How many private sellers sell with no FFL?

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Had a question that has been nagging me for some time. Say that you go on a site like armslist.com; surely everyone here knows what that is. And you see an ad for Private Seller. And their ad makes no mention of FTF transfer only (wouldnt that be a given?) or "We go to a local FFL to accept the transfer," or "must transfer" etc. How many gun owners.. would sell their gun for cash only, and not much else? The old fashioned "kitchen table" sort of deal?

This has nagged at me for awhile. Many get to say "The gun show loophole," maybe they are talking about those that do it that way?
smirk.gif


(Some also cite certain states where you can just sell for cash, and basically thats it. Could ask for ID, sure, but wouldnt have to take it to an FFL...)

How off-base am I?
 
A lot. It's pretty common.

Maybe not in PA, but in the South there are lots of private sellers and not too many care about paperwork. A bill of sale is the most many people around here will do.
 
I have sold for and bought for cash in the past, but it was many years ago and the people involved weren't shady and it wasn't over the internet.

Ask a lot of questions. Look for any feedback and meet in a public place if you sell / buy. Double check your local laws.
 
I sold guns years ago. Unless something has changed drastically, from the Federal perspective, a private non FFL sale only could be legally made between in state residents. If you are out of state, the seller must transfer to an FFL dealer in your state for you to transfer it through the dealer. To buy from an FFL dealer, you must be in the same or adjoining state. You can sell to an FFL dealer in any state.

Along the coast, Mass, Maine and New Hampshire borders are less than 20 miles apart. I bought guns in Maine and the dealer had an "outlet" in New Hampshire where I could do the paperwork and pick up the gun. The main store and the outlet had their own licenses and the store just transferred the gun between them.
 
In Illinois (which is not necessarily a true gauge)every dealer I come in contact with at the gun shows and over the net go thru the proper ffl steps. Occasionally a private seller will sell directly to an ffl. So much depends on the traceability of the serial number.
 
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Originally Posted By: salesrep
In Illinois (which is not necessarily a true gauge)every dealer I come in contact with at the gun shows and over the net go thru the proper ffl steps. Occasionally a private seller will sell directly to an ffl. So much depends on the traceability of the serial number.


Is "Florida" one of the more popular places where, OUTSIDE of a gun show (since County Sheriffs background check every purchase at a gun show, but for NO gun show..) - outside of a gun sow, it is "cash and carry" and if anyone was interested in it being "legal" they would check the ID of the purchaser for 1) Over 21 and 2) In Florida ID?
 
If I was selling a gun that was registered to me, I'd be completely nuts
crazy.gif
to sell it without transferring registration info. Last thing I want is a gun registered to me that is owned by someone else.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If I was selling a gun that was registered to me, I'd be completely nuts
crazy.gif
to sell it without transferring registration info. Last thing I want is a gun registered to me that is owned by someone else.

Exactly!
 
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs

Is "Florida" one of the more popular places where, OUTSIDE of a gun show (since County Sheriffs background check every purchase at a gun show, but for NO gun show..) - outside of a gun sow, it is "cash and carry" and if anyone was interested in it being "legal" they would check the ID of the purchaser for 1) Over 21 and 2) In Florida ID?


The "gun show loophole" has never applied to dealers, only private citizens conducting private transactions. It isn't actually any kind of loophole, gun shows just brought the private buyers and sellers together prior to Armslist.

So you can buy a gun at a gun show with no paperwork involved, just not from a dealer at a booth or from someone out of state. At every gun show I have been to, you could bring your guns in, they check them at the door to make sure they are unloaded and run a zip tie through the slide, then you are free to carry it around and sell it to any adult there who is from that state. Private transactions happen all the time at gun shows, that's why people bring guns there.

Armslist is basically just a 24/7 online gun show.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If I was selling a gun that was registered to me, I'd be completely nuts
crazy.gif
to sell it without transferring registration info. Last thing I want is a gun registered to me that is owned by someone else.

Exactly how I feel. There is no way I'd ever sell a gun that didn't go through an FFL dealer. I wouldn't buy one without going through one either.
 
