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#3349758 - 04/22/14 12:13 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
domer10 Offline


Registered: 02/26/14
Posts: 234
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Originally Posted By: dave5358

Why not stick with one product or the other and follow the label directions?

Both products - L-M Ceratec and L-M MoS2 Anti-Friction - have their followers and detractors. Ceratec provides wear protection by adding a ceramic coating to your engines friction surfaces. MoS2 fills in the pores of the metal. MoS2 has been in use for a much longer period and the industrial benefits of MoS2 are well known - automotive benefits less so. Ceratec is a new kid on the block, much more pricey and its benefits may last longer.

Big question: What are you trying to accomplish? If you have a specific goal you wish to accomplish (e.g. reduce oil consumption past the rings), then you may get a more meaningful response.

Please note that if this thread continues for any length of time, someone (who has never used either additive) will jump in and announce that you don't need either product. Strangely enough, they might be right if your engine is well ordered, gets regular oil changes, etc.


I just picked up a 2014 Subaru Sti. I want to get the most life out of it. I want the best protection for the engine. I figured that ceratec was a good additive to use every 30k as instructed and that the MoS2 was a good additive to use every oil change.



You are doing the right thing. Reduce friction, reduce wear.....and the pro's are endless.
_________________________
2012 Dodge Ram Sport
2002 BMW M3
2008 BMW 135i

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#3349835 - 04/22/14 06:48 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: domer10]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: domer10


You are doing the right thing. Reduce friction, reduce wear.....and the pro's are endless.


Would it be okay to use both ceratec and MoS2 on the same oil change or no?
_________________________
'14 Subaru Impreza STI hatchback (Castrol 0w40 with '09+ Mazda RX8 Tokyo Roki oil filter )

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#3349844 - 04/22/14 07:08 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: domer10]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Upper Midwest
If only there was a way you could show it does any of those things.

Originally Posted By: domer10
You are doing the right thing. Reduce friction, reduce wear.....and the pro's are endless.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 189K
1996 Honda Accord, 203K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 306K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 224K

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#3349883 - 04/22/14 08:06 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1309
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Would it be okay to use both ceratec and MoS2 on the same oil change or no?


Liqui Moly says that Cera Tec is their best friction modifier and recommends you use Cera Tec (at a 5% - 6% dose) without the MoS2 Lubro Moly.

The MoS2 should ideally be used during each oil change after the initial application of Cera Tec, which has long-term binding properties. Using Lubro Moly (MoS2) separately from Cera Tec ensures that both products won't be competing with each other and a higher quality layer of Cera Tec will bind more effectively to metal surfaces.

No harm will be done should MoS2 and Cera Tec be combined, but they will both be competing with each other unnecessarily.

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#3349913 - 04/22/14 08:40 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Would it be okay to use both ceratec and MoS2 on the same oil change or no?


Liqui Moly says that Cera Tec is their best friction modifier and recommends you use Cera Tec (at a 5% - 6% dose) without the MoS2 Lubro Moly.

The MoS2 should ideally be used during each oil change after the initial application of Cera Tec, which has long-term binding properties. Using Lubro Moly (MoS2) separately from Cera Tec ensures that both products won't be competing with each other and a higher quality layer of Cera Tec will bind more effectively to metal surfaces.

No harm will be done should MoS2 and Cera Tec be combined, but they will both be competing with each other unnecessarily.


I got conflicting info from them with regard to using both products. Basically one person from their company said if you use Ceratec stick with Ceratec, don't change over to MoS2, and vice versa. Another person said it was fine.

As you mentioned both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3350396 - 04/22/14 06:50 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: demarpaint]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1309
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.


I agree!

I just summarized the e-mail I received from a Liqui Moly Technician in German and he did not recommend using both products at the same time.

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#3350681 - 04/22/14 11:16 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.


I agree!

I just summarized the e-mail I received from a Liqui Moly Technician in German and he did not recommend using both products at the same time.

Not at the same time, but it's OK to use the MoS2 between 30k ceratec intervals, right?
_________________________
'14 Subaru Impreza STI hatchback (Castrol 0w40 with '09+ Mazda RX8 Tokyo Roki oil filter )

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#3350747 - 04/23/14 02:16 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1309
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
It's OK to use the MoS2 between 30k ceratec intervals, right?

Yes, but not necessary to use the Mos2 with Cera Tec every 30K.

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#3350760 - 04/23/14 05:01 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Jteran5]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Jteran5
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Both people said Ceratec was the better of the two products and they shouldn't be in the sump at the same time. I would feel better if both people were on the same page.


I agree!

I just summarized the e-mail I received from a Liqui Moly Technician in German and he did not recommend using both products at the same time.

Not at the same time, but it's OK to use the MoS2 between 30k ceratec intervals, right?


