Subarus - Automatic vs Manual

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Which do you prefer? I haven't seen many MT in OB or Foresters.

There is an interesting article explaining the differences between the differen AWD systems Subaru uses.

Quote:
Which is Better?

Now that brings us to the next point of debate as to which one is better?

So here's an excerpt from an article I found:

(Source: http://www.cars.com/carsapp/cars/?sr...all_wheel.tmpl)

"Simpler AWD systems “bias” the power to the front or the rear in this way and react to slippage when it occurs. Subaru's “continuous” AWD system is this type. More advanced systems are designed to be proactive rather than reactive. For example, Subaru’s “active” AWD is claimed to anticipate and prevent slippage for a seamless driving experience. Audi's quattro and related Volkswagen 4MOTION AWD systems route power based on vehicle dynamics: Rear tires have greater grip during acceleration, so during that action the rear wheels receive more of the engine’s power. In turns, the outside front wheel has the most grip and thus gets the most power, followed by both rear wheels.

With advanced AWD like this available on cars such as the Porsche 911 Carrera 4, it’s clear that four driven wheels are no longer the province of high-ridin’ mud buggies. For surefooted handling during acceleration — even on bone-dry roads — AWD is tough to beat."

As per the author of this article the Continuous AWD system found on Subarus with 5MT and 6MT is a simpler system in that it is more reactive than proactive. Whereas the Active AWD systems (with Variable Transfer Clutch) found on 4EAT Subarus and the VTD (which is an advanced Active AWD system) found on 5EAT Subarus are proactive in predicting wheel slippage conditions and hence react faster. But obviously the Continuous AWD systems have the advantages of being less complex and hence less prone to failures and low repair costs.


So again which system is the best? I would say the order could be as follows:
1. DCCD with Front and Rear LSDs - WRX Sti
2. VTD - 4EAT on WRX and 5EAT on Outback XT, Outback 3.0R and Legacy GT
3. Active AWD with Rear LSD: 4EAT on Outback 2.5i
4. Tie. Depends on what you need more? proactive AWD system or the Rear LSD (if offroading)
• Active AWD without Rear LSD: 4EAT on Impreza 2.5i, Legacy 2.5i and Legacy 2.5i Ltd
• Continuous AWD with Rear LSD: 5MT on WRX, Legacy GT, Outback 2.5i, Outback XT and 6MT on spec.B
5. Continuous AWD without Rear LSD: 5MT on Impreza 2.5i and Legacy 2.5i

Subaru saves its best AWD system for the Impreza WRX Sti which has the DCCD system with front and rear LSDs.

I wasnt aware that the Outback 2.5i has the Rear LSD. Thats an advantage over the Legacy 2.5i.
 
The manual is better if you enjoy driving a stick, and would make the most of an NA Subaru's modest power as well as help to mitigate the beast's thirst.
The automatic is slow shifting and doesn't seem to have particularly well thought out ratios.
The old four speed autobox is noted for long life, though.
I don't think you'd see much difference in the performance of the AWD system.
Contrary to what the quoted article implies, you'd be hard pressed to spin a tire on snow with either the manual or the automatic in any Subaru I've driven.
The AWD is perfectly transparent, in that it simply works without your really noticing it.
 
I test drove both manual & automatic (CVT) in a 2012 Outback when we were looking at larger vehicles for our growing family.

Subaru made a perfect market for the CVT by fitting an absolutely abysmal manual transmission to the engine. Zero clutch feel, extremely rev-happy engine, no torque at low RPMs, rubbery long-throw shifter, engine holds high revs during shifts & poor gear spacing made for a very jerky, clutch stench riddled test drive.

I've driven manuals exclusively for over 15 years and this was the only automatic I would consider even though a manual was available in the same model.

And yet another reason why we went for the Mazda 5 with the 6-speed manual.
56.gif
 
If you get any of the turbo-charged variants (IE XT) you can and will certainly spin wheels in the snow/rain/[censored] even dry if you drop the clutch.

The most fun you'll have in a Subaru is with a MT & a turbocharger.

I could get my XT to oversteer on command thanks to the rear LSD, I can kinda get the current one to do the same.
 
Originally Posted By: scurvy


Subaru made a perfect market for the CVT by fitting an absolutely abysmal manual transmission to the engine. Zero clutch feel, extremely rev-happy engine, no torque at low RPMs, rubbery long-throw shifter, engine holds high revs during shifts & poor gear spacing made for a very jerky, clutch stench riddled test drive.



Indeed...

My 2011 Outback 2.5i was a 6spd manual. It was easily the most difficult to drive manual transmission car I've ever owned. Even after driving it for 18 months,it was still difficult to drive well.
 
