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#3014395 - 05/26/13 11:48 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
gus7 Offline


Registered: 08/14/11
Posts: 12
Loc: va
graphite is BAD news for a lub ...it wear down like a lapping job and ceramics ....[censored] worst than graphite pour in sand !!!

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#3014882 - 05/27/13 03:00 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: MBS500]
dino33 Offline


Registered: 02/11/13
Posts: 72
Loc: British Columbia
If Liqui Moly is correct, and the Ceratec does last for 50K Kms then it would be fairly economical, especially if it drops fuel consumption in any amount. The question is does it actually fully benefit the engine that long? I've heard that drivers in Germany use it at every oci for maximum benefits. Maybe their oci's are longer than 20K? I have a bottle of Ceratec sitting here which I'm planning on putting in on the next oc. I hope to do 20K kms on oci with M1 ep then, if I like the results plan on using 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec on oci thereafter. Clevy uses it on every second oci, alternating with LM moly. If I'm not happy with Ceratec I will give Lubegard's Bio Tech a shot....


Edited by dino33 (05/27/13 03:09 PM)
_________________________
2004 Toyota Prius 96K miles Mobil1 EP Ceratec Trd filter
1996 Geo Metro gas mizer oil guzzling $300 pizza man car
1987 Ford E150 63k miles

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#3015393 - 05/27/13 11:51 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: dino33]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7200
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: dino33
If Liqui Moly is correct, and the Ceratec does last for 50K Kms then it would be fairly economical, especially if it drops fuel consumption in any amount. The question is does it actually fully benefit the engine that long? I've heard that drivers in Germany use it at every oci for maximum benefits. Maybe their oci's are longer than 20K? I have a bottle of Ceratec sitting here which I'm planning on putting in on the next oc. I hope to do 20K kms on oci with M1 ep then, if I like the results plan on using 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec on oci thereafter. Clevy uses it on every second oci, alternating with LM moly. If I'm not happy with Ceratec I will give Lubegard's Bio Tech a shot....



You've misunderstood. I use the ceratec first. Then an interval of just oil,then a full can of mos2,then half a can of mos2 at every oci.
I cannot comment yet on how this has worked out since I've only put 20000 on the hemi.
Once the 4v gets back on the road it will be the real test mule,because its going to be hit with nitrous and still be my dd.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3015402 - 05/28/13 12:18 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Clevy]
dino33 Offline


Registered: 02/11/13
Posts: 72
Loc: British Columbia
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: dino33
If Liqui Moly is correct, and the Ceratec does last for 50K Kms then it would be fairly economical, especially if it drops fuel consumption in any amount. The question is does it actually fully benefit the engine that long? I've heard that drivers in Germany use it at every oci for maximum benefits. Maybe their oci's are longer than 20K? I have a bottle of Ceratec sitting here which I'm planning on putting in on the next oc. I hope to do 20K kms on oci with M1 ep then, if I like the results plan on using 1/2 a bottle of Ceratec on oci thereafter. Clevy uses it on every second oci, alternating with LM moly. If I'm not happy with Ceratec I will give Lubegard's Bio Tech a shot....



You've misunderstood. I use the ceratec first. Then an interval of just oil,then a full can of mos2,then half a can of mos2 at every oci.
I cannot comment yet on how this has worked out since I've only put 20000 on the hemi.
Once the 4v gets back on the road it will be the real test mule,because its going to be hit with nitrous and still be my dd.