In the case of my communications with them, it depends on who replied. One member of their staff said if you start with Ceratec you should continue with Ceratec, and the same goes for MoS2. Another person said it was fine to switch off. Several members here have switched off with no problems to report. My only beef is everyone at LM should be on the same page. hide That is not an attack against them or their products, I was stating what I learned by emailing them. For the record I occasionally use their products and had good results. IIRC other members emailed them and were told switching off is not a problem.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3350872 - 04/23/14 08:27 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1309
Loc: USA
demarpaint:

I appreciate your contributions on this fine Forum and agree that the technicians at Liqui Moly should be on the same page, but there is enough data to give us a general idea that the products perform as advertised.

To summarize things from my perspective, I dug-up the following e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn" <Harry.Hartkorn@liqui-moly.de>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains (to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition (specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment, extreme pressure and hot conditions).

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

I. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
Application Engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote

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#3350894 - 04/23/14 08:54 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
demarpaint:

I appreciate your contributions on this fine Forum and agree that the technicians at Liqui Moly should be on the same page, but there is enough data to give us a general idea that the products perform as advertised.

To summarize things from my perspective, I dug-up the following e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn" <Harry.Hartkorn@liqui-moly.de>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains (to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition (specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment, extreme pressure and hot conditions).

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

I. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
Application Engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote

Great. This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for the information.
Quick question, is the 5-6% replacing the oil or is it in addition to the the normal fill?
_________________________
'14 Subaru Impreza STI hatchback (Castrol 0w40 with '09+ Mazda RX8 Tokyo Roki oil filter )

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#3350898 - 04/23/14 09:06 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1309
Loc: USA
I subtract the additive from the normal amount of oil that otherwise would have been added.

However, most vehicles take more oil than is listed on the spec sheet so an extra 10-oz's won't hurt anything.

Cera Tec and MoS2 come in 300L bottles which is approximately 10-oz's.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#3350913 - 04/23/14 09:29 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: 147_Grain]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21301
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
demarpaint:

I appreciate your contributions on this fine Forum and agree that the technicians at Liqui Moly should be on the same page, but there is enough data to give us a general idea that the products perform as advertised.

To summarize things from my perspective, I dug-up the following e-mail from Liqui-Moly of Germany last summer:

Quote:

From: "Harry Hartkorn" <Harry.Hartkorn@liqui-moly.de>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 4:44:33 AM
Subject: Antwort: WG: Questions About Cera-Tec and Lubro-Moly MoS2

Hello Mr. ......

Sorry for being so late but I've had problems with me account.

Concerning your question about the CERA TEC - this is the best friction modifier we have at the moment. It's specially developed for aluminum based engines to protect the surface by chemical agents and solid lubricants.

We recommend a ratio of 5% - 6% because there may be an influence on the additive package of the oil. In combination - 5000 miles oil changing intervals and CERA TEC - I suggest the usage of CERA TEC at the first oil change and the usage of MoS2 based friction modifier the next 2 oil drains (to fill up the loss of the solid lubricant particles with the oil). The chemical component of the CERA TEC will stay in the surface for a long time and so you don't need to replenish it at every oil change.

The solid lubricant in both products protects the surface of the engine at every condition (specially in extreme conditions where the oil isn't able to build up a stable lubrication - engine starting - lubrication at the first moment, extreme pressure and hot conditions).

I hope I could help you and sorry again for the late answer.


Best Regards from Ulm

I. A.

Harry Hartkorn
Anwendungstechniker
Application Engineer

Phone: +49 731 / 14 20 - 895
Mobile: +49 172 / 7 24 84 85
Fax: +49 731 / 14 20 - 44895

LIQUI MOLY GMBH
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4
D-89081 Ulm

www.liqui-moly.de

Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost

Unquote


Thanks for the kind words. I was just sharing my experience in communicating with two different people from LM a while back. As I already mentioned people are using both products, just don't use both at the same time and you should be fine. I think they make good products so I am in no way bashing them.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#3350944 - 04/23/14 09:52 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8217
Loc: NorthEast
If Ceratec is a coating, why is it needed on new engine? Not only it is not needed, would it not lead to more problems? Think what coating is trying to do. It is trying to reduce the clearance between the cylinder bore and piston rings. If the engine is new, is the reduction advisable?

Additives in new engine seems counter productive and might lead to problems rather than solving any non-existent issues. It is like throwing unneeded antibiotic at a body. It will only do harm.

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#3350991 - 04/23/14 10:27 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Vikas]
Jteran5 Offline


Registered: 04/19/14
Posts: 12
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If Ceratec is a coating, why is it needed on new engine? Not only it is not needed, would it not lead to more problems? Think what coating is trying to do. It is trying to reduce the clearance between the cylinder bore and piston rings. If the engine is new, is the reduction advisable?

Additives in new engine seems counter productive and might lead to problems rather than solving any non-existent issues. It is like throwing unneeded antibiotic at a body. It will only do harm.

I feel that the coating will prevent metal on metal contact. I would rather use this now that there are no problems rather than use it when I have there are issues.
_________________________
'14 Subaru Impreza STI hatchback (Castrol 0w40 with '09+ Mazda RX8 Tokyo Roki oil filter )

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