I've got 5spd manual trans in both the LGT and forester. Both have STS and bushing upgrades. Subaru does many things very well, but transmissions are not their strong point. You'd think they would get some outside help from someone to change things for the better. Unfortunately, they have turned to the CVT to keep up with cafe standards and competition.

I just got C&D at the office and they said the CVT was a "deal breaker" on the new forester. 2.5i touring price as tested $33,220!
 
I've got a WRX with the 5MT and "short throw" shifter (the throws are actually still pretty long and the shift knob height is not changed from original, which I like) and I like the transmission just fine. I've heard that without the STS the shifter is pretty rubbery and devoid of good feel, but with the kit it's got a good mechanical feeling without being too notchy. It's plenty easy to shift, although it can be a pain to downshift into 2nd at times without rev-matching or double clutching. It's got a rod linkage rather than cable, which I'm partial to because I like being able to feel the driveline vibration through the shifter. Clutch is fine too.

All in all the shifter and clutch both feel better (more mechanical and smoother gates) and are easier to drive than the 2007 Civic the car replaced.


I'm also partial to the AWD system in the MT cars because I like the mechanical simplicity of it. However I don't see snow, so any more advanced systems aimed at maintaining traction on slippery surfaces aren't really important to my use cases.
 
I think the best description of the average subaru shifter I ever read was "It feels slightly better than a 2x4 in a bucket of sand" or something like that...
 
Originally Posted By: rationull
I've got a WRX with the 5MT and "short throw" shifter (the throws are actually still pretty long and the shift knob height is not changed from original, which I like) and I like the transmission just fine.
...
Clutch is fine too.


Buddy of mine at work has a WRX, which he let me drive after bemoaning the test drive with a manual transmission Outback. His felt completely normal to me and entirely unlike the wagon we drove.

This is not to say the Mazda isn't without its 'faults' - it has much less clutch feel than the VWs we were used to - but it only took us a couple drives to get accustomed to its clutch & shifter feel.
 
Originally Posted By: buster

Which do you prefer? I haven't seen many MT in OB or Foresters.



I guess it would depend on which specific engine it's coupled to. The 2.5i EJ253 with 6spd manual is like driving a dump truck. Not sure how the 6spd is with the new FB25 series 2.5's.

The turbo models are smoother from what I've read (never driven one).

The 4EAT shifts 1980's greyhound bus style, but they go forever.

I enjoy my 2012 Legy w/ the 2.5i EJ and CVT trans, but I get why they're not for everyone. I get some decent MPGs with mine.
 
Subaru manuals are ropey feeling.

That's the best way I can describe it. Like the shifter is connected to the transmission by sisal rope.

The shifter was the least of the problems with the Baja I drove. The steering felt as disconnected as the shifter.

Later models are better steering and handling. But that shifter remains. It's only slightly better than a '90s Kia Sephia. It's kind of a letdown on those cars. I'm sure that they are reliable, but the shifters feel bad.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Subaru manuals are ropey feeling.

That's the best way I can describe it. Like the shifter is connected to the transmission by sisal rope.



That is true!

It's odd too, because AFAIK, the shifter on Subarus come right out of the transmission case like a RWD vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Subaru manuals are ropey feeling.

That's the best way I can describe it. Like the shifter is connected to the transmission by sisal rope.



That is true!

It's odd too, because AFAIK, the shifter on Subarus come right out of the transmission case like a RWD vehicle.



Note quite, IIRC -- I think most or all of them have hang off the back of the trans and connect via a linkage. The 5 speed in the WRX does at least. I have heard that the new non-STi 6 speed actually uses a cable linkage unlike the old 5 speed which used rods. The STi's is a different transmission entirely and I'd guess it uses a rod linkage but I'm not sure.
 
You are correct Sir.

I just did a quick look online and it looks like they're all a linkage connection from shifter to trans. That part of the trans case doesn't quite make it to that part of the cabin.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: gr8gatzby
The automatic CVT(2013) was a PITA for me.


that's any cvt


untrue. Nissan CVTs are a marvel of engineering and flow like butter.

Subaru CVTs flow like molasses in the arctic circle.
 
From the research I've been doing lately, the CVT is winning over a lot of pro manual people. The Crosstrek is apparenlty much better with the CVT than 5spd Manual.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
From the research I've been doing lately, the CVT is winning over a lot of pro manual people. The Crosstrek is apparenlty much better with the CVT than 5spd Manual.


i've heard lots of complaints about the manuals in late model subaru's, which is unfortunate. after driving a 2012 outback CVT for 1.5 years, i also dislike it quite a bit. the alternative is to just not buy one
smile.gif
 
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