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#3007366 - 05/20/13 07:45 AM What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do?
TechnoLoGs Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 2606
Loc: Call it NNJ
I know people love the MOS2 additive can, but I also saw this on amazon.com..

http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-Cera-Te...ui-moly+ceratec

Any use or benefit to it?
_________________________
1993 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer 4.3, the Frankenblazer - 184,440mi. 10/22/13 - WPP Supertech 10W-40
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#3007373 - 05/20/13 07:52 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Bill in Utah Offline



Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 12786
Loc: UT
Just say no.

Not needed and all its purpose is to separate your $$$ from you.

Bill

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#3007449 - 05/20/13 09:48 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Bill in Utah]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3469
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Just say no.

Not needed and all its purpose is to separate your $$$ from you.

Bill


+1 Yeah what he said ^^^^ Coffee
_________________________
The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer...

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#3007506 - 05/20/13 10:43 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
TurboJim Offline


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 829
Loc: Oregon
Liqui Moly MOS2 & Ceratec are both available at NAPA. Some have reported their engines run smoother and quieter with these products.

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#3007650 - 05/20/13 12:35 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
NMBurb02 Offline


Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 1332
Loc: Crowntown, CA
_________________________
2002 Chevy Suburban 1500, G-Oil 5W-30, Napa Gold FIL 4805
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GT, Valvoline ML NG 10W-30 +MMO, Puro PureOne PL10111

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#3007907 - 05/20/13 04:35 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TurboJim]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Liqui Moly MOS2 & Ceratec are both available at NAPA. Some have reported their engines run smoother and quieter with these products.


Are you sure about them being able to order in the Ceratec???

I have NEVER seen it available in their catalog under the Liqui Moly/Lubro Moly section. shrug
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
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#3008168 - 05/20/13 08:39 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dailydriver]
TurboJim Offline


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 829
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Liqui Moly MOS2 & Ceratec are both available at NAPA. Some have reported their engines run smoother and quieter with these products.


Are you sure about them being able to order in the Ceratec???

I have NEVER seen it available in their catalog under the Liqui Moly/Lubro Moly section. shrug


They have Ceratec displayed on the counter at my NAPA.

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#3008207 - 05/20/13 09:18 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Cera-tec is the ultimate additive.
It works the same as mos2 however it uses nano particles of ceramic to create the barrier and the layer is so hard you need a belt sander to grind it off. I have 6 cans of it and will only use it in a newer engine because its so hard to find.
That is the greatest additive on earth. I love the stuff.
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3008292 - 05/20/13 10:58 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Clevy]
TurboJim Offline


Registered: 10/30/04
Posts: 829
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Clevy
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.


How often do you use it? Are you using the entire can per treatment?

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#3008624 - 05/21/13 10:05 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Clevy]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Cera-tec is the ultimate additive.
It works the same as mos2 however it uses nano particles of ceramic to create the barrier and the layer is so hard you need a belt sander to grind it off. I have 6 cans of it and will only use it in a newer engine because its so hard to find.
That is the greatest additive on earth. I love the stuff.
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.

I am not sure if you are serious or playing a joke on us. Most of your replies have been logical and very helpful, so I am having hard time believing with this reply.

I would like to know why ceramic is better than micro particles of sand in the oil. How about crushed diamonds in the oil? Ceramic would be the last thing that I want in my oil.

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#3009519 - 05/22/13 09:37 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: NMBurb02]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA


Thanks, NMBurb02! smile


CERA-TEC
Motor oil additive
With high-tech ceramic anti-wear protection

How does CERA-TEC work?

The graphite-like structure of the ceramic particles enables them to fill in the roughness present in the metal, thereby preventing direct metal-on-metal contact. An active chemical (friction modifier) utilizes the existing friction energy to ensure flowing i.e. non-abrasive – smoothing, annealing the friction and bearing points.

CERA-TEC is a suspension based on a micro-ceramic solid lubricant and chemical active agents in mineral oil. This combination reduces friction and protects the engine and transmission against wear. This in turn prevents expensive repairs and prolongs the life of the assemblies.

CERA-TEC offers high mechanical and thermal stability, ensuring outstanding lubrication even under the toughest conditions. Engine and transmission noise are reduced. It saves energy, reduces fuel consumption and thus also pollutant emissions.

CERA-TEC reacts directly with the surface of the metal and protects your engine for up to 50,000 kilometers - even with the oil being changed during that period.

Properties of CERA-TEC:

CERA-TEC is self-mixing and compatible with all standard motor oils. It is ideal for use in oil-lubricated transmissions, pumps and compressors. Also tested for vehicles with turbochargers, catalytic converters or particle filters. In new vehicles, CERA TEC supports engine break-in and protects against excessive wear. With a particle size of only 0.2 μm, it is absolutely compatible with all filters. Do not use in automatic transmissions and motorbikes with a wet clutch!

How is CERA-TEC applied?

- direct addition to the motor or transmission oil (cold or warm)
- ideally, pour in together with fresh oil when changing the oil
- otherwise apply when there is at least 5,000 km to go before the next oil change so that CERA TEC has plenty of time in which to have an effect

- 300 ml is sufficient for up to 5 liters of motor oil
- the optimal dosage is about 6 % of the total oil fill quantity
- oil change intervals as per the service documents of the vehicle to be followed

Test arrangement image with two interlocking gear wheels.

Who is APL?

Formed in 1989, APL is a neutral and independent, internationally renowned development service provider,
working for a worldwide client base from the automobile, oil and additives industries. The company is specialized in the mechanics of engine and drive trains and their operating supplies. On nearly 145 state of the art engine and component test rigs, more than 700 employees apply the latest measurement technology.

What was tested?

The APL experts determined the relative scuffing load capacity of lubrication oils. Between the edges of the teeth, rolling off and sliding occur at the same time. Due to unfavorable operating conditions the lubricant film can break down between the tooth edges. This leads to short-term local fusion and disintegration of the edges, so-called scuffing, which causes damage to the smooth surface of the teeth edges. Possible consequences: higher engine and transmission noise until failure of the gear wheels occurs.

Test sequence

On the vehicle distortion test bench the test oil was mixed with 6 per cent CERA TEC. With each test sequence the weight, and thereby the force level, on the sensitive transmission gear wheels was increased. The aim of the experiment is to reach the damage force level. This level is reached when the sum of all damage caused to the teeth of the gear wheels is more than 20 millimeters. The test is then ended. The reference oil came up to damage force level 4; the oil mixed with CERA TEC reached as far as level 9, hence to more than double the level. CERA TEC markedly increases the power reserve, which confirms the anti-wear protection by the fine ceramic particles, is how Dipl.-Ing.

Peter Kunz, who supervised the test, summarizes the results. Kunz’s initial skepticism gave way: After the tests I was amazed. The product has made everything, and I really mean everything, better.

Just the demand for APL’s expertise alone has been unusual. LIQUI-MOLY is the first company in the after-sales market that has been prepared to undergo voluntary tests», said Kunz. He is responsible for the testing of lubricants and fuels.

In short: CERA-TEC reduces the amount of friction and thereby the wear. This in turn benefits the engine, which is under less load. This can result in a lower susceptibility to repair and longer service life.

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#3009543 - 05/22/13 09:53 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
BearZDefect Offline


Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 1934
Loc: Lexington, KY
"annealing the friction and bearing points" ?

Really?

I do not mean this question as a knock to the product, but the claim I quoted above sounds suspicious to me. Perhaps the writer doesn't know what anneal means to metalworking, and simply used the word to impress others who don't know either and won't bother to look it up. Or perhaps I have no idea what it means in this context. LOL

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#3009784 - 05/22/13 01:01 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
Ceramic is like graphite? I must have been asleep when they taught some chemistry courses during my engineering school!

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#3010552 - 05/23/13 05:12 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Ceramic is like graphite? I must have been asleep when they taught some chemistry courses during my engineering school!


IIRC The Ceramic they are using in CERATEC is a better lube than graphite.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3010663 - 05/23/13 07:47 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
I am asking some chemical hotshot to explain it me. I understand that at molecular structure, even though they are both carbon forms, I would not use crushed diamonds for lubrication instead of graphite.

In my mind, ceramic is more like crushed diamonds or crushed sand than graphite. Even the ceramic wiki page has no "lubrication" word in it.

I feel the same way about Titanium too.

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#3010676 - 05/23/13 08:07 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Cera-tec is the ultimate additive.
It works the same as mos2 however it uses nano particles of ceramic to create the barrier and the layer is so hard you need a belt sander to grind it off. I have 6 cans of it and will only use it in a newer engine because its so hard to find.
That is the greatest additive on earth. I love the stuff.
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.

I am not sure if you are serious or playing a joke on us. Most of your replies have been logical and very helpful, so I am having hard time believing with this reply.

I would like to know why ceramic is better than micro particles of sand in the oil. How about crushed diamonds in the oil? Ceramic would be the last thing that I want in my oil.


It is actually "white graphite" AKA hexagonal boron nitride. Yes it is a lubricant and no i have no opinion. Google is your friend.

Quote:
Another high-temperature lubricant, hexagonal boron nitride, has the same molecular structure as graphite. It is sometimes called white graphite, due to its similar properties
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ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3010702 - 05/23/13 08:41 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am asking some chemical hotshot to explain it me. I understand that at molecular structure, even though they are both carbon forms, I would not use crushed diamonds for lubrication instead of graphite.

In my mind, ceramic is more like crushed diamonds or crushed sand than graphite. Even the ceramic wiki page has no "lubrication" word in it.

I feel the same way about Titanium too.


Then by all means don't use it. I don't use it because I read it could foul plugs. Opinions vary as with all of these additives.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3010832 - 05/23/13 10:43 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: demarpaint]
Sequoiasoon Offline


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 199
Loc: NY
I have NO CLUE how the Ceratec or M02S performs but wanted to try some. I searched on Liqui-moly to see who carries it locally. All I know is I'm very interested in trying some of their OTHER PRODUCTS!


Edited by Sequoiasoon (05/23/13 10:44 AM)

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#3010909 - 05/23/13 11:54 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
I use their MO2S product and I like it. I liked it even more when it was $4.00 :-) Now it costs $8 :-(

I can understand how that molly can be helpful in lubrication purposes.

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#3010944 - 05/23/13 12:32 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I use their MO2S product and I like it. I liked it even more when it was $4.00 :-) Now it costs $8 :-(

I can understand how that molly can be helpful in lubrication purposes.


It is difficult to understand. If you have some time read up on the pros and cons of coating bullets and burnishing barrels with moly. From my own experiences barrels last longer, and clean up easier, you can also shoot more between cleanings. It is claimed moly reduces friction between the bullet and the barrel. Does this time into automotive applications would be the next logical question? I think a nice coat on engine bearings would be of some benefit. I also think it will fill tiny imperfections on cylinder walls if they are present.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3011082 - 05/23/13 02:11 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
I said, technically I can understand molly can be helpful and my personal experience confirms that.

On the other hand, adding crushed diamonds or fine particles of titanium or micro particles of ceramics to my engine? I have hard time coming up with rational explanation as to how it would be beneficial. It does not matter that the company peddling this product is trustworthy or the person promoting this product has stellar reputation.

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#3011113 - 05/23/13 02:43 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I said, technically I can understand molly can be helpful and my personal experience confirms that.

On the other hand, adding crushed diamonds or fine particles of titanium or micro particles of ceramics to my engine? I have hard time coming up with rational explanation as to how it would be beneficial. It does not matter that the company peddling this product is trustworthy or the person promoting this product has stellar reputation.


Then we go back to don't use it.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3011222 - 05/23/13 04:27 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: demarpaint]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I use their MO2S product and I like it. I liked it even more when it was $4.00 :-) Now it costs $8 :-(

I can understand how that molly can be helpful in lubrication purposes.


It is difficult to understand. If you have some time read up on the pros and cons of coating bullets and burnishing barrels with moly. From my own experiences barrels last longer, and clean up easier, you can also shoot more between cleanings. It is claimed moly reduces friction between the bullet and the barrel. Does this time into automotive applications would be the next logical question? I think a nice coat on engine bearings would be of some benefit. I also think it will fill tiny imperfections on cylinder walls if they are present.


Most current aftermarket piston manufacturers put a moly coating, or patch on their piston skirts. I doubt they are doing this for the heck of it, or just for 'marketing purposes'. wink
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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#3011322 - 05/23/13 05:44 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dailydriver]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I use their MO2S product and I like it. I liked it even more when it was $4.00 :-) Now it costs $8 :-(

I can understand how that molly can be helpful in lubrication purposes.


It is difficult to understand. If you have some time read up on the pros and cons of coating bullets and burnishing barrels with moly. From my own experiences barrels last longer, and clean up easier, you can also shoot more between cleanings. It is claimed moly reduces friction between the bullet and the barrel. Does this time into automotive applications would be the next logical question? I think a nice coat on engine bearings would be of some benefit. I also think it will fill tiny imperfections on cylinder walls if they are present.


Most current aftermarket piston manufacturers put a moly coating, or patch on their piston skirts. I doubt they are doing this for the heck of it, or just for 'marketing purposes'. wink


thumbsup You don't have to sell me on it.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3011747 - 05/24/13 05:17 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15130
Loc: Sunny Florida
As DD said, the coatings on pistons are just one example. Moly has been plated on piston rings as well for ages.

The fact that one does not understand the product takes nothing away from it. Nano tech is here to stay, and ordinary stuff can become remarkable at ultra small sizes...
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J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
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#3011802 - 05/24/13 07:29 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggg why the heck are we discussing molly? there is no controversy about it.

this topic is about ceramics. have you used it in your engine? this goes both to Frank or Steve.

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#3011821 - 05/24/13 07:47 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Vikas
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggg why the heck are we discussing molly? there is no controversy about it.

this topic is about ceramics. have you used it in your engine? this goes both to Frank or Steve.


You mentioned moly I mentioned moly. You have a problem with Ceramics, I said don't use it. I stated why I don't use it, where's the problem? These topics drift, you've been here long enough to know that. smile
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3011880 - 05/24/13 08:40 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15130
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Vikas
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggg why the heck are we discussing molly? there is no controversy about it.

this topic is about ceramics. have you used it in your engine? this goes both to Frank or Steve.


No. I have not. I am rarely the first to try anything new.

As stated above, NANO TECH (which relates to the microscopic particles of anything in oils) is here to stay.

I agree it seems counter intuitive, but many things commonly thought to be understood have remarkably different characteristics under a certain size particle.

I would be willing to try almost anything with LM's name on it due to the high quality reputation they have worldwide.
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3011919 - 05/24/13 09:11 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MBS500 Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 665
Loc: Crestwood,KY
Best way to know is to try same oil for same oci:plain oil,then oil+mos2,then oil+ceratech. I had tried both mos2 and ceratech. Not the same ooil but pretty same oci. Wear numbers were lowest with Ceratec on 1mz-fe which was abused by previouis owner. It was better,but not enough to pay extra $20. I may try later on cars in sig, maybe on those engines it will make more difference.


Edited by MBS500 (05/24/13 09:13 AM)
_________________________
13 Fiat 500Turbo:9k,M1 0w40/Mopar filter+Ceratec
06 BMW 550i:81k,Mag1 5w40/Champ filter+MoS2
06 Frontier:110k,Oil lefovers mix/P1

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#3011939 - 05/24/13 09:26 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: MBS500
I may try later on cars in sig, maybe on those engines it will make more difference.


I suspect that your Fiat Turbo will benefit from the Cera-Tec coating; putting it in the newer engines is best for longterm benefits. Have also had good results with the MoS2 in numerous vehicles over the years.
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#3014395 - 05/26/13 11:48 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gus7 Offline


Registered: 08/14/11
Posts: 12
Loc: va
graphite is BAD news for a lub ...it wear down like a lapping job and ceramics ....[censored] worst than graphite pour in sand !!!

