Sick of the quality of new products

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Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Seems everything these days is disposable,especially cars.

On the contrary. Cars last longer than they ever have. Years ago at less than 100,000 miles they were in the junk yard. I know several people who drive cars that have well over 200,000 miles on them.

This has been beaten to death here ... but indeed, better machining tolerances, metallurgy, MFG processes, oils etc have contributed to engines that are far superior in every aspect - longevity, power per displacement and efficiency.
 
There are probably many root causes for the short life span of newer products, which include design, materials, manufacturing processes, end user environment, etc... It does seem kinda odd that we all want to be green, but produce billions of products each year that end up in the landfill or more properly, recycled.
For a materials example at the washing machine level;
Lets say a manufacturer of a washing machine want to take material cost out of the product. They select a chaeper chinese bearing, and their reliability engineering department tests them and runs a weibull plot on them and finds out that, oh lets say 98% of them will last through the warranty period plus a couple of years. The sourcing guys like it because of the material cost savings result in more proffit. The service guys like it because its more business for them. The sales guys like it bcause they'll sell more washing machines. The marketing guys get a budget increase because of the new found profits to tell us this brand is the best machine you can buy.
Do you think the corporations would pass up this opportunity?
 
Having lived through the time periods where products were supposed to be vastly superior to today's products, I'd have to disagree with the lack of quality-assuming an item is a quality item to begin with. Quality has always been a bell curve, with a few failing soon, the majority lasting a long time, and a few lasting well beyond their expected life span.

I well remember 1950's, 1960's and 1970's cars that were rusted out in 5-6 years. It wasn't unusual to see cars in a junk yard that had 50,000 or 60,000 miles on them. Alternators, generators, starters seemed to routinely failed around 50,000 miles, and 100,000 out of a drive train was the exception rather than the norm. Taking a long trip was an adventure; it wasn't a matter of if you'd break down, it was a matter of where you'd break down. Our current cars (both 2006's) have north of 100,000 miles on them and are completely reliable and have been trouble free. My pickup (a 1999) has about 96,000 on it and has also been trouble free for the 4 years I've owned it.

The junk yards were also littered with washers, dryers and refrigerators that had failed and were junked rather than fixed. When we built our home in 1995 we bought all new kitchen appliances-I've replace the latch on the dishwasher door (a $12 part) and the flap spring on the water/ice maker (about $6). Never a major repair.

About 5 years ago we purchased a new front load washer and dryer because our 25 year old set was not only inefficient, but starting to fail in multiple ways. Problems? When we first tried to run the dryer it wouldn't ignite. The next day we had the replacement part in hand (the manufacturer overnighted it to us), and I removed the old igniter (with a huge Maytag label on it) and replaced it with the new part (without the Maytag label on it) and we haven't had an issue since. We've been happy enough with them that we also purchased the same models for our lake home.

Vacuums? After having several cheaper ones fail (including a Hoover that literally blew up in a shower of sparks) we purchased 3 Dyson vacuums and have not had a problem since. Two at our main house, and one at our lake home. That's been close to 10 years ago and I haven't had a single problem with the Dysons.

Car parts? I haven't had the originals fail in many years, so I haven't had to replace much. The few parts that I have needed to replace have been good quality (timing belts and kits, plugs, etc.).

Computers? I've been around IT most of my adult life, and I can assure you that not only are systems more affordable, but both the hardware and software is vastly superior in quality to the equipment of 20 or 30 years ago. At Burroughs and Unisys we had a fleet of technicians that were always busy at customer sites repairing down equipment. Today's hardware is vastly more reliable, with much higher uptime. And swapping out components is much faster than replacing a memory chip on a board. The software has been made so user friendly and simple that even my mother could understand it well enough to use email.

One of the things that I always get a chuckle from is the folks that complain about a lack of modern quality. I've heard that same complaint for decades-including an old farmer in the 1950's who swore his mule team was more reliable than those new fangled tractors, and a neighbor who was sure the newer cars were worse than his rusted out rattle trap mid-60's Ford Falcon. "Yep" he'd say, "They don't make 'em like this any more".

Thank goodness they don't make 'em like that anymore.

Times change, and it seems that people don't.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Having lived through the time periods where products were supposed to be vastly superior to today's products, I'd have to disagree with the lack of quality-assuming an item is a quality item to begin with.


IMO people align the use of a lot of metal and an item's mass with "quality", which may or may not correlate.

The lack of repair/replacement parts for some items is disconcerting. For some older stuff, a good appliance parts distributor with a working microfiche can seem to find the part numbers for anything. Some of the new stuff appears to have no servicable parts, and while I dont believe it, it does seem that the access to the items is impossible, short of harvesting a carcass.
 
I have had beyond wonderful luck with my Simplicity snow blower and lawn tractor(1 acre). Both 10 years old and not a single issue. Just adjustments and belt replacements.