Cheers, keep us updated. Especially interested if you see any fuel mileage increases... cheers
_________________________
2004 Toyota Prius 96K miles Mobil1 EP Ceratec Trd filter
1996 Geo Metro gas mizer oil guzzling $300 pizza man car
1987 Ford E150 63k miles

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#3015408 - 05/28/13 12:32 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7200
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Dino.
As far as mos2 goes its always led to less fuel consumption.
I'm not sure that cera-tec can help in this regard however that's not why I'm using it. I'm using cera-tec to lessen wear,which I'm confident it does.
147 grain actually linked an article to me about ceratec,and it was tested and proven to lessen or eliminate wear.
I'd love 147 grain to link this thread to that article,I hadn't seen it before however from my own digging I found the theory and idea to be sound,hence my use of it.
Liqui-moly/lubro-moly has proven to me to be a reliable and sturdy company,and I'm confident in their claims of their products. In a market where everything is labelled snake oil their products stand up and prove that they aren't,
Great company,great products.
In regards to cera-tec I had used it in my old 2v in my mustang. When it spit its second plug I decided to go 4v,and ditch the 2v,but I tore the 2v apart to sell in the mustang forums.
The cera-tec actually filled in the wear scar on both cams,and left a layer behind that was so hard I used a nail to try and scratch it to no avail. It would have taken a belt sander to remove the layer cera-tec left behind,which tells me that cera-tec eliminates metal on metal contact,which in my mind eliminates wear.
Just my experience. Your results may vary.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3015420 - 05/28/13 01:53 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MBS500 Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 665
Loc: Crestwood,KY
This topic reminded me to go get it. I used it and MoS2with good result. Just ordered 8 cans from bav autosport, since they have it for cheapest price- $20 and free shipping if it's more than $150 order.
Anyway people often afraid that it will mess with their plugs.
Will see, will use it with every oil change in FIAT, since it is easy to change plugs and they are due every 32k miles anyway. Correct dosage, little less than full can, and dump rest to bimmer.
Fiat's little engine is little noisy (they all do that), will see maybe it will actually quite it down a little.
_________________________
13 Fiat 500Turbo:9k,M1 0w40/Mopar filter+Ceratec
06 BMW 550i:81k,Mag1 5w40/Champ filter+MoS2
06 Frontier:110k,Oil lefovers mix/P1

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#3015607 - 05/28/13 09:53 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8091
Loc: NorthEast
Is Ceratec this good for worn out engine or only for new engine? I would have no trouble putting liquid sand in my lawn mower provided it came with stellar review :-) I have had it with it.

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#3015962 - 05/28/13 04:33 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
MBS500 Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 665
Loc: Crestwood,KY
I've heard claims that it good for both. New - it covers and protects engine internals - old ones- it fills gaps,scratches and so on and significantly lowers rattle, tapping and so on. Some use it with thick oil before selling half dead car before sale in EU.
_________________________
13 Fiat 500Turbo:9k,M1 0w40/Mopar filter+Ceratec
06 BMW 550i:81k,Mag1 5w40/Champ filter+MoS2
06 Frontier:110k,Oil lefovers mix/P1

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#3270918 - 02/05/14 12:21 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: Clevy]
GaleHawkins Offline


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 288
Loc: Murray KY USA
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Cera-tec is the ultimate additive.
It works the same as mos2 however it uses nano particles of ceramic to create the barrier and the layer is so hard you need a belt sander to grind it off. I have 6 cans of it and will only use it in a newer engine because its so hard to find.
That is the greatest additive on earth. I love the stuff.
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.


Clevy could you give us an update.

We finally got the 2002 Polaris 325 ATV engine top end torn down and removed the connecting rod after getting 11.5 hours of run time at a fast idle on the engine running Liqui Moly Ceratec in Mobil 1 10w-40 High Mileage engine oil.

We bought this 'project' ATV with a known damaged engine due to being ran bone dry of motor oil when the guy blew an oil cooler line when running down the road. It turned out the crankshaft was chewed up as well as the connecting rod after being ran with the rod inserts spinning in the rod cap.

Picked up a used rod off of eBay and went back with Standard size rod inserts and a new set of rings after we smoothed off the crankshaft some 180 grit emery strips by hand with the crankshaft still in the ATV (did not split the engine case) then hit it a bit with 800 grit paper.

After about 10 total hours of idle time with it setting in an open shop I could hear a knock when getting on the throttle hard at no load.