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#3014882 - 05/27/13 03:00 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: MBS500]
dino33 Offline


Registered: 02/11/13
Posts: 72
Loc: British Columbia
If Liqui Moly is correct, and the Ceratec does last for 50K Kms then it would be fairly economical, especially if it drops fuel consumption in any amount. The question is does it actually fully benefit the engine that long? I've heard that drivers in Germany use it at every oci for maximum benefits. Maybe their oci's are longer than 20K? I have a bottle of Ceratec sitting here which I'm planning on putting in on the next oc. I hope to do 20K kms on oci with M1 ep then, if I like the results plan on using 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec on oci thereafter. Clevy uses it on every second oci, alternating with LM moly. If I'm not happy with Ceratec I will give Lubegard's Bio Tech a shot....


Edited by dino33 (05/27/13 03:09 PM)
_________________________
2004 Toyota Prius 96K miles Mobil1 EP Ceratec Trd filter
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#3015393 - 05/27/13 11:51 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dino33]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: dino33
If Liqui Moly is correct, and the Ceratec does last for 50K Kms then it would be fairly economical, especially if it drops fuel consumption in any amount. The question is does it actually fully benefit the engine that long? I've heard that drivers in Germany use it at every oci for maximum benefits. Maybe their oci's are longer than 20K? I have a bottle of Ceratec sitting here which I'm planning on putting in on the next oc. I hope to do 20K kms on oci with M1 ep then, if I like the results plan on using 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec on oci thereafter. Clevy uses it on every second oci, alternating with LM moly. If I'm not happy with Ceratec I will give Lubegard's Bio Tech a shot....



You've misunderstood. I use the ceratec first. Then an interval of just oil,then a full can of mos2,then half a can of mos2 at every oci.
I cannot comment yet on how this has worked out since I've only put 20000 on the hemi.
Once the 4v gets back on the road it will be the real test mule,because its going to be hit with nitrous and still be my dd.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3015402 - 05/28/13 12:18 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Clevy]
dino33 Offline


Registered: 02/11/13
Posts: 72
Loc: British Columbia
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: dino33
If Liqui Moly is correct, and the Ceratec does last for 50K Kms then it would be fairly economical, especially if it drops fuel consumption in any amount. The question is does it actually fully benefit the engine that long? I've heard that drivers in Germany use it at every oci for maximum benefits. Maybe their oci's are longer than 20K? I have a bottle of Ceratec sitting here which I'm planning on putting in on the next oc. I hope to do 20K kms on oci with M1 ep then, if I like the results plan on using 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec on oci thereafter. Clevy uses it on every second oci, alternating with LM moly. If I'm not happy with Ceratec I will give Lubegard's Bio Tech a shot....



You've misunderstood. I use the ceratec first. Then an interval of just oil,then a full can of mos2,then half a can of mos2 at every oci.
I cannot comment yet on how this has worked out since I've only put 20000 on the hemi.
Once the 4v gets back on the road it will be the real test mule,because its going to be hit with nitrous and still be my dd.


Cheers, keep us updated. Especially interested if you see any fuel mileage increases... cheers
_________________________
2004 Toyota Prius 96K miles Mobil1 EP Ceratec Trd filter
1996 Geo Metro gas mizer oil guzzling $300 pizza man car
1987 Ford E150 63k miles

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#3015408 - 05/28/13 12:32 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Dino.
As far as mos2 goes its always led to less fuel consumption.
I'm not sure that cera-tec can help in this regard however that's not why I'm using it. I'm using cera-tec to lessen wear,which I'm confident it does.
147 grain actually linked an article to me about ceratec,and it was tested and proven to lessen or eliminate wear.
I'd love 147 grain to link this thread to that article,I hadn't seen it before however from my own digging I found the theory and idea to be sound,hence my use of it.
Liqui-moly/lubro-moly has proven to me to be a reliable and sturdy company,and I'm confident in their claims of their products. In a market where everything is labelled snake oil their products stand up and prove that they aren't,
Great company,great products.
In regards to cera-tec I had used it in my old 2v in my mustang. When it spit its second plug I decided to go 4v,and ditch the 2v,but I tore the 2v apart to sell in the mustang forums.
The cera-tec actually filled in the wear scar on both cams,and left a layer behind that was so hard I used a nail to try and scratch it to no avail. It would have taken a belt sander to remove the layer cera-tec left behind,which tells me that cera-tec eliminates metal on metal contact,which in my mind eliminates wear.
Just my experience. Your results may vary.
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2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3015420 - 05/28/13 01:53 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MBS500 Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 665
Loc: Crestwood,KY
This topic reminded me to go get it. I used it and MoS2with good result. Just ordered 8 cans from bav autosport, since they have it for cheapest price- $20 and free shipping if it's more than $150 order.
Anyway people often afraid that it will mess with their plugs.
Will see, will use it with every oil change in FIAT, since it is easy to change plugs and they are due every 32k miles anyway. Correct dosage, little less than full can, and dump rest to bimmer.
Fiat's little engine is little noisy (they all do that), will see maybe it will actually quite it down a little.
_________________________
13 Fiat 500Turbo:9k,M1 0w40/Mopar filter+Ceratec
06 BMW 550i:81k,Mag1 5w40/Champ filter+MoS2
06 Frontier:110k,Oil lefovers mix/P1

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#3015607 - 05/28/13 09:53 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
Is Ceratec this good for worn out engine or only for new engine? I would have no trouble putting liquid sand in my lawn mower provided it came with stellar review :-) I have had it with it.

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#3015962 - 05/28/13 04:33 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MBS500 Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 665
Loc: Crestwood,KY
I've heard claims that it good for both. New - it covers and protects engine internals - old ones- it fills gaps,scratches and so on and significantly lowers rattle, tapping and so on. Some use it with thick oil before selling half dead car before sale in EU.
_________________________
13 Fiat 500Turbo:9k,M1 0w40/Mopar filter+Ceratec
06 BMW 550i:81k,Mag1 5w40/Champ filter+MoS2
06 Frontier:110k,Oil lefovers mix/P1

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#3270918 - 02/05/14 12:21 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Clevy]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Cera-tec is the ultimate additive.
It works the same as mos2 however it uses nano particles of ceramic to create the barrier and the layer is so hard you need a belt sander to grind it off. I have 6 cans of it and will only use it in a newer engine because its so hard to find.
That is the greatest additive on earth. I love the stuff.
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.


Clevy could you give us an update.

We finally got the 2002 Polaris 325 ATV engine top end torn down and removed the connecting rod after getting 11.5 hours of run time at a fast idle on the engine running Liqui Moly Ceratec in Mobil 1 10w-40 High Mileage engine oil.

We bought this 'project' ATV with a known damaged engine due to being ran bone dry of motor oil when the guy blew an oil cooler line when running down the road. It turned out the crankshaft was chewed up as well as the connecting rod after being ran with the rod inserts spinning in the rod cap.

Picked up a used rod off of eBay and went back with Standard size rod inserts and a new set of rings after we smoothed off the crankshaft some 180 grit emery strips by hand with the crankshaft still in the ATV (did not split the engine case) then hit it a bit with 800 grit paper.

After about 10 total hours of idle time with it setting in an open shop I could hear a knock when getting on the throttle hard at no load.

While there was little hope it would hold up I was surprise after over 11 hours of run time as noted above that it still was making good power and on tear down the rod inserts were getting thinner but had NOT spun and the used connecting rod looked fine after about 11.5 hours. The crankshaft still has groves in it from the initial damage of running without motor oil but the groves now feel smooth in the direction of rotation but are still there if you feel from side to side of the rod journal on the crank.

The test of Liqui Moly Ceratec was a success in that the kids good some wrenching experience after two tear downs and one assembly and we know the Ceratec does lay down a smooth glassy looking coat in places of imperfections on inspecting the cylinder and cam on tear down.

We only had a window of about 6 hours where it was warm enough to tear down and look at the parts after the engine had idled for the 11+ hours with Ceratec in the oil at the rate per Liqui Moly states on the can.

Since Sunday afternoon we have now had two back to back ice storms and currently the lights are blinking and going off from time to time. The rain stopped a couple hours ago but tree limbs are popping as they freeze harder and the wind is getting stronger.

At some point (maybe March) since we are having a 'real' winter for the first time in many years I want to get some photos but not sure I have the equipment to do a good job. The glassy finish (on parts that saw a lot of pressure/friction) may rule out the use of a flash.

I can tell you the piston shirts still looked bad. Keep in mind we put the engine back together with the same 12 year old parts that are OEM except for the used rod and new standard size rings and rod bearings that it had when it was driven without motor oil running down a paved road until the farmer heard the engine knocking over the tire and wind noise.

While the cylinder seems to show some taper from but just the piston skirts it seems Liqui Moly Ceratec will NOT leave a ceramic finish on imperfect parts if the is not real friction/pressure between the moving parts of the engine.

We have picked up a very tight bottom end that includes the crank and connecting rod so when we get ready to 'quit' having fun tearing down and rebuilding we and put it back together with a good crank.

We have proved to ourselves that Liqui Moly Ceratec does as Liqui Moly states on their website. For an engine with a bad crank (rough and slightly under size) to run for 1,000,000 revolutions would be hard to explain with just motor oil in my mind. For the first hour it was a struggle for the engine and I expect that was when it was making a lot of metal.

Our control for the evaluation of Liqui Moly Ceratec is a 2001 with the same 325 Polaris ATV engine. We tore it down and put the same new rod bearings and brand of standard size rings using the same motor oil but the crankshaft was very good and the removed rod bearings showed no measurable wear after 13 years of a much harder life than of the 2002 until it blew the oil cooler hose.

The cylinder temps of the 2002 with the bad crank during the first hour of running hit 350F degrees the 2001 as our 'control' never went over 300F degrees but it only was idled for about one hour.

I guess we will put Ceratec in the 'control' ATV at some point but it will be after our Mini Ice Age. frown

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#3271174 - 02/05/14 10:34 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Cera-tec is the ultimate additive.
It works the same as mos2 however it uses nano particles of ceramic to create the barrier and the layer is so hard you need a belt sander to grind it off. I have 6 cans of it and will only use it in a newer engine because its so hard to find.
That is the greatest additive on earth. I love the stuff.
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.


The test of Liqui Moly Ceratec was a success .... and we know the Ceratec does lay down a smooth glassy looking coat in places of imperfections on inspecting the cylinder and cam on tear down .... with Ceratec in the oil at the rate per Liqui Moly states on the can.

We have proved to ourselves that Liqui Moly Ceratec does as Liqui Moly states on their website. For an engine with a bad crank (rough and slightly under size) to run for 1,000,000 revolutions would be hard to explain with just motor oil in my mind. For the first hour it was a struggle for the engine and I expect that was when it was making a lot of metal.

Our control for the evaluation of Liqui Moly Ceratec is a 2001 with the same 325 Polaris ATV engine. We tore it down and put the same new rod bearings and brand of standard size rings using the same motor oil but the crankshaft was very good and the removed rod bearings showed no measurable wear after 13 years of a much harder life than of the 2002 until it blew the oil cooler hose.


Thank-you for the feedback. I use this stuff in all my vehicles and agree that it performs as advertised.
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#3271194 - 02/05/14 10:52 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Wow Gale,that's what I call real world data.
I had ceratec in my old sohc 4.6 that I decided to tear apart because it spit a plug. Engine had 200k or so,with at least 50 15 pound bottles of nitrous sprayed through it,some of it at a 175hp wet shot.
My stock cams felt like new. I had ceratec in for about 50k,then mos2 after ceratec at a half dose.
With 3.90 gears that mustang with the sohc 4.6 got 26mpg on the highway. In the city it got substantially less however I would enjoy myself from just about every stop light.
That car ran a 12.76 on drag radials and a 125hp shot. It was roasting the tires all the way down the track. It was a lot of fun.
I've got a 4v in that car now.
So you've gotten a lot further as far as data with tear downs. I won't have another one til I change out the chev's 5.3 in about 100k or so. It's still running like a dream so no point ripping it apart yet.
Thanks for the update Gale. It's nice to know for sure that liqui-moly is a stand up real company who sells products that perform as advertised.
They always have for me but anecdotes don't go far here.
Heck I tracked mileage in my charger for 10k miles and even my updates were questioned and I was called a liar,which really made no sense to me. It's not like I profit by selling any of their stuff.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3271226 - 02/05/14 11:19 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
147_Grain you are welcome. I just learned about nano technology use in motor oil a few months ago and it caught me off guard concerning the advances that have been made.

Having this blown 325cc Polaris engine to use as a shop project for training the son and daughter (ages 16) on wrenching got me to thinking about how I could objectively see if nano technology use in engines was more than snake oil. Being in research of new info about new things I hit upon this project with Liqui Moly Ceratec that would require the tear down of an engine AFTER Ceratec use to have any real meaning to myself or others.

Since I have learned about Archoil. Have you read about this company. It seems they are just breaking into retail sales (not sure why) but have years of history in supplying nano technology for ships, locomotives and other very heavy equipment.

If you will read about Archoil AR9300 and share your thoughts as to if it may be better or worse than Ceratec I would appreciate it. I have purchased a small bottle of AR6200 fuel additive but due to winter storms and lack of time and money have not bought any of their motor oil additives like AR9100 or AR9300 to use/test.

In time I will try to work with the kids to pull together photos the best we can as how Ceratec actually did coat some parts with a hard smooth new surface. Folks we are not talking about adding metal to any degree. From reading it seems like a coating may only be a couple microns thick but that would mean no metal to metal contact of engine parts on cold starts or due to sheared motor oil.

Thanks again for your thoughts on our project and AR9300 from just reading about it.

It pains me to see how some multilevel marketing groups are abusing the marketing of nano technology in that they sound like snake oil salesman.

I have proved to myself Ceratec is not snake oil and would like to see what companies offer the most in the way of nano based technology to reduce engine friction.

Thanks Clevy for your post when I was writing mine. I too am bother by those who call everything new 'snake oil' because they are unable/unwilling to prove it one way or another.

I learned many years ago when a company with a track record like Liqui Moly or Archoil typically have evidence that their marketing statements can be supported in a court of law. smile

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#3271960 - 02/05/14 10:33 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Thanks for the write up Gale. I have a few observations/questions based on reading up on the product, although I haven't tried it. I'm wondering if it is a good idea once an engine is treated with it, not to introduce MoS2 and just add a small maint dose of Ceratec at each OCI after the initial full bottle treatment? Archoil which has a similar product recommends dosing at each OCI IIRC which is why I'm leaning toward a main't dose of Ceratec.

I also think that once an engine has been treated with MoS2 Ceratec won't be able to coat/plate the surfaces because MoS2 has already done its own coating/plating. In other words once you start with Ceratec stick with it, the same holds true for MoS2. This is just my opinion based on reading up on the product and nothing more.
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#3272000 - 02/05/14 11:22 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
demarpaint there is a post claiming to be from Liqui Moly tech that stated to use Ceratec then use MoS2 for the next 2-3 OCI then Ceratec again.

You may be on to something based on info from Archoil about their AR9300 that is made to sound like Ceratec on steroids. smile

Archoil suggest AR2300 a few 1000 miles before an oil change then new oil and add AR9300. It sounds like the cleaner the surface the better it attracts/holds both MOS2 and nano variations of Boron. Note in your post you are talking about AR9100 which is called a second generation nano boron additive.

You must compare Ceratec to AR9300 to be apples to apples because AR9300 does built a film that does NOT leave with an oil drain.
AR9100 leaves the engine shortly after an OCI.

