Uh-Oh

[The Critic]

Link

Person had a severe sludge problem; ran auto-rx but not much obvious improvement. UOA prior to the treatment yielded no antifreeze or water.

If I'm not mistaken, the person used OEM filters and BMW 5W30 (GrpIII syn) for the clean/rinse phases.

The person has more RX and plans to retry. I told them that they should try using a mineral 15W40 this time to rule out any reaction that may have occured with syn oil and RX.

Frank?

 

[Bio-T]

Mike,

This one is discussed on the Auto-Rx Forum. Click on the link, 3 pages on this topic.


BMW

 

[The Critic]

Sorry, I rarely visit the Auto-RX forum.

 

[Volvohead]

The lower end of that engine was just brutal. It's going to take more than two treatments on that one.

 

[Shaman]

Pics like those make me question just how powerful ARX really is. Maybe I can understand under the valve cover looking bad, but two treatments and the pan is still crapped up.

 

[Rich21]

ARX is plenty powerful. There is probably 7 or more filter fulls of sludge in that motor. Trying to clean this volume of crud in short order while you drive would be disasterous.

 

[Shaman]

Then I think that Frank needs to change his stance on 2 treatments will get rid of anything, and after a certain point, ARX'ing starts to get too expensive, and other methods should be looked into.

Lets say he's got 7 filters full, that means 4 cycles, or another $200 in ARX alone. So that would be $300 in ARX plus oil and filter. Let's say $2 for the filter and $1 a qt. 8.5 qts of oil a pop, so $10.50 times 2 per cycle. See where this is going. At that point, he is in the manual cleaning pricerange. If I would have seen that oil pan, I would have soaked it in kerosene overnight, cleaned it, buttoned the car back up, and sold it.

[ January 25, 2006, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Shaman ]

 

[shavenstringer]

If the person used a group III syn then they didnt follow the Auto-RX instuctions. Frank strongly recommends using dino oil for the rinse phase. Synthetics will not flush the sludge from the engine.

 

[Rich21]

I don't think than anyone ever said that 2 treatments will get rid of anything. Nobody thought that Aarons Nissan motor would clean up with ARX. That Beamer has massive sludge. Look at the oil pick up area. The product is working. Regarding it getting too expensive, the vitals are getting fresh lubrication, motor running well while cleaning on the fly.

 

[Frank]

Even if your math is correct manual cleaning will let sludge start building right back up. Auto-Rx application won't. 2 treatments is fine for 98% of all sludge motors in unusual cases Auto-Rx can adjust ratio's and applications and motors like this one can be brought back into operation. Our polcy would to max discount for buyer in this situation.

We guarantee our perfromance and we honor that as people know, we expect the buyer to go by the honor principle when this happens there is no failure.

 

[vairox]

don't question the efficacy of auto-rx, that just won't be tolerated.

 

[Shaman]

I think it's obvious from his Pre ARX filter that the sludge was in fact coming out, hence the reason that he started worrrying in the first place. Dyson testing showed no problems the 4 times that he sent the oil for anaylsis, so unless there was something that wasn't showing up in the analysis, I don't think that the problem that was had is(was) still around

Timeline

Buy car
Pull filter at his second oil change (car's third)
Strong Expletive asserted!
Look under cap
Starts ARX
Finishs ARX
Pulls oil pan

Vairox, I hope your kidding.

I am not saying that ARX doesn't work, but in this case, 2 treatments left alot on the table. I think that in this case that ARX should have come after a head and oil pan clean, some kerosene or other strong solvent work with parts disassembled, then reassembled and ARX'ed to get the remainder.

 

[Terry]

Auto-RX cleans plenty SAFE AND GENTLY so clean oil filters are needed. Frank can't ne responsible for every application in the universe. Keep cleaning with fresh oil filters to trap the crap.

Terry

 

[shavenstringer]

once again (how many times do we have to go over this?)If the owner had used dino oil for the rinse phase it would have rinsed out most if not all of the sludge. Synthetic oil has a polarizing effect and prevents the sludge from being rinsed away. If this is the case then he needs to start the rinse phase over again with a dino oil.

 

[Fastride95]

Even though I'm not pro Auto-Rx I do believe the product works. My only issue in the past was that people expound it's use for just about everything.

It's just like anything in life. However good a product you can't expect it to work 100% of the time for every possible situation. It's understandable that the instructions on the website and the bottle claim 2 cycles will clean the engine because they MUST establish a baseline for their product.

In this case, the engine is extremely sludged and anyone with common sense can see that two measly oil filters will not be able to collect the volume of crud built up in that engine. It obviously will require more frequent filter changes and possible up to 4 full cycles of Auto-RX. Claiming that Auto-RX is making false claims because it failed to clean this engine in 2 treatments simply defies common sense. From what I understand the owner used synthetic oil for the rinse as well? Grp 3 or otherwise, it still falls outside the instructions which I find to be clear and very specific.

Let's assume this vehicle requires six full treatments (clean and rinse) of Auto-RX before the engine is respectably clean and that the total price rivals that of a manual cleaning (doubtful if you expect a GOOD manual cleaning). Isn't that worth it compared to a new engine or having someone crack open the block to use harsh chemical cleaners to clean it all up?

I hate having the engine opened unless absolutely necessary. If I had to deal with an engine sludged this badly, but still operational, I'd be tickled pink that a product like Auto-RX is available to clear that up over time even if the cost ran up in the 200s. Beats paying for a used engine with an unknown history or having someone open it up and hit ya with "Oh sir, we also need to charge you 150.00 more for the new seals we forgot to mention".

 

[Rich21]

Not to mention the downtime of the vehicle for tear down and hand cleaning.

I still stand by that the use of a quick solvent flush has a high likelyhood of damaging this motor from passage cloggs,ect. Without the wrench, ARX is the best offense.

 

[Ken2]

Any cleaner can only remove a certain amount of stuff before its ability to pick up stuff is "full." This is the same for dishwater, solvent, whatever. After that, you need new cleaner. This is the reason for two, or maybe three Auto-Rx cleanings and rinsings.


Ken

 

[Volvohead]

I love some of the logic on this board.

"after a certain point, ARX'ing starts to get too expensive . . . or another $200 in ARX alone."

Ever price out a BMW long block, installed?

There is no way to manually desludge that engine safely short of complete disassembly.

 

[Shaman]

YOu missed the point I was trying to make.

At what point does it become time to find a different method of cleaning an engine? I understand that BMW stuff is expensive, but he pulled the pan and a VC. Manual cleaning of those areas are now considered free reign to be manually cleaned, and leave ARX to clean the rest.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

I read ketchups post on bimmerfest about a year ago when he bought the car. He knew it had a sludge problem when he bought it, but decided to "just run synthetic" and see how it goes. All this despite 5 pages telling him to get it cleaned. No sympathy here.