While there was little hope it would hold up I was surprise after over 11 hours of run time as noted above that it still was making good power and on tear down the rod inserts were getting thinner but had NOT spun and the used connecting rod looked fine after about 11.5 hours. The crankshaft still has groves in it from the initial damage of running without motor oil but the groves now feel smooth in the direction of rotation but are still there if you feel from side to side of the rod journal on the crank.

The test of Liqui Moly Ceratec was a success in that the kids good some wrenching experience after two tear downs and one assembly and we know the Ceratec does lay down a smooth glassy looking coat in places of imperfections on inspecting the cylinder and cam on tear down.

We only had a window of about 6 hours where it was warm enough to tear down and look at the parts after the engine had idled for the 11+ hours with Ceratec in the oil at the rate per Liqui Moly states on the can.

Since Sunday afternoon we have now had two back to back ice storms and currently the lights are blinking and going off from time to time. The rain stopped a couple hours ago but tree limbs are popping as they freeze harder and the wind is getting stronger.

At some point (maybe March) since we are having a 'real' winter for the first time in many years I want to get some photos but not sure I have the equipment to do a good job. The glassy finish (on parts that saw a lot of pressure/friction) may rule out the use of a flash.

I can tell you the piston shirts still looked bad. Keep in mind we put the engine back together with the same 12 year old parts that are OEM except for the used rod and new standard size rings and rod bearings that it had when it was driven without motor oil running down a paved road until the farmer heard the engine knocking over the tire and wind noise.

While the cylinder seems to show some taper from but just the piston skirts it seems Liqui Moly Ceratec will NOT leave a ceramic finish on imperfect parts if the is not real friction/pressure between the moving parts of the engine.

We have picked up a very tight bottom end that includes the crank and connecting rod so when we get ready to 'quit' having fun tearing down and rebuilding we and put it back together with a good crank.

We have proved to ourselves that Liqui Moly Ceratec does as Liqui Moly states on their website. For an engine with a bad crank (rough and slightly under size) to run for 1,000,000 revolutions would be hard to explain with just motor oil in my mind. For the first hour it was a struggle for the engine and I expect that was when it was making a lot of metal.

Our control for the evaluation of Liqui Moly Ceratec is a 2001 with the same 325 Polaris ATV engine. We tore it down and put the same new rod bearings and brand of standard size rings using the same motor oil but the crankshaft was very good and the removed rod bearings showed no measurable wear after 13 years of a much harder life than of the 2002 until it blew the oil cooler hose.

The cylinder temps of the 2002 with the bad crank during the first hour of running hit 350F degrees the 2001 as our 'control' never went over 300F degrees but it only was idled for about one hour.

I guess we will put Ceratec in the 'control' ATV at some point but it will be after our Mini Ice Age. frown

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#3271174 - 02/05/14 10:34 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: GaleHawkins]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1281
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Cera-tec is the ultimate additive.
It works the same as mos2 however it uses nano particles of ceramic to create the barrier and the layer is so hard you need a belt sander to grind it off. I have 6 cans of it and will only use it in a newer engine because its so hard to find.
That is the greatest additive on earth. I love the stuff.
It's better than mos2 and lasts 10 times as long between treatments.


The test of Liqui Moly Ceratec was a success .... and we know the Ceratec does lay down a smooth glassy looking coat in places of imperfections on inspecting the cylinder and cam on tear down .... with Ceratec in the oil at the rate per Liqui Moly states on the can.

We have proved to ourselves that Liqui Moly Ceratec does as Liqui Moly states on their website. For an engine with a bad crank (rough and slightly under size) to run for 1,000,000 revolutions would be hard to explain with just motor oil in my mind. For the first hour it was a struggle for the engine and I expect that was when it was making a lot of metal.

Our control for the evaluation of Liqui Moly Ceratec is a 2001 with the same 325 Polaris ATV engine. We tore it down and put the same new rod bearings and brand of standard size rings using the same motor oil but the crankshaft was very good and the removed rod bearings showed no measurable wear after 13 years of a much harder life than of the 2002 until it blew the oil cooler hose.