Your logic to use Ceratec as labelled the first time then a fractional dose after each oil change does make sense to me. Should something start to fail the Ceratec would be there to start coating new bare metal.

I noticed the nice finish on both steel and aluminum bearing surfaces. Ceratec does stop building thickness at some point based on what I read yet it does wear off.

We really can only go the info passed out by the makers of this nano technology.

There is no way of proving the validity of its usage without tearing down an engine after 3K miles or what ever mileage the maker claims max film thickness occurs.

While our testing does not give a lot of info but now at least I know Ceratec does lay down a hard shiny film IF there is heat and pressure points.

I will look at the timing chain and see if it looks or feels different. One concern I have that could be an issue was the bearing contact with the rough crankshaft was making some metal and do not know if the oil filter was catching it all or not during our 11.5 run time.

Hope we will read more tear down results by others in 2014.

I am sold on the fact Ceratec works and would extend that to include other nano tech usage in lubrication do work to reduce friction. Archoil states the use of AR9100 (really big with the Ford 6.0, etc diesels) or AR9300 with double the OCI. That alone would cover its cost.

The below is from GEARSolutions:

"These two methods, mechanical and chemical reduction of friction, can also be combined. Cera Tec from LIQUI MOLY is such a product. Originally it was developed for use in motor oil in cars, but it is also beneficial in transmissions. Instead of molybdenum sulfide, it contains minute ceramic particles with a hexagonal boron nitride base. These not only increase performance, they also provide an additional advantage: They adhere so tenaciously to the metal, that they even withstand an oil change providing virtually the same performance in the new oil. The result is a highly effective wear protection additive with exceptional resistance to high temperature and pressure. Its use is not limited to engines, because it can also be used in compressors, pumps, and transmissions. The ceramic particles are smaller than 0.5 μm, allowing them to pass easily through the oil filter."

"However, the use of LIQUI MOLY is not limited only to large transmissions. The vehicles used in the mines now also benefit from the extra protection provided by LIQUI MOLY, and this pays off. “We used to have to change the motor oil in our excavators and dumpers every 250 hours, and now only every 500 hours,” according to Graven. In the meantime, more than a dozen mines in South Africa benefit from the additional protection."

http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/detail/6177/protecting-massive-gears is the source.

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#3272088 - 02/06/14 05:13 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Hi Gale-The reason why I suggested sticking with either MoS2 or Ceratec was based on a string of emails I had with someone from Lubro Moly. Then reading here and chatting with my buddy Clevy we discovered the info to be a bit confusing. At any rate both Ceratec and Archoil's products interest me, and is worth further investigation. There was also talk of Ceramic products fouling spark plugs some time ago as well.

With regard to AR9300, is it even available in the USA to buy? Thanks-
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#3276903 - 02/10/14 11:26 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
a2gtinut Offline


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Earth
9300 is available but it is $50 to mix with 4-5 liters of engine oil. Need to call them and ask for it.

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#3278039 - 02/11/14 01:00 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: a2gtinut]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: a2gtinut
9300 is available but it is $50 to mix with 4-5 liters of engine oil. Need to call them and ask for it.


Good to know.
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#3287428 - 02/19/14 04:38 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Tron1 Offline


Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 31
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA USA
I put a can of Lubro Moly in the crankcase of my Venza last month. It is hard to determine, from the drivers seat, any performance enhansment. However, when is too much moly a bad thing? The quote for an internet site makes this statement...

"Also, molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and
cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil
formula having "moly" will also contain a copper deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly
compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses
it's potency after a few thousand miles, which can be seen in used oil analyses of moly rich oils having higher

than normal copper levels. Link Additionally, there is documentation in various SAE publications showing a
vast number of different species of moly friction modifiers, some providing better wear than fuel savings and
vice-versa, and unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine how a friction modified oil is formulated
other than to assume that a GF-4 or energy conserving oil is most likely to bias fuel savings for lower wear
protection . . ."

I would be interested in a discussion on the merits of the above quote.
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#3287459 - 02/19/14 05:21 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Tron1]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Tron1
I put a can of Lubro Moly in the crankcase of my Venza last month. It is hard to determine, from the drivers seat, any performance enhansment. However, when is too much moly a bad thing? The quote for an internet site makes this statement... "Also, molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and
cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases... "

Just as a point of clarification, you are talking about Liqui-Moly Oil Additive product - the L-M MoS2 additive? This additive product was formerly known as L-M Anti Friction.

If you are referring to Liqui-Moly Ceratec, which was the subject of this thread, it does not appear to contain MoS2. The 'Liqui-Moly' part of this product's title is simply the company's current name.

If there's a moderator in the house, maybe he could make this a new thread.
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#3287559 - 02/19/14 06:50 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
Tron1 Offline


Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 31
Loc: SACRAMENTO, CA USA
Thanks Dave for the info. I will attempt to repost in the appropriate thread.
Ron
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1965 Shelby Superformance Cobra - Honda S2000 - Toyota Venza V6 - Ford Crown Vic Police Inteceptor (for sale)

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#3287561 - 02/19/14 06:51 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Go to the website,or read the back of a can. It's explained simply and completely.....and it works as advertised
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2006 Charger RT
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#3287580 - 02/19/14 07:06 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Here's a few links:

Cera Tec

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_3721.html?Opendocument&land=DE

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/3721%20Cera%20Tec_EN.pdf/$file/3721%20Cera%20Tec_EN.pdf


MoS2 Lubro Moly

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1011.html?Opendocument&land=DE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qMJ1Fl1B77E


Additive Overview

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx/2D2A7C2D3D0CCA42C12573DA00315AAF/$file/5616.pdf

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#3288215 - 02/20/14 10:08 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: gus7]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: gus7
graphite is BAD news for a lub ...it wear down like a lapping job and ceramics ....[censored] worst than graphite pour in sand !!!



You can expect to be taken seriously can you
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#3288510 - 02/20/14 02:17 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Why would one add another borate when you already have something similar to this in fully formulated motor oils?


Borate Ester
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#3288648 - 02/20/14 04:31 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: MolaKule]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Why would one add another borate when you already have something similar to this in fully formulated motor oils?


Borate Ester


^^^How do we know for sure that ALL fully formulated motor oils contain this already?? shrug
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#3288677 - 02/20/14 05:04 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dailydriver]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Why would one add another borate when you already have something similar to this in fully formulated motor oils?

Borate Ester


How do we know for sure that ALL fully formulated motor oils contain this already?


Well, you could look here. Sadly, the use (or not) of boron is all over the landscape - 2ppm or less in Lucas, Royal Purple, Pennzoil Platinum, up to 245ppm or more in Mobile Super Synthetic, Kendall GT-1 and Shell Formula. If you're a Pennzoil fan but have to have your daily boron, then get Pennzoil Ultra (152ppm); Mobil-1 checks in at 108ppm.
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#3349460 - 04/21/14 07:31 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
I created an account here to ask a few questions on this product. Is liqui-moly ceratec OK to use with a magnetic drain plug? I am planning to change my oil soon and should I use this in conjuction with MOS2 when I do the oil change? Or should I just use ceratec and then on the next oil changes use MOS2 and use ceratec instead at every 30k miles? (Ceratec at every 30k miles and MOS2 every oil change?)


Edited by Jteran5 (04/21/14 07:32 PM)
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#3349650 - 04/21/14 09:57 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
I created an account here to ask a few questions on this product. Is liqui-moly ceratec OK to use with a magnetic drain plug? I am planning to change my oil soon and should I use this in conjuction with MOS2 when I do the oil change? Or should I just use ceratec and then on the next oil changes use MOS2 and use ceratec instead at every 30k miles? (Ceratec at every 30k miles and MOS2 every oil change?)

No problem on magnetic drain plugs.

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.
_________________________
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2008 Corolla LE

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#3349696 - 04/21/14 10:36 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
domer10 Offline


Registered: 02/26/14
Posts: 234
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
I created an account here to ask a few questions on this product. Is liqui-moly ceratec OK to use with a magnetic drain plug? I am planning to change my oil soon and should I use this in conjuction with MOS2 when I do the oil change? Or should I just use ceratec and then on the next oil changes use MOS2 and use ceratec instead at every 30k miles? (Ceratec at every 30k miles and MOS2 every oil change?)

No problem on magnetic drain plugs.

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.




Why does one need to have smoothing wrong to use a additive? This reasoning is getting old. I have nothing wrong, what I want to do is prevent less wear, and that what this is advertised to do. I like to take care of my things, nothing wrong with them, I am not trying to "solve" any problem, in fact I am trying to prevent problems.

I have used both extensively in all motorized applications, Im running mos2 in my bmw m3, after this run I am putting ceratec in it, I want to do a lab test before ceratec to see if it prevents a lot less wear. I run MoS2 every oil change after ceratec but this time wanted to do a before and after to see if I am actually preventing less wear.
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2012 Dodge Ram Sport
2002 BMW M3
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#3349721 - 04/21/14 11:05 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: dave5358

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.


I just picked up a 2014 Subaru Sti. I want to get the most life out of it. I want the best protection for the engine. I figured that ceratec was a good additive to use every 30k as instructed and that the MoS2 was a good additive to use every oil change.


Edited by Jteran5 (04/21/14 11:07 PM)
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#3349758 - 04/22/14 12:13 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
domer10 Offline


Registered: 02/26/14
Posts: 234
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Originally Posted By: dave5358

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.


I just picked up a 2014 Subaru Sti. I want to get the most life out of it. I want the best protection for the engine. I figured that ceratec was a good additive to use every 30k as instructed and that the MoS2 was a good additive to use every oil change.



You are doing the right thing. Reduce friction, reduce wear.....and the pro's are endless.
_________________________
2012 Dodge Ram Sport
2002 BMW M3
2008 BMW 135i

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#3349835 - 04/22/14 06:48 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: domer10]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: domer10


You are doing the right thing. Reduce friction, reduce wear.....and the pro's are endless.


Would it be okay to use both ceratec and MoS2 on the same oil change or no?
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#3349844 - 04/22/14 07:08 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: domer10]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2657
Loc: Upper Midwest
If only there was a way you could show it does any of those things.

Originally Posted By: domer10
You are doing the right thing. Reduce friction, reduce wear.....and the pro's are endless.
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#3349883 - 04/22/14 08:06 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Would it be okay to use both ceratec and MoS2 on the same oil change or no?


Liqui Moly says that Cera Tec is their best friction modifier and recommends you use Cera Tec (at a 5% - 6% dose) without the MoS2 Lubro Moly.

The MoS2 should ideally be used during each oil change after the initial application of Cera Tec, which has long-term binding properties. Using Lubro Moly (MoS2) separately from Cera Tec ensures that both products won't be competing with each other and a higher quality layer of Cera Tec will bind more effectively to metal surfaces.

No harm will be done should MoS2 and Cera Tec be combined, but they will both be competing with each other unnecessarily.

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#3349913 - 04/22/14 08:40 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Would it be okay to use both ceratec and MoS2 on the same oil change or no?


Liqui Moly says that Cera Tec is their best friction modifier and recommends you use Cera Tec (at a 5% - 6% dose) without the MoS2 Lubro Moly.

The MoS2 should ideally be used during each oil change after the initial application of Cera Tec, which has long-term binding properties. Using Lubro Moly (MoS2) separately from Cera Tec ensures that both products won't be competing with each other and a higher quality layer of Cera Tec will bind more effectively to metal surfaces.

No harm will be done should MoS2 and Cera Tec be combined, but they will both be competing with each other unnecessarily.


I got conflicting info from them with regard to using both products. Basically one person from their company said if you use Ceratec stick with Ceratec, don't change over to MoS2, and vice versa. Another person said it was fine.

As you mentioned both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.
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#3350396 - 04/22/14 06:50 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: demarpaint]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.


I agree!

I just summarized the e-mail I received from a Liqui Moly Technician in German and he did not recommend using both products at the same time.

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#3350681 - 04/22/14 11:16 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.


I agree!

I just summarized the e-mail I received from a Liqui Moly Technician in German and he did not recommend using both products at the same time.

Not at the same time, but it's OK to use the MoS2 between 30k ceratec intervals, right?
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'14 Subaru Impreza STI hatchback (Castrol 0w40 with '09+ Mazda RX8 Tokyo Roki oil filter )

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#3350747 - 04/23/14 02:16 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
It's OK to use the MoS2 between 30k ceratec intervals, right?

Yes, but not necessary to use the Mos2 with Cera Tec every 30K.

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#3350760 - 04/23/14 05:01 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.


I agree!

I just summarized the e-mail I received from a Liqui Moly Technician in German and he did not recommend using both products at the same time.

Not at the same time, but it's OK to use the MoS2 between 30k ceratec intervals, right?


In the case of my communications with them, it depends on who replied. One member of their staff said if you start with Ceratec you should continue with Ceratec, and the same goes for MoS2. Another person said it was fine to switch off. Several members here have switched off with no problems to report. My only beef is everyone at LM should be on the same page. hide That is not an attack against them or their products, I was stating what I learned by emailing them. For the record I occasionally use their products and had good results. IIRC other members emailed them and were told switching off is not a problem.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3350872 - 04/23/14 08:27 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
demarpaint:

I appreciate your contributions on this fine Forum and agree that the technicians at Liqui Moly should be on the same page, but there is enough data to give us a general idea that the products perform as advertised.

To summarize things from my perspective, I dug-up the following e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn" <Harry.Hartkorn@liqui-moly.de>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains (to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition (specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment, extreme pressure and hot conditions).

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

I. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
Application Engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote

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#3350894 - 04/23/14 08:54 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
demarpaint:

I appreciate your contributions on this fine Forum and agree that the technicians at Liqui Moly should be on the same page, but there is enough data to give us a general idea that the products perform as advertised.

To summarize things from my perspective, I dug-up the following e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn" <Harry.Hartkorn@liqui-moly.de>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains (to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition (specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment, extreme pressure and hot conditions).

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

I. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
Application Engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote

Great. This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for the information.
Quick question, is the 5-6% replacing the oil or is it in addition to the the normal fill?
_________________________
'14 Subaru Impreza STI hatchback (Castrol 0w40 with '09+ Mazda RX8 Tokyo Roki oil filter )

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#3350898 - 04/23/14 09:06 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
I subtract the additive from the normal amount of oil that otherwise would have been added.

However, most vehicles take more oil than is listed on the spec sheet so an extra 10-oz's won't hurt anything.

Cera Tec and MoS2 come in 300L bottles which is approximately 10-oz's.
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2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
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#3350913 - 04/23/14 09:29 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
demarpaint:

I appreciate your contributions on this fine Forum and agree that the technicians at Liqui Moly should be on the same page, but there is enough data to give us a general idea that the products perform as advertised.

To summarize things from my perspective, I dug-up the following e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn" <Harry.Hartkorn@liqui-moly.de>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains (to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition (specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment, extreme pressure and hot conditions).

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

I. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
Application Engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote


Thanks for the kind words. I was just sharing my experience in communicating with two different people from LM a while back. As I already mentioned people are using both products, just don't use both at the same time and you should be fine. I think they make good products so I am in no way bashing them.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3350944 - 04/23/14 09:52 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
If Ceratec is a coating, why is it needed on new engine? Not only it is not needed, would it not lead to more problems? Think what coating is trying to do. It is trying to reduce the clearance between the cylinder bore and piston rings. If the engine is new, is the reduction advisable?

Additives in new engine seems counter productive and might lead to problems rather than solving any non-existent issues. It is like throwing unneeded antibiotic at a body. It will only do harm.