Here you do not have to through ffl . But there is always paperwork to transfer on handguns, Best and simplest to sell to a cpl holder but its not necessary. you get a form from the PD, both fill in your info and everybody gets a copy.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If I was selling a gun that was registered to me, I'd be completely nuts
crazy.gif
to sell it without transferring registration info. Last thing I want is a gun registered to me that is owned by someone else.

Your State requires you to register firearms? I don't think most require that. It's a popular error people make. I guess too many movies and TV shows.

Anyway there never was a gunshow loophole, it's the private sale loophole the antigunners want to close. But you can't say it that way. Need the buzzwords to rile up the low info crowd.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If I was selling a gun that was registered to me, I'd be completely nuts
crazy.gif
to sell it without transferring registration info. Last thing I want is a gun registered to me that is owned by someone else.

Your State requires you to register firearms? I don't think most require that. It's a popular error people make. I guess too many movies and TV shows.

Anyway there never was a gunshow loophole, it's the private sale loophole the antigunners want to close. But you can't say it that way. Need the buzzwords to rile up the low info crowd.


When I buy a new gun at a dealer, they fill out paperwork that ties me to that gun's serial number. I'd call that "registered".

I would suspect that every state is like this. I highly doubt you can walk into a gun dealership, buy a gun and walk out without some kind of paperwork that the government knows who bought that particular gun.
 
There's a big difference between being able to track who initially bought a new gun, or one sold by an FFL, to registration. If you're worried about it, get a bill of sale. If the BATFEOUTSAW ever shows up looking for the gun tell em you sold it and you fellows have a nice day now.
 
I've never sold a gun through a private sale but I have bought a few. As long as both parties are in the same state there is no need to bring in someone with a FFL.
I saw a Beretta pistol for sale in the local paper and called the guy. I went and looked at it and told him I'd think about it. He called me the next day with a lower price so I met him in the parking lot of a local grocery store and bought it from him. He gave me the pistol in the case and the mags, I gave him a check and we parted ways. The only gun I've ever sold was another pistol I bought as a private sale, it was a Ruger Mark II I paid $200 for. I sold it to my local gun store years later for $175. No paperwork was involved as far as I remember. They checked it out, filled out a small receipt for me to give to the cashier to get my money. Walked out with the cash. What they did with the gun after I left I have no idea. I'm sure they record the make model and serial # but my name wouldn't be on any records for it, if there are any.
I know in Michigan you have to register your handguns with the sheriff's dept but I don't think any other states require that.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If I was selling a gun that was registered to me, I'd be completely nuts
crazy.gif
to sell it without transferring registration info. Last thing I want is a gun registered to me that is owned by someone else.

Your State requires you to register firearms? I don't think most require that. It's a popular error people make. I guess too many movies and TV shows.

Anyway there never was a gunshow loophole, it's the private sale loophole the antigunners want to close. But you can't say it that way. Need the buzzwords to rile up the low info crowd.


When I buy a new gun at a dealer, they fill out paperwork that ties me to that gun's serial number. I'd call that "registered".

I would suspect that every state is like this. I highly doubt you can walk into a gun dealership, buy a gun and walk out without some kind of paperwork that the government knows who bought that particular gun.


When you buy a gun you fill out the ATF form. Most states except for the antis place that form into a file that stays with the FFL.

IF the Weapon is used in a crime and recovered the following happens; (again in sane states)

1. The manufacture of the weapon is notified on who did they send that weapon to.

2. That distributor then is asked where did they sell that weapon to.

3. The dealer (FFL) then looks up in his paperwork that you bought it.

4. Then they contact you and if you sold it then you don't have it that is the end of it.

There is no registration in common sense states. And there is NO Federal registration. (Yet)

When you go through the instant check system they (both Fed/common sense states) hold onto the approval for a few weeks then that info is to be destroyed. I know in our state its gone within the week.

If your dealer (FFL) goes out of business then the forms are to go to the local ATF office.

Some dealers "loose" the paperwork.

Bill
 
That is what I was going to say, the paper work stays with the dealer. They don't send in any registration. Georgia has a state law banning registration. There is a paper trail, but no registration data base.
 
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