever really get up to full temperature and for sure won't have any load placed on it so any effectiveness with AutoRX would be limited.
 
Thanks for the advice guys.

My priority right now is to clean the rings packs and valve seals, so that the blowby is reduced significantly, without risking being stranded on the highway with a motor that stalls and won't restart reliably. The rear main seal is secondary at this point.

Would idling the car at 2500 rpm be an effective way for autorx to clean the ring packs and valve seals?

[ March 02, 2006, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: boosted325is ]
 
While cleaning the ring packs is one of the first things ARX will accomplish, I think you're going to need to actually drive it, at real-world loads, temperatures and RPMs, for that to happen.

If the engine's compression is so marginal that you have a hard start condition, then you might want to take a weekend, be sure the motor club road service coverage is current, and take it on a very long highway drive, on primary interstates, to nowhere in particular. ARX will work the fastest under those conditions. Burn a full tank of high quality premium fuel and a bottle of techron.
 
I don't understand why the motor has to be under load for auto-rx to do its job effectively. I will be at "real-world" rpms and temperatures (I have a reliable aftermarket water and oil temp gauge installed). My water temps and oil temps run app. 15-30 deg F hotter while the car is idling than when it is moving. Fortunately, these temps are within the margin of safety. Correct me if I am wrong, but with increased engine and oil temps, auto-rx should be optimized to work. As long as oil is circulating in the system, auto-rx should do its job right?

The car starts up just fine on cold start. And maintains idle quite well. It is after the car is driven under boost (it can only maintain 3 psi, even when the wastegate is set at 6 psi, until about 3k rpms and then the boost drops quite quickly to 0 psi in the higher rpms). The turbo system has been checked and seems to be working properly. The wastegate and boost controler are working properly as well. After a drive like this under mild boost, the valve cover will leak severely with oil dripping on the exhaust manifold. If I have to slow down to a stop, the car stalls, and then I have to try multiple times to get it started. There is too much crankcase pressure at that point. Once it cools down and pressures are released, it starts up just fine, i.e. the next day.
 
OK.... NOW I understand the leaking issue when driving. The turbo boost is causing the normally always under (slight) vaccum crank case to become pressurized whenever you have boost.

I wonder if this is also causing more oil consumption out your rear seal, and through the valve seals, and rings.

If I am completely out in left field, I am sorry.... but I'd rather ask the simple question..... and if it gives you a simple solution....then it is a good thing.

I am not up on turbo and super charged engines.....so I am wondering what they do to keep pressure out of the vaccum parts of the engine.

Shouldn't a good PCV valve prevent the pressure from getting into the crankcase? I would think that a different PCV valve....and a few other things would be used for these applications.

These are just questions from the perspective of adding a turbo to a previously non-turbo car....as I am sure they are totally irrelevant with an engine that was built as a turbo car.
 
Well yes I did try to solve the problem of excessive crankcase pressure by changing the stock PCV system. I now have a larger hose that goes to a catchcan and then from the catchcan it runs to the intake side of the turbo. It is definitely doing its job as I see the oil level rising in the catchcan since I first installed it. However, it cannot totally decompress my crankcase as there is overflow showing up as oil seeping from out the cover. Also, I can see oil residue on the hose that goes from the catchcan to the intake side of the turbo. This reassures me that it isnt blocked. I remember once this side of the hose got kinked and my car started smoking white clouds and this side of the hose was completely clear, which told me that the oil was being forced out the valve cover instead.
 
I do not know if the crank case has pressure on a normal (from the factory) engine. It does not make sense to me that it would.....but I am just guessing.

A normal crank case has 2 air routes.
1 is OUT through the PCV valve.
The engine vaccum pulls the air out, and the PCV valve is supposed to prevent air from going into the crank case that way....during boost...you want the PCV valve to be closed....blocking air flow into the crankcase.
When you have NO boost......the manifold vaccum should pull the air (and the nasty fumes) out of the crankcase.

The other route is IN through the crank case breather. This usually has NO check valve, as this is done by the PCV valve at the outlet.

You most likely have no problem with the breather path, but it should also connect at some point before the turbo (non pressure point).
 
The system was as you described when it was N/A. There was a small hose and a large hose attached to the crankcase vent. There must have been a check valve in there as well. The small hose went to the intake manifold and the larger one went to the intake path before the throttle body.

In my turbo setup, I have routed one 5/8" diameter hose from the crankcase vent to a catchcan and from there to the intake side of the turbo. Thus, when the turbo spools up, it creates a vacuum which helps decompress the crankcase.

But since it is not adequate, it must mean that the false seals on my rings and valves must have broken down when I made the switch to Mobil 1 5w30 (which I heard quickly breaks down to a 20w oil once it begins to work). Thus, a light synthetic oil exposed the underlying problem of false seals in my car.

I would think that the idling technique at 2500 rpms (working my way up from one 8 hour session at 1k rpms which is my new idle to a second 8 hour session at 1750 rpm and a third 8 hour session at 2500 rpm) should get some serious cleaning done. Right now, the motor has no autorx in it and after I used water to steam clean the motor by throttling air into the vacuum hose attached to the intake manifold at rpms of 3k or so in neutral, the valve cover had a severe leak. Thus, I am getting significant blowby even with no load.

I hope I can at least get the car roadworthy with no valve cover leaks with my proposed experiment.

What do you guys think?
 
boosted,

I just spoke with Frank Miller, the inventor of Auto-Rx in reguards to your seal leaks and he informed me unless the shaft on the seal is rotating it cannot clean and reseal the leak you have. At the time he posted he overlooked the comment you made about the rear main seal leak.

dbdeland
 
Well, I decided to go ahead and try my experiment with auto-rx today.

I started idling the car at 1550 rpm at ~6:30 pm. My air-fuel ratio is pretty high (>17:1 according to my wideband gauge) so my fuel economy should be very good. My oil temps have been at 220deg F and water temp at 170 degF. Oil pressure is constant at around 10psi and fuel at 45psi. So far the valve cover is holding without any leaks and no oil is dripping onto the exhaust manifold. The oil catch can is flowing vacuum well.

My plan is to idle for 100 hours straight with a fill-up and frequent oil level checks to make sure oil doesnt run low.
 
I just can't believe you would do this (I'm a turbo owner). Just get in the car and drive it. Idling is never good for any engine no matter whate state it's in. Remmember Auto-Rx works when you work it! (I'm the RX importer for Australia and have probably done more RX testing than most here).
 
edit: I shut down after 4 hours. I am changing the strategy to 8 hour sessions only. The oil temp did get to a high of 225 degF and water reach 175degF. I will do this for approximately 50 hours. Then I will try and see if the car can handle a highway drive. I'll keep you guys updated.

Sprintman: The reason I am doing this is to get some ring pack and valve seal cleaning done so that the car is at least road worthy as right now it cannot handle any boost. If I can get it to be somewhat reliable for a highway drive then I will try and take it out.
 
So keep it 'off boost'. I do that all the time in mine when I'm trying to save fuel. Driving gives different RPM hence oil pressure and oil gets sprayed to different areas of the engine. Same RPM leaves areas uncleaned. If the engine will run it surely should be driveable and hence added benefit IMO.
 
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