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#3350991 - 04/23/14 10:27 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If Ceratec is a coating, why is it needed on new engine? Not only it is not needed, would it not lead to more problems? Think what coating is trying to do. It is trying to reduce the clearance between the cylinder bore and piston rings. If the engine is new, is the reduction advisable?

Additives in new engine seems counter productive and might lead to problems rather than solving any non-existent issues. It is like throwing unneeded antibiotic at a body. It will only do harm.

I feel that the coating will prevent metal on metal contact. I would rather use this now that there are no problems rather than use it when I have there are issues.
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#3351334 - 04/23/14 06:38 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If Ceratec is a coating, why is it needed on new engine? Not only it is not needed, would it not lead to more problems? Think what coating is trying to do. It is trying to reduce the clearance between the cylinder bore and piston rings. If the engine is new, is the reduction advisable?

Additives in new engine seems counter productive and might lead to problems rather than solving any non-existent issues. It is like throwing unneeded antibiotic at a body. It will only do harm.

I don't think it is much of a coating as we think a coating should be like chrome or plasma or hard moly coating on rings.

I think its works on a micro level that would be hardly measurable even with a very accurate micrometer. That is not my concern, my concern is drop out.
I see it posted that these products stay mixed but my compressor says otherwise. I can see in the sump through a small glass, the Ceratec is in the corners of the sump and not mixed.
How much i cant say without tearing it apart which i am not going to do but some did definitely fall out of suspension.

I have no real interest in these products anymore, if people want to use them its their thing but as far as putting solids into the oil its not for me.
IMHO oils have gotten so good in the last few years they don't need any sort of "boost", back in the day i believe there was a place for them as the oils were junk in comparison.
I have an unopened bottle of this stuff here and am not comfortable putting it in anything.

I am not knocking the product or the company, its just my 2c.
_________________________
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#3351859 - 04/24/14 10:46 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
Does the oil get hot in your compressor? I wonder if the oil needs to be hot for these additives to actually mix with the oil. But what if they separate once the oil temperature drops? That is not good either.

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#3351879 - 04/24/14 11:09 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Does the oil get hot in your compressor? I wonder if the oil needs to be hot for these additives to actually mix with the oil. But what if they separate once the oil temperature drops? That is not good either.


That's a good question, I wonder what their response would be to Trav's observations.
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GOD Bless our Troops


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#3351888 - 04/24/14 11:25 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
The oil seems to get hot enough if i run it up from empty and really use it with high flow tools. Hot enough for any sort of a bonding, i have no idea.
My cars don't get used very much and sit all winter or all summer so drop out is a serious concern for me. Maybe on a daily driver its a non issue but i wouldn't put money on it.
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#3351892 - 04/24/14 11:32 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
I bought two bottles of Ceratec this week at a nearby NAPA warehouse for $12.00!!! I think the counter guy made a mistake...in fact I told him I didn't think the price was right. He looked at his computer and said the price was right. They had only two bottles on the rack and I bought both. I'll add the Ceratec at the next oil changes on my two vehicles. Both vehicles have a 6 qt sump...i'm thinking 1 bottle in each will be close to the recommended 6%.


Edited by gman2304 (04/24/14 11:33 AM)

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#3352034 - 04/24/14 02:41 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
what is the NAPA part number on your receipt?

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#3352302 - 04/24/14 09:03 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
The counter guy typed in the number on the bar code label off the box of Ceratec. I'll try to find the receipt...but our trash pick up was yesterday.

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#3353483 - 04/25/14 11:45 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If Ceratec is a coating, why is it needed on new engine? Not only it is not needed, would it not lead to more problems? Think what coating is trying to do. It is trying to reduce the clearance between the cylinder bore and piston rings. If the engine is new, is the reduction advisable?

Additives in new engine seems counter productive and might lead to problems rather than solving any non-existent issues. It is like throwing unneeded antibiotic at a body. It will only do harm.


As Jtrans5 noted the dry start up is not really possible due to the hard coating. We are not talking build up that can measurably add to thickness. The place where the build up helps the most on the 325 Polaris aluminum head based on visual at tear down was the ceramic layer on the aluminum cam shaft bearings surface. That top aluminum bearing surface in any engine is as risk of a 'dry' start so if Ceratec coats those services how could it be a bad thing. Liqui Moly is not snake oil company I think most will agree.

Just from science I would not want competing coating chemicals trying to fight it out for bare metal parts at the same time. I could even see driving a few hundred miles on a new oil change before adding the Ceratec so the new detergent has cleaned the metal bearing surfaces very well.

Actually if anyone has some research on HOW and when one gets the coating build up when using something like Ceratec or Archoil AR 9300 I would like a link. I know from tearing down the 325 Polaris engine after 11 hours of idle time (had a chewed up crank from being ran without oil) and we just replaced the rod inserts and went with a used connecting rod. I had just learned about Ceratec and this blown ATV engine was just a perfect test bed.The parts cost was just $100 including the gasket kit.

I know without a doubt Ceratec works as Liquid Moly states it works. I know of no reason to not use it in a new engine because ceramic coated piston rings and pistons are sometimes placed in new engines.

If you have an engine that has rings that have to 'wear-in' due to friction you have a low quality finish on moving parts and must be using an old non-detergent stash of motor oil. smile

With that being said I would put 100-2000 miles on a new engine then change oil and add Ceratec to the new motor oil. This would let the moving parts like oil pump gears, gears, etc 'wear-in' and you could drain out any new engine metal.

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#3361762 - 05/04/14 07:26 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
lockguy Offline


Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 142
Loc: Arkansas
Reading all of the comments about the ceratec, i think i would be a little scared to use that stuff. Just seems a little risky. Im not sure how long people normally keep a car but why bother? Engines have been running hundreds of thousands of miles with little to no wear given proper service for the quality of lube/filter used. If someone thinks they are going to keep a vehicle for a million plus miles, might be worth it. But after so many miles, most people want something new anyway.

We have a brand new pilot, couldn't imagine putting that in the brand new engine. we did get a lifetime power-train warranty anyway. I might consider using mos2 sometime down the road for fuel efficiency.

I use the mos2 in my service van purely for fuel efficiency and I did notice enough of an improvement to keep using it.

Because of the rash of filter tears, I'm thinking of going m1ep with a fram ultra or bosch distance, then running 12k oci. Would mos2 be beneficial in this setting?
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#3361884 - 05/04/14 09:00 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
So you will use MoS2, but are "scared" to use Cera Tec, which is Liqui Moly's best friction modifier?

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#3361927 - 05/04/14 09:48 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
So you will use MoS2, but are "scared" to use Cera Tec, which is Liqui Moly's best friction modifier?


He's not the only person thinking along those lines. There was talk that the Nano particles used in Ceratec find their way into the combustion chamber and can foul plugs, and or collect on them. I personally haven't tried the product so I can't confirm nor deny it, but it is scattered about the www. There are no reports of MoS2 doing it.
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#3365323 - 05/08/14 08:43 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: demarpaint]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
So you will use MoS2, but are "scared" to use Cera Tec, which is Liqui Moly's best friction modifier?


He's not the only person thinking along those lines. There was talk that the Nano particles used in Ceratec find their way into the combustion chamber and can foul plugs, and or collect on them. I personally haven't tried the product so I can't confirm nor deny it, but it is scattered about the www. There are no reports of MoS2 doing it.


Thats could be a real concern if the engine is using oil or used on high speed roads where increased oil consumption is normal.
I have a few problems with these types of additives today. Go back to the 70's and 80's when LM MoS2 was a popular additive in Germany.
It helped because to put it bluntly the oils available were garbage by todays standards. IIRC LM used it in most if not all of their engine oils at that time.

Today they don't even use it in most of their their oils and correct me if i am wrong not at all in the high end oils.
Why is that? I don't have an answer but to me its a valid question, could it be they have other additives available that perform the same function better?

It just seems strange to me that the company that makes this MoS2 and white graphite concoction does not use it in the engine oils they also formulate and produce.
The other issues have to do with fall out which fo me is a real concern as my vehicles don't get much use and sit either all winter or all summer.

There seems to be a communications problem with LM. Members are getting different answers to the same question regarding use of the product.
Their reps don't seem to be on the same sheet of music, they are all singing a different tune.

Not a bash on LM they have a good reputation and i never heard of any of their product doing damage.
I did use MoS2 for years but now i question its value with todays superior engine oils and lubricants.
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#3365335 - 05/08/14 08:54 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trav]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
So you will use MoS2, but are "scared" to use Cera Tec, which is Liqui Moly's best friction modifier?


He's not the only person thinking along those lines. There was talk that the Nano particles used in Ceratec find their way into the combustion chamber and can foul plugs, and or collect on them. I personally haven't tried the product so I can't confirm nor deny it, but it is scattered about the www. There are no reports of MoS2 doing it.


Thats could be a real concern if the engine is using oil or used on high speed roads where increased oil consumption is normal.
I have a few problems with these types of additives today. Go back to the 70's and 80's when LM MoS2 was a popular additive in Germany.
It helped because to put it bluntly the oils available were garbage by todays standards. IIRC LM used it in most if not all of their engine oils at that time.

Today they don't even use it in most of their their oils and correct me if i am wrong not at all in the high end oils.
Why is that? I don't have an answer but to me its a valid question, could it be they have other additives available that perform the same function better?

It just seems strange to me that the company that makes this MoS2 and white graphite concoction does not use it in the engine oils they also formulate and produce.
The other issues have to do with fall out which fo me is a real concern as my vehicles don't get much use and sit either all winter or all summer.

There seems to be a communications problem with LM. Members are getting different answers to the same question regarding use of the product.
Their reps don't seem to be on the same sheet of music, they are all singing a different tune.

Not a bash on LM they have a good reputation and i never heard of any of their product doing damage.
I did use MoS2 for years but now i question its value with todays superior engine oils and lubricants.




As usual you're SPOT ON!!!!!
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#3365478 - 05/08/14 11:35 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trav
Thats could be a real concern if the engine is using oil or used on high speed roads where increased oil consumption is normal. I have a few problems with these types of additives [referring to Ceratec] today. Go back to the 70's and 80's when LM MoS2 was a popular additive in Germany. It helped because to put it bluntly the oils available were garbage by todays standards. IIRC LM used it in most if not all of their engine oils at that time.

Good point. Some motor oils in the 70's and 80's were not so good. Adding MoS2 reduced parasitic heat losses, tended to fortify the oils, and provided EP lubrication if the oil actually failed. Furthermore, air-cooled engines were popular during that period and they were very hard on oil. The hotter the engine, the more likely the oil would fail, which resulted in even more engine heat. And you couldn't count on the thermostat to save you.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Today they don't even use it in most of their their oils and correct me if i am wrong not at all in the high end oils.

That is not as clear. If you check Liqui-Moly's product line, MoS2 is used in several of their high-end products. Furthermore, organic molybdenum is available and widely used by L-M and many other oil makers. The benefits of organic molybdenum are somewhat different, but at the very least it should reduce parasitic heat losses and provide some barrier protection. It is a thinner layer, so it may not provide start-up or 'limp home' protection.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Why is that? I don't have an answer but to me its a valid question, could it be they have other additives available that perform the same function better?

Yes, other additives. Plus, MoS2 turns your oil black. From a marketing standpoint, that's probably not a good thing. Plus, MoS2 may settle out of the oil, depending on the particle size. Walmart customers cannot be depended upon to 'shake well before using'.

Plus, if you were an oil company, would you really want to be advertising 'limp home' protection? When some guy runs his engine out of oil (maybe from taking a bullet, but most likely from poor or no maintenance), you probably want to distance yourself from this situation.

Originally Posted By: Trav
It just seems strange to me that the company that makes this MoS2 and white graphite concoction does not use it in the engine oils they also formulate and produce.

White graphite?????

Originally Posted By: Trav
The other issues have to do with fall out which fo me is a real concern as my vehicles don't get much use and sit either all winter or all summer.

By 'fall out', you are referring to settling, right? If the particles are fine enough, there should be little settling. Furthermore, MoS2 attaches itself to the metal surfaces after a period of time (say, 500 miles). Once attached, it will no longer settle out. Furthermore, it should provide excellent start-up lubrication on an engine which sits idle for long periods (MoS2 is a very popular dry lubricant and assembly lube).

Originally Posted By: Trav
There seems to be a communications problem with LM. Members are getting different answers to the same question regarding use of the product. Their reps don't seem to be on the same sheet of music, they are all singing a different tune. Not a bash on LM they have a good reputation and i never heard of any of their product doing damage. I did use MoS2 for years but now i question its value with todays superior engine oils and lubricants.

Oils have gotten a bit better. MoS2 may have gotten better as well. It still provides superior EP protection (probably better than any liquid lubricant), still provides superior start-up lubrication, still reduces oil consumption by attaching itself to metal bearing surfaces. That's not too bad, all things considered. And, it still provides limp-home protection (if you take a bullet).

MoS2 may or may not be cost effective. If you were a fleet operator and could extend the OCI by 5%, that would be great. To an individual, a small OCI increase is not significant. If you plan to keep your vehicle (or at least the engine ;-) for 200,000 or 300,000 miles, MoS2 is the way to fly. But, most folks don't keep their car that long, and most modern engines will last 100k or more with very modest care.
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#3365964 - 05/08/14 07:59 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: dave5358
White graphite?????

Hexagonal Boron Nitride AKA white graphite.

I have owned an engine that went 260K Km on one brand and viscosity of engine oil from the first oil change. No additives other than what was in the Castrol RS 10w60 (the red oil).
No part was out of OEM new spec tolerances (checked with Starrett inside and outside micrometers not Plastigauge), no sludge, no varnish, nothing. The cam chain stretched thats why i had it torn down.

This engine routinely (daily) saw 9-12K RPM and 7-9K sustained RPM for hundreds of Km in the 12 years that i owned it. The bike is still running strong with the new owner, same oil and over 300K and 20 yrs old in 2012.
My little Honda CB Seven Fifty i bought new in 1993 as an around town bike has had the same RS 10w60 oil for the last 20 yrs (yearly OCI), it now has almost 100K on the clock and it runs like a Swiss watch.
I know it never had any additives in it because i still own it and no one has ever ridden it or worked on it but me.
BTW none of these use any measurable amount oil between OC.

Its not uncommon to see old MB 200 and 240D W123 cars with more than a million KM and never used any sort of additive.
How is this possible without these miracles in a can? Sorry i don't buy it, nothing i have seen proves an engine needs these wonder to live a extremely long and trouble free life.

If people want to use them thats fine by me i could care less, its not my engine or my money.
I do wonder how much money gets spent on this stuff and what real benefits do these products have that a high quality engine oil alone doesn't have.

http://sandblastingabrasives.com/hexagonal-boron-nitride-powder-order-page-781.html
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#3366417 - 05/09/14 09:13 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trav
I have owned an engine that went 260K Km on one brand and viscosity of engine oil from the first oil change. No additives other than what was in the Castrol RS 10w60 (the red oil).

Great. Castrol is good oil. I used it for years.

Originally Posted By: Trav
My little Honda CB Seven Fifty i bought new in 1993 as an around town bike has had the same RS 10w60 oil for the last 20 yrs (yearly OCI), it now has almost 100K on the clock and it runs like a Swiss watch. I know it never had any additives in it because i still own it and no one has ever ridden it or worked on it but me.

Doubly great.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Its not uncommon to see old MB 200 and 240D W123 cars with more than a million KM and never used any sort of additive.

Yup, I've seen this, too. Of course, Mercedes Benz builds reasonably good automobiles and diesel engines start out life with a few extra things going for them.

