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#2869401 - 01/13/13 04:33 PM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 19081
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I don't recall if there was a difference in wear either, QP. I had glanced at the latest ACEA updates, but didn't pay close enough attention to that. And yep, the tool isn't updated yet, so you may have to do it the hard way and compare the written specs.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2870051 - 01/14/13 04:46 AM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Garak]
Rollins Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 117
Loc: Europe
Lubrizol Relative Performace Tools data concerning SA levels of MB 229.5 are not correct. Under y.2009 and y. 2012 SA "1 to 1.5wt.%" should be :

"0,8 to 1,5wt.%."for 2009 and
"1.0 to 1.6wt.%" for 2012.

This makes your question even more puzzling,Quattro Pete...

Proofs:

Lubricant Handbook

Mercedes Oil Specifications v.2012


As of 2012, MB changed SA requirement to "1.0 to 1.6wt.%" and minimum 10mgKOH/g TBN.Some om646 pass/fail wear limits changed too(more severe) in 2012(cam wear; engine sludge).

Acc.to Afton's document, in 2009 the min. 8mgKOH/g requirement was still valid. ACEA raised it to min.10mgKOH/g for A3/B4 oils in 2010 Oil Sequences.




ACEA:
Quote:
"The YEAR numbers for ACEA Sequence is intended only for industry use and indicates the year of implementation of that severity level for the particular category. "


If we look at ACEA schedule , oils that had been certified against ACEA 2004 sequences were allowed for marketing up until 31st of December 2009! This is quite a long period...meanwhile some major changes were implemented concerning ACEA 2008 categories ! And during the whole 2009, oils certified against 3 different sequences(2004;2007 and 2008) might have been on the shelves !
On the other hand,some OEM approval categories are quite short-termed( 2years for BMW and Porsche, 3 years for VW and "5 years at the latest" for MB).


GPN oil Synt 5w-40

Ineo MC3 229.51


Quartz 9000 0w-30 229.5

These are interesting too- three different approvals for an oil using one specific "recipe"---Infineum's IME 0505148-A ?
Posrche A40 Approval
BMW LL-04 Approval
MB 229.51 Approval

229.52 is coming...


Edited by Rollins (01/14/13 04:58 AM)

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#2870587 - 01/14/13 01:45 PM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Rollins]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 19081
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I'm not sure how it is in Europe, but here, we have very few oils that rely on ACEA specs alone, without having a BMW, Benz, and/or VW/Audi spec to go along with them. Some of the oil companies that do are forthright enough to actually print the year of the ACEA specification they claim, too.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 51358
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2870715 - 01/14/13 03:25 PM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Quattro Pete]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1729
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Most of the time there will be a date code, two digits, if the oil spec has been updated.

But even if you do decipher the date code, you still can't be sure which spec version they were complying with at that time.


Actually.you can. The ACEA has specific guidance with regards to which spec can be claimed within X-time. It's stated in their oil test sequences. IIRC
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#2870736 - 01/14/13 03:40 PM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: BMWTurboDzl]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 31984
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
But even if you do decipher the date code, you still can't be sure which spec version they were complying with at that time.


Actually.you can. The ACEA has specific guidance with regards to which spec can be claimed within X-time. It's stated in their oil test sequences. IIRC

Yeah, but did you read what Rollins wrote above?

Quote:
If we look at ACEA schedule , oils that had been certified against ACEA 2004 sequences were allowed for marketing up until 31st of December 2009! This is quite a long period...meanwhile some major changes were implemented concerning ACEA 2008 categories ! And during the whole 2009, oils certified against 3 different sequences(2004;2007 and 2008) might have been on the shelves !
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'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#2870747 - 01/14/13 03:46 PM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Quattro Pete]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1729
Loc: Atlanta,GA
229.52??? Is that the 20w oils? I'm waiting on BMW to update their ll04
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Prev
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#2872777 - 01/16/13 09:06 AM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Quattro Pete]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1729
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
But even if you do decipher the date code, you still can't be sure which spec version they were complying with at that time.


Actually.you can. The ACEA has specific guidance with regards to which spec can be claimed within X-time. It's stated in their oil test sequences. IIRC

Yeah, but did you read what Rollins wrote above?

Quote:
If we look at ACEA schedule , oils that had been certified against ACEA 2004 sequences were allowed for marketing up until 31st of December 2009! This is quite a long period...meanwhile some major changes were implemented concerning ACEA 2008 categories ! And during the whole 2009, oils certified against 3 different sequences(2004;2007 and 2008) might have been on the shelves !



Ya. They've tightened up the dates with 2012. Now only 08' & '10 are on shelves. Pre-2010 should be gone from shelves within 6 months (June 2013). What is funny is that claims are self-certified by oil marketeers.


Edited by BMWTurboDzl (01/16/13 09:10 AM)
_________________________
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Prev
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#2872808 - 01/16/13 09:32 AM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 31984
Loc: Great Lakes
Then you have oils like Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-40 where its current version only claims to meet ACEA 2004. Well, at least they're honest. smile
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'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#2940647 - 03/16/13 02:24 PM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Quattro Pete]
EddieCairns Offline


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 145
Loc: Scotland
Castrol in the UK has reformulated the Magnatec oils range to tie in with ACEA 2010 since mid 2012.

With 2012 only being valid from December 2012 there will be virtually no ACEA 2012 oils available at retail for a few months.

eddie

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#2996018 - 05/08/13 05:53 AM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: BMWTurboDzl]
avss1 Offline


Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 77
Loc: Russia
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
229.52??? Is that the 20w oils?

I think these are 0w-30&5W-30 oils developed for the First Fill 2-3 years ago by Fuchs, Mobil, Petronas.
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2011 Toyota Highlander, 3,5L

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#3401981 - 06/20/14 06:06 AM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Quattro Pete]
Nebroch Offline


Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 380
Loc: Finlandistan
Which oil would you select from these:

- Mobil X1 3000 5W-40 229.3
- Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 229.5

I have used X1 for years, but Helix would be cheaper and give some fuel economy benefit. Is there any real downsides in 229.5 oil?


Edited by Nebroch (06/20/14 06:07 AM)

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#3402132 - 06/20/14 10:27 AM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: Nebroch]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 2823
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Which oil would you select from these:

- Mobil X1 3000 5W-40 229.3
- Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 229.5

I have used X1 for years, but Helix would be cheaper and give some fuel economy benefit. Is there any real downsides in 229.5 oil?

Nope, it is more stringent requirement with NOACK below 10%.
Ultra is better oil here.
_________________________
13' BMW X5 35d (Valvoline 5W40 MST+ OEM filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+OEM filter)

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#3402196 - 06/20/14 11:54 AM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: BMWTurboDzl]
lim Offline


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 39
Loc: Hampshire
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
229.52??? Is that the 20w oils? I'm waiting on BMW to update their ll04


M-B 229.52 is a xW-30 formulation for use with engines with after-treatment and using bio-fuels. There are not many options on the approved list.
The latest BMW engine oil specification is LL-14 FE+ this is made only by Fuchs at present and is for particular engines.

Regards, lim

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#3402277 - 06/20/14 01:40 PM Re: Updated MB 229.5 spec? [Re: edyvw]
Nebroch Offline


Registered: 05/16/13
Posts: 380
Loc: Finlandistan
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Nope, it is more stringent requirement with NOACK below 10%.
Ultra is better oil here.


Thanks, I have to try that.

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