Thank-you for the feedback. I use this stuff in all my vehicles and agree that it performs as advertised.
_________________________
2013 Subaru Outback Limited H6 AWD
2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#3271194 - 02/05/14 10:52 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7200
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Wow Gale,that's what I call real world data.
I had ceratec in my old sohc 4.6 that I decided to tear apart because it spit a plug. Engine had 200k or so,with at least 50 15 pound bottles of nitrous sprayed through it,some of it at a 175hp wet shot.
My stock cams felt like new. I had ceratec in for about 50k,then mos2 after ceratec at a half dose.
With 3.90 gears that mustang with the sohc 4.6 got 26mpg on the highway. In the city it got substantially less however I would enjoy myself from just about every stop light.
That car ran a 12.76 on drag radials and a 125hp shot. It was roasting the tires all the way down the track. It was a lot of fun.
I've got a 4v in that car now.
So you've gotten a lot further as far as data with tear downs. I won't have another one til I change out the chev's 5.3 in about 100k or so. It's still running like a dream so no point ripping it apart yet.
Thanks for the update Gale. It's nice to know for sure that liqui-moly is a stand up real company who sells products that perform as advertised.
They always have for me but anecdotes don't go far here.
Heck I tracked mileage in my charger for 10k miles and even my updates were questioned and I was called a liar,which really made no sense to me. It's not like I profit by selling any of their stuff.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3271226 - 02/05/14 11:19 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Offline


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 288
Loc: Murray KY USA
147_Grain you are welcome. I just learned about nano technology use in motor oil a few months ago and it caught me off guard concerning the advances that have been made.

Having this blown 325cc Polaris engine to use as a shop project for training the son and daughter (ages 16) on wrenching got me to thinking about how I could objectively see if nano technology use in engines was more than snake oil. Being in research of new info about new things I hit upon this project with Liqui Moly Ceratec that would require the tear down of an engine AFTER Ceratec use to have any real meaning to myself or others.

Since I have learned about Archoil. Have you read about this company. It seems they are just breaking into retail sales (not sure why) but have years of history in supplying nano technology for ships, locomotives and other very heavy equipment.

If you will read about Archoil AR9300 and share your thoughts as to if it may be better or worse than Ceratec I would appreciate it. I have purchased a small bottle of AR6200 fuel additive but due to winter storms and lack of time and money have not bought any of their motor oil additives like AR9100 or AR9300 to use/test.

In time I will try to work with the kids to pull together photos the best we can as how Ceratec actually did coat some parts with a hard smooth new surface. Folks we are not talking about adding metal to any degree. From reading it seems like a coating may only be a couple microns thick but that would mean no metal to metal contact of engine parts on cold starts or due to sheared motor oil.

Thanks again for your thoughts on our project and AR9300 from just reading about it.

It pains me to see how some multilevel marketing groups are abusing the marketing of nano technology in that they sound like snake oil salesman.

I have proved to myself Ceratec is not snake oil and would like to see what companies offer the most in the way of nano based technology to reduce engine friction.

Thanks Clevy for your post when I was writing mine. I too am bother by those who call everything new 'snake oil' because they are unable/unwilling to prove it one way or another.

I learned many years ago when a company with a track record like Liqui Moly or Archoil typically have evidence that their marketing statements can be supported in a court of law. smile

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#3271960 - 02/05/14 10:33 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21067
Loc: NY
Thanks for the write up Gale. I have a few observations/questions based on reading up on the product, although I haven't tried it. I'm wondering if it is a good idea once an engine is treated with it, not to introduce MoS2 and just add a small maint dose of Ceratec at each OCI after the initial full bottle treatment? Archoil which has a similar product recommends dosing at each OCI IIRC which is why I'm leaning toward a main't dose of Ceratec.