Originally Posted By: Trav
How is this possible without these miracles in a can? Sorry i don't buy it, nothing i have seen proves an engine needs these wonder to live a extremely long and trouble free life. If people want to use them thats fine by me i could care less, its not my engine or my money. I do wonder how much money gets spent on this stuff and what real benefits do these products have that a high quality engine oil alone doesn't have.

High quality oil is a great idea. Everyone should use it. Do you consider 'high quality oil' a miracle in a can?

You've made this argument before but what's the point? Sure, most folks who've worked around automobiles have seen very high mileage engines that act like they're going to run forever. Back in the 70's, I owned a Datsun 510 wagon which had 250,000 miles on the clock. Sold it to a friend who drove another 180k miles when it was finally totaled in a wreck. Should everyone buy a Datsun? Should everyone buy a Mercedes? Incidentally, the Datsun L-16 engine was a rip of a Mercedes design, so maybe the 'M word' is the key?

Most engines don't last forever. They might last 100,000 miles, or maybe even more miles, but eventually they start wearing out, or using oil or losing compression or whatever. Many times, those issues occur well before the first century. That's why repair shops and dealer shops stay in business. If you really want to know how long an engine is expected to last, simply look at the manufacturer's warranty period.

Subarus are great quality vehicles, well designed and usually well maintained (the Subaru maintenance program is ultra conservative). But if you follow any Subaru forum, there are plenty of owners who have problems with their vehicles. They start using oil. They develop a bad cylinder. Seals get flaky. Various parts fail prematurely. For at least for some of these issues, an additive might help.

In your situation, you did not need a miracle in a can, because the fine folks at Castrol included the miracle in their oil. You might consider that before making a blanket condemnation of additives.
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2008 Corolla LE

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#3366529 - 05/09/14 11:02 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: dave5358
in your situation, you did not need a miracle in a can, because the fine folks at Castrol included the miracle in their oil. You might consider that before making a blanket condemnation of additives.

Have you considered that most if not all quality oils have the same "miracle" in their oils also especially today. This was over 20 yrs ago.
I have nothing against additives which you would know if you were here longer.
There are situations that they may be of some benefit but in a new engine (that does not have any inherent design issues that cause sludge or deposits) with proper maintenance from day one no way.

Originally Posted By: dave5358
If you really want to know how long an engine is expected to last, simply look at the manufacturer's warranty period.

Any idea what the warranty was on the MB, BMW, VW/Audi, Porsche, etc sold in Germany was in the 80's?
1 yr 12,000 Km. Today its only 2 or 3 yrs in Germany. I guess they couldn't be very good cars. LOL
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#3366566 - 05/09/14 11:38 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: dave5358
in your situation, you did not need a miracle in a can, because the fine folks at Castrol included the miracle in their oil. You might consider that before making a blanket condemnation of additives.

Have you considered that most if not all quality oils have the same "miracle" in their oils also especially today.

Maybe, maybe not. If you do even a cursory glance over the additive packages in many popular oils, about all you can conclude is that you can't conclude anything. They are all over the landscape.

Originally Posted By: Trav
I have nothing against additives which you would know if you were here longer. There are situations that they may be of some benefit but in a new engine (that does not have any inherent design issues that cause sludge or deposits) with proper maintenance from day one no way.

Conclusion: we should all 1) drive a Mercedes or 2) have a new engine or 3) have an engine that does not have any inherent design issues, etc and 4) use Castrol Oil. If everyone did fit into one or more of those categories, there would be far fewer debates - everyone would die of old age before their engine got flaky. In the real world, you have simply assumed away the problem.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: dave5358
If you really want to know how long an engine is expected to last, simply look at the manufacturer's warranty period.

Any idea what the warranty was on the MB, BMW, VW/Audi, Porsche, etc sold in Germany was in the 80's? 1 yr 12,000 Km. Today its only 2 or 3 yrs in Germany. I guess they couldn't be very good cars.

Manufacturer's give the shortest warranty they think they can get away with and still be competitive. I'll stand by my statement. I am truly impressed with Mercedes quality, but much less impressed with the other badges you listed. Advertising hype aside, they're just good cars, but mostly overrated quality-wise.
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#3366691 - 05/09/14 01:21 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trav
Have you considered that most if not all quality oils have the same "miracle" in their oils also especially today. This was over 20 yrs ago. I have nothing against additives <snip>

What this argument boils down to is... trust the advertising hype of the oil makers. You are welcome to do that. As for me, I think the oil companies are in business to maximize profits. If, along the way, they happen to make a decent product, that's great, but it is clearly not their primary objective. Furthermore, oil companies, like cigarette makers, know that advertising dollars are much more effective in molding public opinion of their product than dollars spent on research and development. If you don't understand that, you are simply naive.

Originally Posted By: Trav
which you would know if you were here longer.

That is certainly relevant

Originally Posted By: Trav
... a new engine (that does not have any inherent design issues that cause sludge or deposits) with proper maintenance from day one no way.

I previously suggested you were assuming away the problem. But it's worse than that. Every engine has design flaws. If you have any doubts, just wait a year or so for the car maker to come out with a newer engine version which 'fixes' the known flaws. Subaru must have had a truckload of design flaws in their 4-cylinder boxer engine, because the list of modifications and improvements over the years is amazing.

The next time you buy a car, be sure to ask the car salesman if the vehicle of interest has any 'design flaws'.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Any idea what the warranty was on the MB, BMW, VW/Audi, Porsche, etc sold in Germany was in the 80's?
1 yr 12,000 Km. Today its only 2 or 3 yrs in Germany. I guess they couldn't be very good cars.

It's actually offensive to put Mercedes and VW in the same sentence, while discussing quality. If you want a quality car (well engineered, easy to maintain, last a long time, etc.), get a Toyota or Nissan or Honda.. Even Subaru made this 'best new cars' list... not bad considering the design flaws in the engine.

Or, here's an independent look at best and worst car values. BMW made this list... guess in which category? As for Auto Union, they are an interesting company which has also discovered the power of advertising.

Volkswagen made economy cars for the masses - good cars, mind you, considering their objective. Then, the VW folks started an advertising campaign to change their image. It's been very effective, but a Toyota or Nissan is better designed and better built and a better value - no real comparison. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, 'I knew Mercedes Benz, and Volkswagen, you're no Mercedes Benz'.

If you truly believes the oil companies (or car companies) have your best interests at heart, I wish you well. I prefer to take advertising hype with a bit of skepticism.
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#3366832 - 05/09/14 03:28 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
But you will buy into the advertising hype of Liqui Moly or some other additive company correct?
Do i have to mention Phaeton, A8, 911, M cars, Rolls Royce, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Bentley? You need to learn the product line up and a little more about what your talking about before trying to pass off such nonsense.
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#3366849 - 05/09/14 03:44 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trav
But you will buy into the advertising hype of Liqui Moly or some other additive company correct?

No, I'm not interested in the company's advertising. Some of their products, maybe. Where do they advertise, anyway?

Originally Posted By: Trav
Do i have to mention Phaeton, A8, 911, M cars, Rolls Royce, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Bentley? You need to learn the product line up and a little more about what your talking about before trying to pass off such nonsense.

Blah, blah. What's your point? Maybe we should all drive a Rolls or Bugatti? Rolls/Bentley are certainly good quality but hardly pinnacles of automotive engineering. Rolls Royce (the aircraft engine company) was one of the first to use MoS2 as an oil additive. They even recommended upper cylinder lubricant for some of their vehicles. The 911 Porsche is a glorified Volkswagen - fun to drive, really nifty car, hard to work on, but still basically a Volkswagen. Maybe you should stop name dropping and try to make a coherent point, as you pass off such nonsense.
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#3366891 - 05/09/14 04:39 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Don't waste my time, i get paid for it. LOL
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#3366998 - 05/09/14 06:22 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3350
Loc: SE PA
More to the point, what perceived problem are you trying to fix?

What do you think oil formulators left out?
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#3367014 - 05/09/14 06:49 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Bill in Utah]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Just say no.

Not needed and all its purpose is to separate your $$$ from you.

Bill


Funny, THIS^^^ is my stance on; booze, cancer sticks, recreational drugs (and most prescribed ones as well), and gambling (BOTH the handing it directly to Tony Soprano casino type, AND the Wall Street Gordon Gekko type), which ironically, are absolute necessities of life to very many on here, many of whom will dis and rag on ANY AND ALL oil additives every chance they get. wink
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#3367144 - 05/09/14 09:25 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dailydriver]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3350
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Just say no.

Not needed and all its purpose is to separate your $$$ from you.

Bill


Funny, THIS^^^ is my stance on; booze, cancer sticks, recreational drugs (and most prescribed ones as well), and gambling (BOTH the handing it directly to Tony Soprano casino type, AND the Wall Street Gordon Gekko type), which ironically, are absolute necessities of life to very many on here, many of whom will dis and rag on ANY AND ALL oil additives every chance they get. wink


Heh. grin

What I find funny is that one is *required* to use a product to have an opinion on it. Even though one can read information in various threads, websites, etc. The Synlube lube 4 Life crowd had the same "you don't use it so you're not allowed to express an opinion." blather.






Edited by Trajan (05/09/14 09:27 PM)
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#3367442 - 05/10/14 09:36 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
lockguy Offline


Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 142
Loc: Arkansas
Im not even sure this is a question of durability, prevention of wear or fixing a problem. Cars running on motorcraft oil go forever with little to no wear.

Im not sure what the oil manufacturers left out but I noticed real world difference in fuel efficiency. Thats enough for me. Whether it helps the engine go another 100k or not, I don't know and it probably doesn't matter in the end. I may sell the vehicle eventually anyway. Im saving money at the pump...
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#3367527 - 05/10/14 11:40 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Remarks only requires access to a forum and ability to make a post.

To test Ceratec for personal use we patched up a blown engine due to a blown oil cooler line and ran it for one million revolutions with a chewed up crankshaft connecting rod surface using a good used connecting rod and new standard size rod insert due to damage from the spinning rod bearing due to no motor oil.

Our results are posted in this thread.

While we all know synthetic motor oil does NOT add more functional engine life than Dino oil many of us prefer to use synthetic if for only emotional reasons. I agree the use of products like Ceratec, Arch oil AR9300, etc may be a waste of money as is synthetic oil.

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#3367535 - 05/10/14 11:51 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Our results are posted in this thread.

The thread link didn't come through. Would you post/re-post it? Thanks.
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2006 Forester XT
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#3367579 - 05/10/14 12:59 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Earlier in this thread, I opined that if you really want to know how long an engine is expected to last, simply look at the manufacturer's warranty period. Trav responded:

Originally Posted By: Trav
Any idea what the warranty was on the MB, BMW, VW/Audi, Porsche, etc sold in Germany was in the 80's? 1 yr 12,000 Km. Today its only 2 or 3 yrs in Germany. I guess they couldn't be very good cars.

Trav was exactly correct, although it rather proves my point. There were similar short warranties in the US. Today, US warranties are much longer - perhaps 5-years on the power train. This could be because the cars are better built or perhaps the car maker's unwavering concern for the consumer, but the most likely reason is legal.

In 1963, the US passed the Clean Air Act, which was extensively amended in 1970, plus other amendments. By 1995, this law required vehicles sold in the US to meet certain clean air standards. It further required that the vehicle warranty must cover failure of an emission's test in the first 2 years/24,000 miles (the 'performance warranty) and that specified emission components and systems must last for 8 years/80,000 miles (the 'Design and Defect Warranty').

Auto makers were left in a peculiar position: they had to comply with the law regarding the emission/components warranty, but if they did so and still only offered only a 1- or 2-year vehicle warranty (or power train warranty), it did not send a particularly flattering message about their product. Furthermore, if you did have a power train failure, you might be able to convince a jury that this failure should be covered by the emission/component part of the Clean Air Act warranty. This situation was worse than oil which turns black.

Most vehicle makers got in line and offered longer warranties, at least on the power train - 5-years or more in some cases. Perhaps the vehicles were really better quality, perhaps not. Technology had also progressed or at least evolved.

Originally Posted By: Trav
I guess they [German cars] couldn't be very good cars.

That's a complicated statement, probably meant to be sarcastic. Mercedes-Benz/Daimler Benz builds very good cars - perhaps the best automobiles in the world - as befits the company that invented the automobile. Mercedes are also very expensive, so comparisons to lesser vehicles is problematic.

As for the the other German car makers ["BMW, VW/Audi, Porsche, etc"] their reputation for quality probably exceeds reality. If you look at independent tests for reliability, quality, whatever, none of these marques get particularly high marks. Over the years, I've personally owned and serviced 3 water-cooled VWs and my personal experience was that they were interesting cars and fun to drive but not super reliable. I've worked on BMWs in the shop and neither I nor any of the other mechanics thought their quality was even close to that of Mercedes. Nice cars, yes! High quality, not so much. Back then, Audi was a ho-hum brand - they've burnished their reputation in recent years, mostly through advertising.

In fact, each of these German companies has an extensive advertising campaign to improve their 'quality' image. These programs include racing sponsorship and/or racing teams using their own vehicles. It is not exactly clear if this technology or expertise transfers to a more reliable or long-lived vehicle. Ford Motor Company also fielded a moderately successful Formula-1 racing team some years ago, but it contributed little to Ford's 'quality' reputation.

I am not suggesting that any of these German cars are not nice cars to own, not fun to drive, or anything remotely like that. But if you want reliability, low maintenance and long vehicle life, buy a Toyota.
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2006 Forester XT
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#3367590 - 05/10/14 01:15 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Sam2000 Offline


Registered: 03/25/14
Posts: 400
Loc: Nevada
Look at the CPO warranties.

Mercedes just went unlimited from 100k.

But all CPO warranties are way beyond initial mileage. It's almost as if they think their new cars could go wrong but once they have survived a year or three and they pass an inspection, they are more confident.

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#3367591 - 05/10/14 01:18 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Sam2000 Offline


Registered: 03/25/14
Posts: 400
Loc: Nevada
Out of interest, I looked at the model years of vehicles at PicknPull.

Most definitely, Japanese cars were at least 5 years older than domestic and German.

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#3367807 - 05/10/14 06:22 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Quest Offline


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 6409
Loc: beaver land EH?
To me, this is just many rounds of the same thing from that very same poster over and over again.

Bertrand Russell's cosmic teapot, anyone?

Q.
_________________________
"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen

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#3368027 - 05/10/14 10:28 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dave5358]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Our results are posted in this thread.

The thread link didn't come through. Would you post/re-post it? Thanks.


Look at my 25 April 2014 post in this thread or a copy of it below.

Copy
As Jtrans5 noted the dry start up is not really possible due to the hard coating. We are not talking build up that can measurably add to thickness. The place where the build up helps the most on the 325 Polaris aluminum head based on visual at tear down was the ceramic layer on the aluminum cam shaft bearings surface. That top aluminum bearing surface in any engine is as risk of a 'dry' start so if Ceratec coats those services how could it be a bad thing. Liqui Moly is not snake oil company I think most will agree.

Just from science I would not want competing coating chemicals trying to fight it out for bare metal parts at the same time. I could even see driving a few hundred miles on a new oil change before adding the Ceratec so the new detergent has cleaned the metal bearing surfaces very well.

Actually if anyone has some research on HOW and when one gets the coating build up when using something like Ceratec or Archoil AR 9300 I would like a link. I know from tearing down the 325 Polaris engine after 11 hours of idle time (had a chewed up crank from being ran without oil) and we just replaced the rod inserts and went with a used connecting rod. I had just learned about Ceratec and this blown ATV engine was just a perfect test bed.The parts cost was just $100 including the gasket kit.

I know without a doubt Ceratec works as Liquid Moly states it works. I know of no reason to not use it in a new engine because ceramic coated piston rings and pistons are sometimes placed in new engines.

