Why I won't go back to Redline 5w20 in the Duratec

[TallPaul]

2001 Ranger Duratec DOHC 16 Valve. Specs 5w20. I have Amsoil Signature Series 5w20 in the Ranger now and absolutely no plans to go back to Redline. The reason is not the Redline UOA results, but oil pressure.

I installed an oil pressure gauge in October 2012. I was suprised at how high the pressure ran cold. I documented on cold start at 30F in the morning, Cold pressure went right up to 95 psi, then wen I took off it increased with rpm to 110+.

I wondered if the Amsoil (or other 5w20) would lower the pressure since the Redline 5w20 has an HTHS viscosity of a 30 weight. Well the weather was running too warm to confirm. However, it got fairly cold over the weekend and this morning when I fired it up it was just over 30F. Here are the pressures now with Amsoil: 30F cold fireup: 85 psi. Taking off with increasing rpm: 95 psi.

I also noticed that the pressure came down towards normal faster. By the time I was ready to hit the freeway (1 mile) it was idling at 50-60 psi. Before it was still at 85. Idle pressure is basically unchanged.

I have to conclude that the Redline 5w20 is not a well balanced (physically) oil for my particular engine.

 

[NMBurb02]

That makes no sense to me. The lower the cold pressure the better the cold flow, right? Isn't that what you want? As long as your hot pressure is fine...

 

[KrisZ]

In both cases the by-pass valve was probably open, so there is little difference there and because the oil pump is a positive displacement one the difference in flow would be quite small.

However the shortened time for the oil pressure to stabilize is definitely a plus.

 

[CATERHAM]

Hi TallPaul.

Yes you're observations are correct. RL 5W-20 is one of RL's older formulations and there is nothing 20wt about the oil, not with a HTHSV of 3.3cP and it's very low 145 VI.
This oil is heavier than most 10W-30s.
Now if you want a heavy shear proof 10w-30 it's an excellent choice but it is totally unsuitable for any 20wt application.

BTW Amsoil ALM 5W-20 with it's HTHSV of 2.8cP and 153 VI is still a very heavy 20wt oil, heavier than a typical 5W-20 which has a HTHSV of 2.6cP. For example PP 5W-20 is very much lighter due to it's 169 VI and HTHSV of 2.6cP.

 

[CATERHAM]

I should add that RL's 0W-20 is much more suitable due to it's higher 166 VI and lower HTHSV which RL claims is 2.7cP although it may be actually higher than that.
After your run with ALM you may want to try RL 0W-20.
I for one would be interested to see if it is actually any lighter than ALM 5W-20.

 

[Swissdieselfan]

I presume this is with the same type of OEM oil filter in use??

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
In both cases the by-pass valve was probably open, so there is little difference there and because the oil pump is a positive displacement one the difference in flow would be quite small.

Of course the higher the pressure (back pressure) when bypass is open, the less oil goes to the engine--not good in the more extreme case. One has to wonder if the high metals in my Redline UOA were partly due to poorer lubrication because of the overly high pressure.


Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes you're observations are correct. RL 5W-20 is one of RL's older formulations and there is nothing 20wt about the oil, not with a HTHSV of 3.3cP and it's very low 145 VI.
I recall the RL 5w20 being HTHS 3.3 when I bought it, but just went to their site and, unless I mis-read it, they are showing 3.0 HTHS for the RL 5w20!


Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I should add that RL's 0W-20 is much more suitable due to it's higher 166 VI and lower HTHSV which RL claims is 2.7cP although it may be actually higher than that.
After your run with ALM you may want to try RL 0W-20.
I for one would be interested to see if it is actually any lighter than ALM 5W-20.
Certainly an option. Didn't go that way first because I thought the HTHS was too l ow. I plain and simple was scared of 5w20 so wanted overly robust. But the fact is, I ought to do just fine with my favorite brand 5-20: Maxlife!

So we'll do the Amsoil for now and I have one more load. Thinking to change out at 6000 or 7000 then UOA the second batch at 6000.

Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan
I presume this is with the same type of OEM oil filter in use??
Used K&N filters on both Redline runs. Am running a Wix for the Amsoil run.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Oil pump bypass valve sticking? - this OP seems way too high for a stocker. I miss my 11 charcoal ranger 5M 2wd but ford let me down (again ) with that mazda 2.3L DOHC made in spain incorrectly. What a potentially great truck - just like the CV and GM - cars perfected JUST before they were laid to rest prematurely. That truck had the most well sorted ASC of anything ive driven - You might think Jacky Icx was in the CPU! Just floor it and steer and the truck went quickly where you pointed it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Oil pump bypass valve sticking? - this OP seems way too high for a stocker.


IIRC, the stock pressure for a Modular is 150psi. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Duratec is 100+.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Really. Insane! and HP chewers to boot. Those engines would NEED thin oil, then.
Time for me to retire.

 

[tudorart]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I should add that RL's 0W-20 is much more suitable due to it's higher 166 VI and lower HTHSV which RL claims is 2.7cP although it may be actually higher than that.
After your run with ALM you may want to try RL 0W-20.
I for one would be interested to see if it is actually any lighter than ALM 5W-20.

I posted the recent changes here http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3000906&#Post3000906

0W20 is now a 2.9 HTHS/VI 172 and the 5W20 is a 3.0/147...still very very thick due to low VI
It'd be nice to have a pressure reading on this car with any of the two. Amsoil 5W20 may be in between.

 

[OVERKILL]

The replacement oil pump is a Melling M212 if anybody cares to find out its bypass pressure. Summit doesn't list it.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Oil pump bypass valve sticking? - this OP seems way too high for a stocker.


IIRC, the stock pressure for a Modular is 150psi. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Duratec is 100+.


Ok now that I calmed down, 150 psig at WHAT RPM and what temp? Better be below freezing and over 3000 rpm

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Really. Insane! and HP chewers to boot. Those engines would NEED thin oil, then.
Time for me to retire.


It's a gyrator pump at least, LOL! (on the Modular). Though I might be off my rocker and it is lower than that. I just remember that number being mentioned at one point, so don't take it as an absolute, LOL!

 

[OVERKILL]

I just quickly looked it up and the relief on the 3V is 60 or 75PSI depending on the pump.

Still trying to find the # for the M227, which was the DOHC 4V pump (Termi).

 

[MiKe3o]

what engine? i have seen 3.0 4v come in with the oil filter blow up like a balloon

 

[TallPaul]

I searched the web like a maniac for days and days and called around, even to Ford dealerships. Could not get one bit of info on the bypass pressure. If it is 75, then it will bleed off at much higher pressure if oil is thick enough.

It seems this Ranger's 2.3L 16-valve chain-driven DOHC with solid lifters is generally half of a 4.6 modular 32 valve engine.

Rev limiter seems to be at or just above 6000 rpm from my one time experinece apparently hitting it.

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Really. Insane! and HP chewers to boot. Those engines would NEED thin oil, then.
Time for me to retire.


It's amazing to me an old wore out Duratec even has oil pressure, much less that high.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
It's amazing to me an old wore out Duratec even has oil pressure, much less that high.
If you are referring to my Duratec, its debut in the Ranger was mid 2001 model year. It is a great engine with plenty of power. Made to go a 150,000 mile engine life on the ice hardened solid lifters. Besides I only have 82,000 miles on it.