I also think that once an engine has been treated with MoS2 Ceratec won't be able to coat/plate the surfaces because MoS2 has already done its own coating/plating. In other words once you start with Ceratec stick with it, the same holds true for MoS2. This is just my opinion based on reading up on the product and nothing more.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops!


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#3272000 - 02/05/14 11:22 PM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
GaleHawkins Offline


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 288
Loc: Murray KY USA
demarpaint there is a post claiming to be from Liqui Moly tech that stated to use Ceratec then use MoS2 for the next 2-3 OCI then Ceratec again.

You may be on to something based on info from Archoil about their AR9300 that is made to sound like Ceratec on steroids. smile

Archoil suggest AR2300 a few 1000 miles before an oil change then new oil and add AR9300. It sounds like the cleaner the surface the better it attracts/holds both MOS2 and nano variations of Boron. Note in your post you are talking about AR9100 which is called a second generation nano boron additive.

You must compare Ceratec to AR9300 to be apples to apples because AR9300 does built a film that does NOT leave with an oil drain.
AR9100 leaves the engine shortly after an OCI.

Your logic to use Ceratec as labelled the first time then a fractional dose after each oil change does make sense to me. Should something start to fail the Ceratec would be there to start coating new bare metal.

I noticed the nice finish on both steel and aluminum bearing surfaces. Ceratec does stop building thickness at some point based on what I read yet it does wear off.

We really can only go the info passed out by the makers of this nano technology.

There is no way of proving the validity of its usage without tearing down an engine after 3K miles or what ever mileage the maker claims max film thickness occurs.

While our testing does not give a lot of info but now at least I know Ceratec does lay down a hard shiny film IF there is heat and pressure points.

I will look at the timing chain and see if it looks or feels different. One concern I have that could be an issue was the bearing contact with the rough crankshaft was making some metal and do not know if the oil filter was catching it all or not during our 11.5 run time.

Hope we will read more tear down results by others in 2014.

I am sold on the fact Ceratec works and would extend that to include other nano tech usage in lubrication do work to reduce friction. Archoil states the use of AR9100 (really big with the Ford 6.0, etc diesels) or AR9300 with double the OCI. That alone would cover its cost.

The below is from GEARSolutions:

"These two methods, mechanical and chemical reduction of friction, can also be combined. Cera Tec from LIQUI MOLY is such a product. Originally it was developed for use in motor oil in cars, but it is also beneficial in transmissions. Instead of molybdenum sulfide, it contains minute ceramic particles with a hexagonal boron nitride base. These not only increase performance, they also provide an additional advantage: They adhere so tenaciously to the metal, that they even withstand an oil change providing virtually the same performance in the new oil. The result is a highly effective wear protection additive with exceptional resistance to high temperature and pressure. Its use is not limited to engines, because it can also be used in compressors, pumps, and transmissions. The ceramic particles are smaller than 0.5 &#956;m, allowing them to pass easily through the oil filter."

"However, the use of LIQUI MOLY is not limited only to large transmissions. The vehicles used in the mines now also benefit from the extra protection provided by LIQUI MOLY, and this pays off. “We used to have to change the motor oil in our excavators and dumpers every 250 hours, and now only every 500 hours,” according to Graven. In the meantime, more than a dozen mines in South Africa benefit from the additional protection."

http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/detail/6177/protecting-massive-gears is the source.

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#3272088 - 02/06/14 05:13 AM Re: What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do? [Re: TechnoLoGs]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21067
Loc: NY
Hi Gale-The reason why I suggested sticking with either MoS2 or Ceratec was based on a string of emails I had with someone from Lubro Moly. Then reading here and chatting with my buddy Clevy we discovered the info to be a bit confusing. At any rate both Ceratec and Archoil's products interest me, and is worth further investigation. There was also talk of Ceramic products fouling spark plugs some time ago as well.

With regard to AR9300, is it even available in the USA to buy? Thanks-
_________________________
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