If you have an engine that has rings that have to 'wear-in' due to friction you have a low quality finish on moving parts and must be using an old non-detergent stash of motor oil. smile

With that being said I would put 100-2000 miles on a new engine then change oil and add Ceratec to the new motor oil. This would let the moving parts like oil pump gears, gears, etc 'wear-in' and you could drain out any new engine metal.

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#3389332 - 06/05/14 03:32 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
Has anybody used the Ceratec in an air cooled engine?

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#3389425 - 06/05/14 07:23 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
I add a little Cera Tec to my lawnmowers.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
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#3389707 - 06/05/14 12:03 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: gman2304]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Has anybody used the Ceratec in an air cooled engine?



I'm using it in my Harley.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3389806 - 06/05/14 02:01 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
Thanks guys, When I change the oil for the first time in my new to me 95 Electraglide I'm going to add the Ceratec. Clevy, in a 4 qt sump do you think 10 or 12 ozs would be about right? Thanks

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#3389846 - 06/05/14 02:50 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: gman2304]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Thanks guys, When I change the oil for the first time in my new to me 95 Electraglide I'm going to add the Ceratec. Clevy, in a 4 qt sump do you think 10 or 12 ozs would be about right? Thanks



Hey gman


I think the can claims it's enough for 5 litres of oil,so if you've got 4 litres then 80% of the can should do.

From what I recall liqui-moly says that 6% of sump capacity is enough to be effective.

If anyone cares I pulled the plugs on my charger yesterday. I've had cera-tec in the sump for in excess of 15000 miles and the plugs are deposit free,which I feel is to be expected on an engine with 75000 miles.
And yesterday I took the plunge and changed the oil in the c3,as well as the plugs.
I put a can of cera-tec in with 5 litres of oil.
So let the testing begin. Oil was a mix of pp 5w-20 and castrol's 0w-40,a 50/50 mix to get near a 30 grade since I don't have any 5w-30 grades in my stash.
This far in the c3 I've noticed nothing but I've only got 100 miles on.
I'll start a thread to post any observations.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3389898 - 06/05/14 03:51 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
Clevy, how many miles on the Ceratec in the Harley?

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#3389907 - 06/05/14 03:56 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: gman2304]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Clevy, how many miles on the Ceratec in the Harley?


I put it in about 2000 miles after cams and big bore,so rough and tough about 8000 miles.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3390054 - 06/05/14 06:52 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
Clevy, How long do you run the initial fill with the Ceratec in the bike? Also how long should I go between changes? I also understand the filter should be of no less than a 15 micron. I'm leaning towards using the Valvoline 4t synthetic. Thanks

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#3390061 - 06/05/14 07:04 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
After the cam and big bore I did a couple of short runs with rotella,then I used motul 20w-50 on a 5000 mile run.
I suggest using the best oil you can and run it as long as you can to insure the plating effect is maximized.
The ceramic particles are minute,and the filter won't be able to catch them. From what I can recall from liqui-moly they are micron and sub-micron sized so nothing special is required.
I'd just use an oil that will last as long as possible. After that first run liqui-moly says 30000 miles before doing it again.

I've got no teardowns experience with cera-tec,but gale Hawkins does and his experience is pretty much exactly what liqui-moly says the stuff does.
I have torn down a 2v after using mos2 though,which is why I comment on those threads.
I've moly been using cera-tec for about a year,but I was using mos2 for many years and based on my experience with the products I've used I don't doubt a single word liqui-moly writes about their products.
I'm going to try mos2 after a wash out run of oil to see if there is any improvements to be had.
Ceratec leaves an extremely hard anti-wear layer behind so I'm wondering if a friction improvement can be measured after the ceramic layer is laid down.
Back on topic: just run the cera-tec as long as you can. I don't feel anything special needs to be done other than that.
Pm me if you've got anything specific. I'm glad to help if I can.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3391115 - 06/06/14 09:49 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
Changed the oil in my 2005 Chevy Avalanche 5.3 and added the Liqui-Moly Ceratec along with 5 and 3/4 qts of VWB 5w30. Leaving in the morning heading to Ocean Isle beach, NC for a week at the beach. The 200 mile drive tomorrow will give the Ceratec a chance to get blended good in the 166,000 mile 5.3. The Harley will be next when we return.

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#3391962 - 06/08/14 07:18 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Florida, USA
Is there a UOA posted anywhere where Liqui Moly CERATEC has been used?
_________________________
1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 HDEO 15W40
1970 VW Beetle motorcycle 10W40 w/ LM Ceratec
2003 Honda Accord dino 5W20

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#3397759 - 06/14/14 10:34 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: gman2304]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
The 325 Polaris engine is air/oil cooled.

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#3403908 - 06/22/14 04:24 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
dennishiip Offline


Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 56
Loc: Ca
I have a brand new Ford Focus ST(turbocharged)rated at 250hp. When I reach 1500 miles, I will change the oil and add Ceratec. I emailed LM, and got an emphatic response to add the Ceratec ASAP. I'm waiting until first OC. I've had good results with MOS2, so I'm reasoning that the Ceratec with be even better for the new motor.

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#3403965 - 06/22/14 05:24 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dennishiip]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: dennishiip
I have a brand new Ford Focus ST(turbocharged)rated at 250hp. When I reach 1500 miles, I will change the oil and add Ceratec. I emailed LM, and got an emphatic response to add the Ceratec ASAP. I'm waiting until first OC. I've had good results with MOS2, so I'm reasoning that the Ceratec with be even better for the new motor.




As I get older I believe none of what I hear and only half of what I see however I've had nothing but positive experiences with liqui-moly products and I use them in everything I own.
I've got Honda motors running air compressors with 15000+ hours of run time using mos2 every second oil change for years. I hear that's unheard of yet I've got 2 with that many hours,and accumulating more daily,and 14 more that are gaining 10 hours a day,every day.
Though I doubt you'll see any fuel economy gains I'm confident wear will be low to non existent. Just maintain the rest of the vehicle so it lasts as long as the engine
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3404027 - 06/22/14 06:49 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
I added the LM Ceratec to my 05 Avalanche and my 95 Harley a couple weeks ago. Wife drove the Avalanche with the granddaughters and I rode the Harley on a 500 mile round trip to the beach right after the LM was added. I used Valvoline 5w30 conventional in the Avalanche and Harley 20w50 synthetic in the bike. We'll see how it goes.

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#3404228 - 06/22/14 11:01 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
We added Ceratec yesterday after 2000 Town car oil change and have driven 1400 miles and will see if we can see better mpg etc as well.

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#3404463 - 06/23/14 10:55 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Florida, USA
Curious to know what the difference/benefit is between Liqui-Moly MOS2 and L-M Ceratec. Which one to use for which desired outcome?
_________________________
1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 HDEO 15W40
1970 VW Beetle motorcycle 10W40 w/ LM Ceratec
2003 Honda Accord dino 5W20

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#3404697 - 06/23/14 04:16 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
FetchFar Offline


Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 831
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
We added Ceratec yesterday after 2000 Town car oil change and have driven 1400 miles and will see if we can see better mpg etc as well.


You won't be able to tell if there is a difference. Too many variables in MPG. Ceratec might only make a small difference at best.
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#3404777 - 06/23/14 05:48 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: vintageant]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: vintageant
Curious to know what the difference/benefit is between Liqui-Moly MOS2 and L-M Ceratec. Which one to use for which desired outcome?



From the info I've gathered from liqui-moly,and years of experience using mos2 here's my take on it.
Both products work in the same way however ceratec is far more durable which means a single treatment lasts 30000 miles.
But in practice I've found that ceratec doesn't do much as far as a fuel economy benefit,however it does leave an extremely hard anti-wear layer which I feel lessens wear as a whole.

I've just changed the oil in my C3 and added ceratec. I'm going to run it for 10000 miles,then add mos2 and see if there's any fuel consumption differences.
I want to put the ceratec layer down first,for its anti wear properties,then mos2 for the friction reduction ability.
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2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3405335 - 06/24/14 09:11 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
Does anybody have documented cases of LM MOS2 or Ceratec being used in Porsche water cooled engines?

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#3405979 - 06/24/14 09:14 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
Has anybody used the L-M Ceratec in an automatic transmission? I noticed on the bottle it is for engines as well as transmissions.

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#3406136 - 06/25/14 12:08 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
We added Ceratec yesterday after 2000 Town car oil change and have driven 1400 miles and will see if we can see better mpg etc as well.


We make it into Canada and started visit customer in ND and SD and have worked back down to western MN. The mileage for the first 750 miles repeatedly hit 25 MPG. Today we hit over 2000 miles since adding Ceratec and the son checked what the computer was showing for MPG for about the last 50 miles of our drive today and the computer reported 27 which means nothing by itself but since we have a good 1500 miles to go before getting home you can bet we are going to once again be paying close attention to mileage.

I would like to hear about its use in transmissions as well.

From my research it takes 3000 miles for this nano technology to really coat to the max thickness and we should be there within the first week of adding it. The first day we ran for 13 hours with about 30 minutes of shut down time. I expect 13 straight hours would be better at coating than say 26 30 minute trips.

This in in a 2000 Towncar with the 4.6 V8 that just hit 150K and would be one quart low 5000 miles after each oil change.

I do hope to have it in all of our oil/air cooled engines well before winter.


Edited by GaleHawkins (06/25/14 12:11 AM)

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#3407165 - 06/25/14 11:01 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Checked it after 2500 miles with Ceratec added to the crankcase. The MPG and oil usage rates are basically unchanged./

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#3408798 - 06/27/14 08:50 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Now after 3400 miles we see no change in MPG from Ceratec usage at rate stated on the bottle.

From the tear down of the Polaris engine after 11 hours of run time with Ceratec added it clearly coated the wear points.

Because these miles were put on in one week after the oil change and the Ceratec being added we are not going to change the oil for a while so the Ceratec if not already consume can still work. We have no objective way to determine if the Ceratec is of any value to the engine.

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#3409064 - 06/28/14 09:09 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
I don't think anything noticeable is going to happen in the short term. I'll change my oil and filter at 5,000 miles then add MOS2 at each oil change which will hopefully help with fuel mileage. No instant gratification here.....'patience grass hopper'.

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#3409109 - 06/28/14 10:35 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
My 5% - 7% increase in MPG has been with MoS2 and not so much with Cera Tec; both are friction modifiers. Currently, my newer vehicles all have Cera Tec in them. Then I'll go back to MoS2 for two years before applying another coat of Cera Tec after 25,000 - 30,000 miles.

Love both products, which perform as advertised.
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2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
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#3409562 - 06/28/14 09:37 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
The son did try to start it when it was running and we both agree the engine is more quiet. I like MoS2 it was used in this car at the last oil changed. The 4.3L in the S10 seems quieter and smoother on MoS2 as well. Not sure how long we are going to run the Ceratec before an oil change.

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#3409881 - 06/29/14 10:10 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Florida, USA
Are you folks running MOS2 and Ceratec together, or alternating with OCIs?
_________________________
1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 HDEO 15W40
1970 VW Beetle motorcycle 10W40 w/ LM Ceratec
2003 Honda Accord dino 5W20

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#3410033 - 06/29/14 01:35 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Liqui Moly does not recommend that you use MoS2 and Cera Tec together, even though no harm will be done.

One of their engineers told me via e-mail that Cera Tec will bond a little better if you don't add MoS2 at the same time. For this reason and others, I run a can of Cera Tec every two years and a 5% or 6% solution of MoS2 in-between.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#3410712 - 06/30/14 09:25 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Liqui Moly does not recommend that you use MoS2 and Cera Tec together, even though no harm will be done.

One of their engineers told me via e-mail that Cera Tec will bond a little better if you don't add MoS2 at the same time. For this reason and others, I run a can of Cera Tec every two years and a 5% or 6% solution of MoS2 in-between.


From what I understand about the use of the Archoil 9300 version of boron nano tech solution I agree. It sounds like the cleaner the metal the better Ceratec or AR 9300 will bond. MoS2 would compete for the same metal surface I gather.

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#3410836 - 06/30/14 12:03 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
Oilport Offline


Registered: 06/28/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Ont.Canada
I wonder with the Ceratec bonded on ,,how well the MS02 sticks ??
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#3414072 - 07/03/14 11:15 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
SuperDave456 Offline


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 2255
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Just broke 200,000 miles in my 2002 Ford Taurus.
She still purrs. Most of that was before I started doing 5,000 mile OCI's. I used to religiously do 3,000 mile OCI's.

Anyways, you guys have me interested.

However, before I bite, I'm curious as to how many of you guys currently have this in your crankcase?

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#3414768 - 07/04/14 08:01 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
keesue Online   happy


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 98
Loc: San Francisco
I ordered Ceratec and put it with an oil change per instructions. I used delo 15/40. I now have 4000 miles on the treatment. I have also been using LCD. My initial impressions were the same as when I used liqui-moly. It seemed as though a blanket was thrown over the engine. (1981 Turbo Volvo B21FT SOHC). The oil looks like honey and the engine is nice and smooth. I'm going to change it at 5K if it looks like I need it although I suspect it will still look like honey and if so I won't. No oil usage either. When I do change it, I'm guessing I'll use liqui-moly. There seems to be some confusion about which oil change to add but it can't do any harm to do it directly. Good stuff this.

If archoil does the same thing, it sounds like that may be an alternative but I'm holding with Ceratec and moly. I don't want a conflict going with competing products, I do think that LCD is complimentary in dealing with oxidation. I'm satisfied with the synergy. I did notice an increase in fuel mileage in tank-to-tank highway miles but nothing in combination driving.

I'm wondering if I should use synthetic with my next oil change. I'll have to ponder that one.
_________________________
1981 Turbo Volvo with over 313,000 miles (bought new)
2001 S60-T5 Volvo

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#3415256 - 07/05/14 12:45 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: keesue]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
All of these products like Ceratec and Archoil 9300 may be an overkill but they can be fun to play with. Archoil states to use their cleaner (AR2300??) for 3K miles before using AR 9300 unless you have been running AR9100 which does not offer ceramic coating but is slicker than AR9300. In light of that I am thinking about gallon of Archoil AR9100 and run it in everything since it is for engines, transmissions and hydraulic oil. In manual, auto transmissions the mixing ratio goes to 10% making it go fast. My try some in the old backhoe but it would cost $400 to fully treat it. I can do it with Lucas Hydraulic Oil Booster and Stop Leak for only $60 but they are not designed to do the same thing.

For engines at we change (none hold more than 2 gallons) we just go with synthetic engine oil how ever at the quick lube places I just go with house brand dino to offset their labor charges. I like Shell T6 as the oil to stash because it is good for the lawnmower to diesel engines but after some testing really like Mobil 1 10w-40 High Mileage oil for the gas engines as all are 100K to 200K+ miles. It is the slickest oil out of the bottle that I have seen and sticky too. I used it as the rebuild oil in the Polaris engines and was impressed. It may be the moly but it seems to be good cutting oil and adds to bit life.

On the 2000 150K towncar with Ceratec with over 3500 miles on it we will monitor. Checked today and on local driving it is showing 19.3 MPG today after the 3500 mile trip last week but did not really test it right before adding Ceratec but that is higher then in the pass. It may have been winter but once after many tanks it was more like 11 MPG but if it was idled a lot at start up that would have been a factor.

Other than the engine being more quiet we see no major pro or con at this point with Ceratec.


Edited by GaleHawkins (07/05/14 12:52 PM)

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#3415276 - 07/05/14 01:38 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
stickybuns Offline


Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 119
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins

From the tear down of the Polaris engine after 11 hours of run time with Ceratec added it clearly coated the wear points. &&&&&&& We have no objective way to determine if the Ceratec is of any value to the engine.