I think I had to pay 50% - nearly double vs the normal stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Lets say a manufacturer of a washing machine want to take material cost out of the product. They select a chaeper chinese bearing, and their reliability engineering department tests them and runs a weibull plot on them and finds out that, oh lets say 98% of them will last through the warranty period plus a couple of years. The sourcing guys like it because of the material cost savings result in more proffit. The service guys like it because its more business for them. The sales guys like it bcause they'll sell more washing machines. The marketing guys get a budget increase because of the new found profits to tell us this brand is the best machine you can buy.
Do you think the corporations would pass up this opportunity?

BINGO! Small wonder that many service techs receive bonus commission on new products they might sell while at the consumers home.

I had one A/C tech attempt to 'scare' me about R22 in my old system...yea right...he was pushing new A/C at $3000/ton! That's nuts. Then he released some said refrigerant into the atmosphere after quoting some EPA scare tactics....excuse me?...while repairing a leak I discovered.

Next leak, if there is one, I'll save myself $100 and use my own teflon tape....
 
It sounds like we're back to the mantra of "Buy cheap, buy twice". This is why it pays to do research, and sometimes spend a little more for a much better made product.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver

BINGO! Small wonder that many service techs receive bonus commission on new products they might sell while at the consumers home.

I had one A/C tech attempt to 'scare' me about R22 in my old system...yea right...he was pushing new A/C at $3000/ton! That's nuts. Then he released some said refrigerant into the atmosphere after quoting some EPA scare tactics....excuse me?...while repairing a leak I discovered.

Next leak, if there is one, I'll save myself $100 and use my own teflon tape....


Thats just because HVAC is the biggest bunch of thieves in the trades it seems - certainly are far worse than any other tradespeople Ive hired.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It sounds like we're back to the mantra of "Buy cheap, buy twice". This is why it pays to do research, and sometimes spend a little more for a much better made product.


The problem is, buying more expensive doesn't means you don't buy twice. Sometime the expensive ones are just as cheap in the critical parts and they are only cheap ones plus fancy gadgets that ... also breaks ... in addition to the critical parts.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It sounds like we're back to the mantra of "Buy cheap, buy twice". This is why it pays to do research, and sometimes spend a little more for a much better made product.


Yes or as I say buy the best and cry only once...

I don't buy any (try not to) cheap or low quality manufactured products. I research to death and drive my wife and family nuts, but typically I end up with a product that we keep for 10 trouble free years or more.

Everything from our whirlpool front loaders that I purchased new in 2006 which have been completely trouble free to our Blendtec blender to our All-Clad Stainless-Stell Cookware to our Shun knives, etc, etc. Yes more pricey but trouble free!

However not all cheap is necessarily bad, I've found that Ikea Dinnerware is rather good quality and holds up well. It's a game of research and what investment your willing to make, some people think were nuts for a $500 blender but it's now 5 years old and it still works like new, that $99 special at Walmart would've burned out years ago.
 
I can see both sides. No doubt companies nowadays are less concerned today with brand reputation and more concerned with the bottom line. Business has always been about profit though and the modern quality in many items and the manufacturing processes used to produce them are superior that of the past.

I am a firm believer in doing research and buying the best product you can afford (within reason) that meets your needs. Money saved buying cheap is rarely truly saved. My wife and I often find ourselves buying “pro-sumer” or commercial grade items. They may cost more up front but they work well and last.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It sounds like we're back to the mantra of "Buy cheap, buy twice". This is why it pays to do research, and sometimes spend a little more for a much better made product.


The problem is, buying more expensive doesn't means you don't buy twice. Sometime the expensive ones are just as cheap in the critical parts and they are only cheap ones plus fancy gadgets that ... also breaks ... in addition to the critical parts.


A great example is carpeting. Paying more often means better colors or more 'style', but rarely guarantees more performance. Spending more is not a warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
We live in a disposable society in which we buy new stuff every few years.


you summed it up very, very well.
 
I think this has been mentioned, but a lot of it also has to do with how people take care of things (or don't).

The whole "throw it away after 5 years" mentality is the problem, since companies have started building products to fit this mentality. Take cars for example. I've seen 3-5 year old cars that are in much worse shape than my 13 year old Cherokee. I change the oil regularly, drive it carefully, fix problems shortly after they surface, etc. I have a friend with a 5 year old car who thinks it is time to get a new car. She has changed the oil once, the car has the original brakes, suspension, etc. It drives terrible, the paint is coming off, and it only has 80k miles.

I think the problem is society is more concerned with having the "latest and greatest" instead of maintaining what they have.
 
I'm still using my made in USA Tappan microwave oven that I bought in 1989. I hate the wood grain finish on it, but I refuse to throw it out because I know any new microwave oven I buy will need to be replaced every few years. My GF has the exact same microwave oven, and I think it's a year older than mine.

I am also still using a vintage 1989 Eureka upright vacuum cleaner. Even the bags and belts for it are cheap and easy to find, and I doubt I'll have to buy another one. Like my microwave, it's the proverbial tank or energizer bunny.
 
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Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I am also peeved about the lack of a real on/off switch on a lot of newer stuff.


This IMO is the main reason why so many new electronics die early. They are always on standby and the power supply / transformer internally died from the periodic surges from the line, or the power supply capacitors are always working and wear out much faster than those with a real on/off switch.
 
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