What did you see/detect/feel that makes you think Ceratec coated?

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#3415279 - 07/05/14 01:40 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: SuperDave456]
stickybuns Offline


Registered: 07/04/14
Posts: 119
Loc: texas
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Anyways, you guys have me interested.
However, before I bite, I'm curious as to how many of you guys currently have this in your crankcase?
SuperDave Osborne, I use LM MOS2, am thinkin about Ceratec. Need proof.

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#3415295 - 07/05/14 02:13 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
keesue Online   happy


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 98
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
...but after some testing really like Mobil 1 10w-40 High Mileage oil for the gas engines as all are 100K to 200K+ miles. It is the slickest oil out of the bottle that I have seen and sticky too. I used it as the rebuild oil in the Polaris engines and was impressed. It may be the moly but it seems to be good cutting oil and adds to bit life.


Thanks for this. I think I'll give Mobil 1 HM a try and skip the moly since it has it included.
_________________________
1981 Turbo Volvo with over 313,000 miles (bought new)
2001 S60-T5 Volvo

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#3415906 - 07/06/14 08:10 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
keesue I expect the moly is a factor. I try to use grease with moly as well for the equipment.

I can tell by ear (never measured it) the 4.6L in the 2000 towncar with 150K miles is a bit more quite with the Ceratec than even with the LM MoS2.

Being a gear head it is fun to mess with these additives like Ceratec and Archoil 9300 with nano technologies. At the same time we know they functionally do nothing for us other than separate us from our cash. smile

I expect based on reading a lot of Archoil research they do pay their way in engines that hold 20+ gallons of motor oil and need to last 40 years running 24/7 most of those 40 years and the same for gear boxes.

Today's passenger vehicles will long since wear out the chassis just using the motor oil specs and change intervals that some in the book in the glove box.

On our run that got us into Canada (with the Ceratec added after a new oil change) we drove from east to west across much of Nebraska and saw all of those coal trains. I can see why Archoil would be used in industries like that. The cost savings with train usage of Archoil research showed some real savings in just fuel usage the best I remember.

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#3415909 - 07/06/14 08:12 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: stickybuns]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Anyways, you guys have me interested.
However, before I bite, I'm curious as to how many of you guys currently have this in your crankcase?
SuperDave Osborne, I use LM MOS2, am thinkin about Ceratec. Need proof.


Due to the lack of proof faith will be required.:) Neither are required to enable a car engine to wear out the chassis 99% of the time. smile

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#3415921 - 07/06/14 08:36 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: stickybuns]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins

From the tear down of the Polaris engine after 11 hours of run time with Ceratec added it clearly coated the wear points. &&&&&&& We have no objective way to determine if the Ceratec is of any value to the engine.


What did you see/detect/feel that makes you think Ceratec coated?


There was a shine and the cylinder wall marks from running with no oil in the crankcase were less after idling the engine for 11 hours with Ceratec added. While the crank still had ridges they were smooth and shiny and while showing some heavy wear the rod bearing never did spin in the connecting rod. No proof of anything but it did run and the parts looked better than I expect after 11 hours of run time with a chewed up crank.

The coating is not enough to stop rust from occurring. It was torn down in Jan and due to life it has set since that time the head setting on a table became uncovered and the cam shaft showed some very light surface rust but is the kind that you can rub off with oil. This shows the ceramic coating is not moisture proof when exposed to the air.

The blown Polaris 325 cc air/oil cooled engine was just a test bed we used to test Ceratec to some degree. Valid research would be nice to to have but with a tool and die background I have no question that Ceratec made a difference in this adverse case.

In the case of these oil cooled Polaris engines that with age experience oil line failure something like Ceratec, Archoil 9300, etc might save an engine due to the lost of all engine oil by a bit but who knows for sure. In the case with this line of Polaris all one would have to do is to change out two oil lines every 5-10 years to reduce this risk. smile

Not all will emotionally agree but the fact remains there are no new cars that one expects engine failure before the chassis is shot if the OCI and oil in the manual is followed so functionally all additives are worthless today. smile

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#3417949 - 07/08/14 07:57 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
I'm hoping to see the benefits of the L-M Ceratec after I have ran it 5,000 miles and then drain it and add the L-M mos2 to the next oil change. I'm hoping to see an improvement in MPG as well as longevity of the engine with these two additives but as you have said with proper maintenance an engine should outlive the vehicle. If L-M would run a controlled long term test on say 2 vehicles that are the exact same from new, one with they're additives and one without, then we might be able to see how the L-M might be of benefit....or not.

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#3418593 - 07/08/14 06:02 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
keesue Online   happy


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 98
Loc: San Francisco
Do you mean moly is the factor in Mobil 1 HM? If so, I'll just add Moly to Rotella.
_________________________
1981 Turbo Volvo with over 313,000 miles (bought new)
2001 S60-T5 Volvo

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#3418948 - 07/08/14 10:18 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
HM is high zinc but do not remember about Rotella 5W-40

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#3433123 - 07/23/14 09:31 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
123Saab Online   sleepy


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1313
Loc: PA
On our 2008 Jeep Liberty:

About 4k in now with Ceratec.

The Chrysler 3.7l has never sounded so quiet.

Wife claims maybe a few more miles per gallon, Who knows?

Startup noise is down too, And overall the Engine feels smoother.

I think it was worth it so far.
_________________________
Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated
Nothin' to do and no where to go-o-oh I wanna be sedated

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#3435945 - 07/26/14 12:10 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
We do notice the 150K mile 2000 Ford 4.6L is more quiet after 5K miles with Ceratec but think the Moly used after the prior oil change may have helped MPG more than Ceratec.

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#3436182 - 07/26/14 10:35 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
....the Moly used after the prior oil change may have helped MPG more than Ceratec.

+1

My experience as well with a dozen vehicles over the years.

* Cera Tec seems to be best at extending the longevity of the engine with a more permanent bonding of metal surfaces.

* Moly (MoS2) is an outstanding friction reducer that enhances MPG due to slipperier surfaces between metal parts.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#3445204 - 08/03/14 10:44 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
....the Moly used after the prior oil change may have helped MPG more than Ceratec.

+1

My experience as well with a dozen vehicles over the years.

* Cera Tec seems to be best at extending the longevity of the engine with a more permanent bonding of metal surfaces.

* Moly (MoS2) is an outstanding friction reducer that enhances MPG due to slipperier surfaces between metal parts.


After having ran the MoS2 for 5K miles we changed oil and after about 100 miles added the Ceratec and started checking MPH on our 3500 mile.6.5 day trip to Canada. We hit 25.5 for the first three tanks and under very similar conditions we were down to 23.5 on the last three tanks. It was several years ago the last time I personally drove the car on a trip and it would hit about 22 MPH say 50K miles earlier. We have a road trip to MD (east coast) next month and should have the Ceratec out by then and I will plan to check with MoS2 after running Ceratec. If the MPG gets back up to 25.5 that would support MoS2 helps MPG more than Ceratec.

Currently I am thinking a name brand Dino plus a can of MoS2 is better than the most expensive Synthetic motor oil on the market for best engine life and highest MPG.

It was used in WWII piston aircraft engines to reduce friction for a short while even after total oil loss for a good reason.

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#3445696 - 08/04/14 01:57 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Florida, USA
Thanks, GaleHawkins!

This is very interesting! After a bad UOA, I used MoS2 for the first time in the Beetle for about 1,000 miles, but unfortunately either USPS or Blackstone lost that sample. I am much more concerned about engine protection and wear than good MPG. I am about to use Ceratec with Rotella 15W40 HDEO, which is a recommended oil for older air-cooled engines.
_________________________
1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 HDEO 15W40
1970 VW Beetle motorcycle 10W40 w/ LM Ceratec
2003 Honda Accord dino 5W20

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#3446930 - 08/05/14 04:18 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
I've finally reached 3,000 miles on the LM Ceratec I added to my 95 Harley Electra Glide 2 months ago. I'm leaning towards using Valvoline Vr1 dino 20w50 as I have read on this and some Harley forums to use dino in the evolution engines because they tend to leak oil using synthetics...IDK. Anyway, I'll be adding the mos2 to the next oil change and plan on changing the oil every 5k miles.

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#3447926 - 08/06/14 01:53 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
gman2304 are you going to run the Ceratec ot the 5K mark before you change?

I have decided to run the 4.6L to 5K just to make sure all that will coat the wear points will do so to the max but I do not know when the max point is.

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#3448403 - 08/06/14 09:36 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
GaleHawkins, I first thought I might run it to 5k but the bike is new to me and the ceratec bottle said to run it 3k so I'm thinking it is probably coated pretty well by now. I want to establish a baseline so I'll know exactly what's what when I get the transmission and primary oil changed as well. You might get some additional benefit from going to 5k...IDK. I also have the LM Ceratec in my 05 Chevy Avalanche and I might go as far as following the OLM on it....again...IDK yet.

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#3448434 - 08/06/14 10:10 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
I think another brand that drove a car without oil for a couple hundred miles did the drain after 3000 miles their ceramic additive was added so I guess perhaps max benefit ends at some point per the Youtube marketing video. Keep us posted.

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#3448820 - 08/07/14 12:32 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8232
Loc: NorthEast
Were you the person who mentioned "1 million revolutions"? Mind us telling why you chose that metrics? I am disappointed at myself for not catching this earlier but better late than never :-)

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#3449025 - 08/07/14 04:14 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
Vikas, I don't remember seeing the 1 million revolutions statement you're asking about. It wouldn't take too long though to reach that number. An engine turning at 2,000 rpm's at say 65 mph would turn 120,000 rpm's in an hour, so it would take less than 9 hours to turn 1 million rpm's. The instructions on the LM Ceratec bottle said to run it 3,000 miles....IIRC, which would be far more than 1 million RPM's.

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#3449268 - 08/07/14 09:17 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
On the run to St. Louis MO today in the 153K mile 2000 Towncar we hit MPG with the Ceratec that ranged from 23.5 to 26.5. While not much in the way of hard facts I do think Ceratec may improve MPG as much as MoS2. We will plan to do more gathering of data on our trip to MD next month. The best way to get 2 more MPG so far has been to cut forward motion by 15 MPH. smile It is amazing how much less gas it takes to go 55 than 70. One wild card is at 3500 miles of running the Ceratec (normal) we had to add a quart and we used Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 which contains Moly from Mobil and I think is perhaps the best of all motor oils on can run in an older engine. It is slick and we have started using it as cutting oil when sawing steel with the Sawsall and drilling steel. It makes blades last much longer and keeps them from turning blue from heat. Tue evening we sawed the remains of an 8' 1300 Tommy Lift Gate off the rear off the tail of our 16' dump bed and only used 4 blades.

On our test Ceratex engine that we ran for 1,000,000 RPM's the metrics were simple. My butt got tired of being out in the cold listening the the 325 Polaris 4-stoke do a fast idle for 11 hours over two days. smile

As you read we bought it from a guy that blew an oil cooler line running down the highway (40 MPH is max on that machine stock) until it was knocking loud enough for him to hear it. The rod bearing inserts were worn paper thin and the crank shaft was really chewed up and the connecting rod was scrap metal and totally black on the lower end. The rest of the engine parts still mic'ed in tolerance and were reused for the 11 hours of fast idle testing. I covered the results when I posted it last Jan. We did pick up a tight used bottom end but due to distractions of life when it got warmer we did not rebuild the engine so now we hoping to get on it when it gets too wet to work outside. With the old back hoe we have cleared an acre of small trees for another parking lot at church and I still have to put that on grade and haul the gravel from a pit two miles up the road.

Back to Ceratec we plan to run it in both of the 325cc Polaris ATV's just to increase the odds of not trashing an engine use to total lost of motor oil. We will be using the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 in all of our air cooled engines going forward and other gas engines that we change ourselves. If Ceratec is not in the crankcase then I expect MoS2 will be or Archoil AR9100.

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#3449912 - 08/08/14 03:15 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gman2304 Offline


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 733
Loc: n.c.
I just finished changing the oil 'with the LM Ceratec in it' in my Harley. 3 qts 24 0zs of Valvoline Vr1 20w50 and added 8 ozs of MoS2 to make 4 qts which is the oil capacity of my bike. I'll have to get used to the oil being black looking just after a fresh oil change...LOL! My plan is to run it 5,000 miles between changes. I'm curious about the mpg's but my main reason for using the LM Ceratec and MOS2 is hopefully for longevity. I got 51 mpg on my last fill up and will report back on my mpg's at my next few fill ups.

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#3450840 - 08/09/14 07:16 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
I agree black is hard to adjust to in fresh oil change. smile Plan to do the same in the 4.6L engine now running the Ceratec.

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#3450868 - 08/09/14 07:53 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7364
Loc: Saskatoon canada
My Harley ran cooler with mos2 in the sump and every little bit helps with an air cooled engine.
My habit is now to flush any new to me engines. Once I'm satisfied the innards are clean I use a long drain oil,old ultra since I've got a stockpile and run it with ceratec for as long as humanly possible,then mos2 every subsequent oil change.
I'm not an idiot. And work hard for my money. I'm also open minded. If I use a product and it does nothing then I don't buy it again. Simple.
Cera-tec and mos2 have consistently proven fuel economy benefits in every v-8 I've used them in and based on data I've acquired with an IR gun they lower operating temps which in turn lowers oil temps.
I'm not trying to sell the stuff or convince anyone to use it. I'm merely sharing my experiences with a product.

I've used many different additives over the years. From slick 50 to duralube and everything in between. All of them were only purchased once because they did nothing to help fuel economy. Even used zmax with amsoil and nothing changed.
Yes today's oils are very well formulated and perhaps they are fine just the way they are however I've proven time and time again that an 8 dollar can of mos2 saves me hundreds in fuel every oci.
I proved it with my charger when I tested it last year. I proved it with my 99 silverado,which gained 150km per tank in comparison to before using the additive.
I have integrity and my word is my bond and the measure of a man. I wouldn't say the stuff worked if it didn't. That would make me a liar and mean my word meaningless,which as a man is unacceptable.
In the end I don't care if anyone uses the stuff. Don't if it makes you uncomfortable because in the end today's oils are very good. But for me I want that extra little bit more.
If mos2 didn't save me fuel I wouldn't use it. I'm not in the habit of burning money and if there was no return I wouldn't buy it.
My 16 air compressors and 7 generators get 1/4 can of mos2 every second oil change.
I've got 2 compressors with very high hours. By my count the oldest has a nominal 15000 hours on a Honda 5.5 160cc engine and the second oldest has a nominal 12000 hours on it.
My service guy says they are rated for 5000 hours before requiring rebuild. Mine have had nothing but oil changes and a frankenbrew fuel additive of my own design.
These 2 compressors run 10 hours a day,6 days a week and have never required so much as a gasket replacement.
When I change the plugs they are clean,so that kinda flies in the face of arco who swears that mos2 will leave deposits.

Oh. I almost forgot. I was asked to look at the plugs in my charger which used both mos2 and has had ceratec.
After 35000 miles with either one of these products in the oil or the other when I checked 4 plugs yesterday the plugs had no deposits whatsoever. None.
Car now has 85000 miles on it.
So I'm satisfied,even if others aren't. I'm not trying to change anyone's minds,I'm just sharing my experiences.
And yes if I found that the results were negative I would share them with the forum to potentially save another member from harm.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3450919 - 08/09/14 08:56 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
dennishiip Offline


Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 56
Loc: Ca
Thanks Clevy

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#3450934 - 08/09/14 09:18 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
keesue Online   happy


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 98
Loc: San Francisco
Thank you for this post. I am nearing the end of the treatment cycle with Ceratec. My oil remains completely usable-looking at 2x the OCI. Never has it ever done that. At its OCI, it would be opaque. It is the color of dark honey now. I should also add I have been using LC-20 as well. I have noticed a gain in MPG on the open road and a smidge in the city. My plugs are also perfect.

I would like to ask if you add in Moly with the subsequent oil change? I have been reading this thread and there appears to be some confusion. I'm going to add it unless there is a compelling reason not to do so. Your input would be most appreciated.

Edit: I just re-read the recent posts and it appears adding Moly next is what is being done. No sense in reinventing the wheel.


Edited by keesue (08/09/14 09:32 PM)
_________________________
1981 Turbo Volvo with over 313,000 miles (bought new)
2001 S60-T5 Volvo

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#3451048 - 08/09/14 10:50 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
keesue:

Lubro Moly engineers recommend that Cera Tech and MoS2 be used separately for maximum benefit.

Like Clevy, I run Cera Tech for at least 5,000 miles in my vehicles and then MoS2 each oil change after that. Power equipment can also benefit from MoS2 and I use it in all my outdoor equipment.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#3454542 - 08/13/14 02:27 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Clevy thanks for that detailed post since I first used MoS2 and Ceratec some 8 months ago. Anti-friction additives that create no harm are a good thing in my book. If temps go down that is very telling.

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#3455214 - 08/14/14 11:45 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
keesue Online   happy


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 98
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
keesue:

Lubro Moly engineers recommend that Cera Tech and MoS2 be used separately for maximum benefit.

Like Clevy, I run Cera Tech for at least 5,000 miles in my vehicles and then MoS2 each oil change after that. Power equipment can also benefit from MoS2 and I use it in all my outdoor equipment.


Many thanks for the reply. I'll add it in at my next oil change. I am very pleased with the results overall.
_________________________
1981 Turbo Volvo with over 313,000 miles (bought new)
2001 S60-T5 Volvo

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#3455309 - 08/14/14 01:00 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
keesue Online   happy


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 98
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
keesue:

Lubro Moly engineers recommend that Cera Tech and MoS2 be used separately for maximum benefit.

Like Clevy, I run Cera Tech for at least 5,000 miles in my vehicles and then MoS2 each oil change after that. Power equipment can also benefit from MoS2 and I use it in all my outdoor equipment.


Thanks!
_________________________
1981 Turbo Volvo with over 313,000 miles (bought new)
2001 S60-T5 Volvo

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#3456497 - 08/15/14 03:22 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
As a quick update I would up driving the 2000 Towncar (155K miles) that still has the Ceratec in the oil for about 5K miles now so I just checked average mileage after resetting it after our last road trip and the average was 20 MPG. We live in a rural area so it is not stop and good all the time but the last time I checked local driving for a long period of time it was like 11 MPG average. I am sure there are other factors like winter driving etc but I expect the Ceratec is a factor. Oil consumption rate has not increased or decrease of about a quart every 3000 miles and it is not a leaker.

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#3459979 - 08/20/14 12:32 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
650 mile trip in the Towncar this week averaged 24 MPH and we hit 7K on the Ceratec fill. It now has been topped of twice with M1 MH 10W-40 so that is half a gallon when it specs 5W-20 so that could hurt mileage a tad perhaps.

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#3460033 - 08/20/14 06:12 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21317
Loc: NY
I'm curious if Ceratec can reduce smoking/oil use like MoS2 did in my mower. I personally have not tried Ceratec.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3460238 - 08/20/14 11:40 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
dennishiip Offline


Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 56
Loc: Ca
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
650 mile trip in the Towncar this week averaged 24 MPH and we hit 7K on the Ceratec fill. It now has been topped of twice with M1 MH 10W-40 so that is half a gallon when it specs 5W-20 so that could hurt mileage a tad perhaps.

So..to summarize: Are you getting a gain from 20mpg to 24 mpg with Ceratec?

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#3461116 - 08/21/14 09:45 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dennishiip]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Ceratec as not reduced or increased the 1 quart burn rate per 3K miles in the old towncar 4.6L engine and it has never smoked.

On MPG I did not do a recent test but I remember 22 MPH from a long time ago. MoS2 and Ceratec may be of a same help with mileage by 2 MPH but the quieter engine with either tells me they help to some degree. Again with just proper grade of motor oil the engine should wear out the chassis. smile

Some people spend money on golfing, bass boats, etc. I like to spend extra on lubes. smile

If we make the run to WI in a few weeks I may just do it with fresh oil for the heck of it and add something before the upcoming MD run after the WI run.

Still wanting to try Archoil AR 9300 but the $200 per gallon price is holding me off. That is only $2 per quart of motor oil however and a gallon will do everything we own twice (you add 1.12 oz per quart) I saw on Jay Leno website.

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#3461280 - 08/21/14 12:39 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
123Saab Online   sleepy


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1313
Loc: PA
We have been running Ceratec in the wifes 08 Liberty for around 6000 miles now.

The Corporate 3.7 V6 has never been this quiet.
You can barely hear it idle.

It feels very smooth and responsive too.

Mileage....I never really followed that much but the Wife tells me that she gets a mile or more per gallon.

I put gas in it yesterday and will remind her to check on the next fill.

Anyhow, I'm sold on the stuff.
_________________________
Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated
Nothin' to do and no where to go-o-oh I wanna be sedated

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#3461306 - 08/21/14 01:09 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Here are some facts on engine additives:


Cera Tec by LiquiMoly is Boron Nitride in an oil carrier.

Boron type components are already included in most motor oils.

LiquiMoly Oil Additive by LiquiMoly is a suspension of SOLID MoS2 powders in an oil carrier.

Better moly chemistries are already included in most motor oil PI additive packages.


RESTORE Engine Restorer,
Quote:
RESTORE repairs worn out areas in the cylinder walls to improve the seal between piston rings and cylinder walls.
This stuff contains small particles of copper, silver, and lead.

NOW, do you really want any of this stuff in your motor oil, a motor oil that has had thousands of dollars of Research and Development behind it to yield a "balanced" lubricant, verses some company that does not?

In engines showing no signs of problems or evidence of a problem, the only benefit is to the OTC additive company.


Edited by MolaKule (08/21/14 01:15 PM)
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#3461337 - 08/21/14 01:33 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: MolaKule]
123Saab Online   sleepy


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1313
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


NOW, do you really want any of this stuff in your motor oil, a motor oil that has had thousands of dollars of Research and Development behind it to yield a "balanced" lubricant, verses some company that does not?

In engines showing no signs of problems or evidence of a problem, the only benefit is to the OTC additive company.


Lubro Moly/Liqui Moly is a Oil Company that sells Motor Oil as well as Additives.

What Makes you believe that they dont have a R&D department with a Good Budget?
_________________________
Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated
Nothin' to do and no where to go-o-oh I wanna be sedated

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#3461344 - 08/21/14 01:37 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
What makes you believe they need to sell OTC additives if they have such a great motor oil, other than increased sales?
_________________________
My bank has a service where they text me my balance every afternoon. I just don’t think they should add “LOL” to the end. smile

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#3461348 - 08/21/14 01:40 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 123Saab]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3350
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


NOW, do you really want any of this stuff in your motor oil, a motor oil that has had thousands of dollars of Research and Development behind it to yield a "balanced" lubricant, verses some company that does not?

In engines showing no signs of problems or evidence of a problem, the only benefit is to the OTC additive company.


Lubro Moly/Liqui Moly is a Oil Company that sells Motor Oil as well as Additives.

What Makes you believe that they dont have a R&D department with a Good Budget?


What makes you believe they do? smile

Why would a company that sells oil need to sell oil additives?

Shell/Exxon/Quaker State/Castrol just to name a few don't.


Edited by Trajan (08/21/14 01:45 PM)
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Lack of harm does not mean proof of benefit.

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#3461356 - 08/21/14 01:46 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: MolaKule]
123Saab Online   sleepy


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1313
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
What makes you believe they need to sell OTC additives if they have such a great motor oil, other than increased sales?


I see no reason why a company should not always go for increased sales, Do you?

I'll take a wild guess tho:

They, Like many other oil companies make mid range priced oils for High volume sales. Im sure they have a price point to meet in order to stay competetive.

The company is doing very well in Europe.

The additives are an extra expense for those that want/need them.



Edited by 123Saab (08/21/14 01:49 PM)
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Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated
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#3461388 - 08/21/14 02:19 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Trajan]
Apollo14 Offline


Registered: 08/18/14
Posts: 755
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Why would a company that sells oil need to sell oil additives?

Shell/Exxon/Quaker State/Castrol just to name a few don't.


I thought Shell owned Slick 50.

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#3461405 - 08/21/14 02:33 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Not unless SOPUS owns ITW Global Brands.
_________________________
My bank has a service where they text me my balance every afternoon. I just don’t think they should add “LOL” to the end. smile

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#3461419 - 08/21/14 02:41 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Apollo14 Offline


Registered: 08/18/14
Posts: 755
Loc: CA
Looks like Shell completed the sale of Slick 50 to ITW in 2011.

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#3461869 - 08/21/14 09:41 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
I think both Liqui Moly and Archoil dealt with the commercial engines first perhaps. I know that is the case with Archoil based on my research but they are now moving into the auto market. Stiction in the Ford diesels I think opened the door for Archoil.

When you have an engine that make take 100 quarts to fill and you move the OCI from 250 hours to 500 by using an Archoil product that can be a huge cost savings all way around.

Most I expect agree no motor oil additives are needed for our daily drivers so the engine will wear out the chassis.

That can be a different story for an engine 60' long weighing in at several several tons deep inside of a ship.

For most on this site motor oil is a hobby that takes our cash. smile

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#3462524 - 08/22/14 05:48 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Some people spend money on golfing, bass boats, etc. I like to spend extra on lubes. smile


One can also add; firearms/ammo stockpiling, gambling, booze, cancer sticks/ceegars, 'recreational' drugs, and MANY other things to the above list. wink
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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#3462573 - 08/22/14 06:43 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 24
Loc: Ontario,Canada
"Most I expect agree no motor oil additives are needed for our daily drivers"

well I had been in league "the oil is in perfection", now i quit

a reason: added Xenum MoX-G
and it feels a difference , especially in acceleration, can not say about fuel saving, not my style of driving (car is g37)

So, excluding 95% additives on market that really do nothing at the best. only few will work.

And for oil manufactures, are they really interesting in the best product? I believe not:
A. the product should competitive in the price, mixing a perfection will inflate it significantly
B. storage life, sedimentation, transportation in volume, compatibility
C. environment requirements
D. test on outdated primitive engines, not reflecting a modern engines and a driving cycle.
E. oil specifications or criteria artificially lowered

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#3462588 - 08/22/14 06:59 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Oh yes, additional carbon and moly powders should really improve oil quality.

I have no idea what you are trying to say in the rest of your post.


Edited by MolaKule (08/22/14 07:00 PM)
_________________________
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#3462623 - 08/22/14 07:49 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: MolaKule]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 24
Loc: Ontario,Canada
"what you are trying to say in the rest"
that was my delirium of unconsciously

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#3463005 - 08/23/14 10:40 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Additives had their day maybe 50 years ago but in cars built in the last 50 years I have not seen one engine die before the chassis where the motor oil stated in the manual and the OCI where followed. MoS2 and Ceratec does cut engine noise in my experience so that sounds like a plus to my ears. In abused engines they may even add a few miles to an engines life.

One additive that I use often in engines is Seafoam as a flush right before the oil change. The oil can be relative clear right before a change but after 20 minutes of idle the Seafoam will make it get very dark sometimes. That sold me on that it was working well and I was happy for a long time until I had another thought. What if all the Seafoam was doing was flushing the oil filter and putting carbon back into the engine oil? Now I have to do a filter only change some day then add the Seafoam. smile

Speaking of filter only changes I have cleared up new oil after doing a change in an abused engine and going with a high detergent oil like Rotella 5W-40 in an old engine that only had seen dino oil and extended OCI's. The 1989 Ford 429 in the F700 truck is one case. We got it showing 144K and am clueless to its history. It took two days for the crud in the old NAPA Gold oil filter to drain out and the Rotella was black after 200 miles but after about three filter only changes it cleared up and 5 years later is relative clear after maybe 1000+ miles. We have a lot of gravel hauling coming up and have the wood bed flooring removed and going back with steel plate and will be changing the oil. The drain plug is very worn so it is a fine line between not getting it tight enough and stripping it out so I try not to 'over' change it. smile

Again lubes are of interest to me and some marketing departments to an awesome job of peeking that interest. smile

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#3463065 - 08/23/14 12:09 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14642
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins


...One additive that I use often in engines is Seafoam as a flush right before the oil change. The oil can be relative clear right before a change but after 20 minutes of idle the Seafoam will make it get very dark sometimes. That sold me on that it was working well and I was happy for a long time until I had another thought. What if all the Seafoam was doing was flushing the oil filter and putting carbon back into the engine oil? Now I have to do a filter only change some day then add the Seafoam.... smile



Any solvent in a thin mineral oil will thin out the engine oil and soften sludge.

That's basically the definition of an engine flush product. You add it before an oil change to get rid of indicated or suspected sludge and maybe varnish.

In a neglected engine, such as an engine which has not had regular oil changes or proper maintenance, a Flush can help with the cleaning.

But it is beyond me why someone would leave a flush type product in an engine over an OCI.
_________________________
My bank has a service where they text me my balance every afternoon. I just don’t think they should add “LOL” to the end. smile

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#3464113 - 08/24/14 09:44 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Florida, USA
After following all the Liqui-Moly Ceratec and MOS2 threads for months, I finally added 150 ml Ceratec to the 2.5 liters fresh HDEO 15W-40 in the Beetle today.

The opaque cafe au lait color was a surprise to me!

Will be very interested to see what the next UOA (many months from now) reads.
_________________________
1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 HDEO 15W40
1970 VW Beetle motorcycle 10W40 w/ LM Ceratec
2003 Honda Accord dino 5W20

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#3475718 - 09/06/14 12:39 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
After 7700 miles of running the Ceratec in the 2000 Towncar now with 156K miles we changed oil using 5W/20.At the same point and more or less under same conditions MPG is running around same as with Ceratec. I have a can of MoS2 that I can add at some point. Dropped from 70 to 45 now that increased MPG.:)

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#3475722 - 09/06/14 12:49 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
dennishiip Offline


Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 56
Loc: Ca
[quote=GaleHawkins]After 7700 miles of running the Ceratec in the 2000 Towncar now with 156K miles we changed oil using 5W/20.At the same point and more or less under same conditions MPG is running around same as with Ceratec. I have a can of MoS2 that I can add at some point. Dropped from 70 to 45 now that increased MPG.:) [/quote

"Dropped from 70 to 45" What does this mean? Please clarify.

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#3475728 - 09/06/14 12:58 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1313
Loc: USA
Perhaps the weather temperature has decreased from 70 to 45?

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#3476118 - 09/06/14 09:59 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
Sorry. The speed limit.

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#3478298 - 09/09/14 12:12 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 350
Loc: Murray KY USA
After we crossed from IL to WI on to Appleton mpg went from 24 to 26.5. Now on return trip driving 55-65 with some 30 mph towns hitting 26.5.

Will be picking up I-39 soon and will see what it does to mpg.

Starting to wondering if it may take may take MoS2 300-400 miles to fully coat parts. We know from WWII planes MoS2 protected engines for a short period of time after totally loosing engine oil.

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#3478322 - 09/09/14 12:43 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Florida, USA
How many miles for Ceratec to fully coat parts? Is it the same as MOS2?
_________________________
1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 HDEO 15W40
1970 VW Beetle motorcycle 10W40 w/ LM Ceratec
2003 Honda Accord dino 5W20

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