Don't change ATF if its black?

[Rocko62580]

Take a look at this video posted about changing fluid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfozabdprmQ

If you don't have time to watch it, basically the guy insists that you shouldn't change your fluid if it's not red anymore. We have a Toyota Rav-4 that has 120,000 miles on it and the fluid has never been changed. There is plently of fluid in there, but it is basically the color of motor oil. Should we just leave the fluid in, or change it? The transmission hasn't had any problems except for some whining noises and shaking at times. Thoughts?

 

[SLCraig]

Ironically I know people in both camps with no problems.
My old boss claimed he never changed the fluid on his 96 Accord with over 400KM on the clock when he sold it.

I myself would change the fluid in your Rav, without even thinking about it. I've done so on older trans like that and have never had any issues replacing old original fluid.

Just use whats spec'd and I can't see there being a problem.

 

[tig1]

Change it. Spent ATF is one of the main reasons causing trans failure.

 

[trooper001]

Change it. Just like any automotive oil, the additives pack and friction modifiers deplete in service. Would you not change the engine oil if it had turned black? Logic on that video is flawed, in my opinion.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

The general consensus is to do a dump and fill, not a full mechanical flush since some high-mileage auto trannies don't react well to 100% new fluid for whatever reason.

 

[Kruse]

Even though I've seen a couple of tranny hiccups after neglected oil has been changed on perfectly good working vehicles, my attitude is that old, neglected fluid needs to get out of there.

 

[Nate1979]

Drain and fill.

 

[eljefino]

Change it. I brought a tired trans back to life. Its filter was plugged with clutch silt (the stuff allegedly keeping friction where it needs to be) and the thing wasn't making enough line pressure to apply the clutches so they were shredding at an accellerated rate.

Put in a new modulator (its only issue) to correct/bump up line pressure, new filter, new fluid, back to life.

91 olds ciera, 4T60.

 

[GreeCguy]

Just did my Taurus a couple of months back - 155,000 miles and the tranny fluid came out the color of coffee that's been boiled on the stove in an old cast iron pot. Runs better now than it has in years, (part of that I attribute to my unholy mixture of Lubegard, Lucas and Seafoam transmission fix - but then that's another story).

 

[loyd]

So much for paraphrasing, what he said was: If your tranny fluid is black, GET YOUR TRANSMISSION EVALUATED BY AN EXPERT!

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: Rocko62580
The transmission hasn't had any problems except for some whining noises and shaking at times. Thoughts?


Those are problems because they are symptoms of failure. You are probably too late and will have to rebuild that trans. But I would try introducing new fluid slowly by doing a simple drain/fill of the trans fluid (3-4 quarts) and letting it mix in with the old fluid. If your trans doesn't completely fail then do it again after 500 miles and so on until you have done 4 drain fills.

BTW, I do a complete ATF exchange every 50,000 miles with all of my vehicles. They still shift like new at 150-200k.

 

[threeputtpar]

What year Rav4 are we talking about? I know one person that owned a mid 2000s one, and one day at work she asked me to check out its transmission because it was bucking on acceleration from a stop. Turns out that there's a secret recall on those transmissions for something or another and she ended up getting a free one installed later that week. The local dealer had 3 on their shelf, which tells me that it's a major problem.

You may want to stop by your dealer and inquire. I don't have a link to the info I found for her, as that was at my last job and it's on my old computer.

Edit: Huge thread on Rav4world about it. Seems it's the 2001-2003 ones that had all the problems. Her's was a 2002 and it was fixed in 2011, well beyond the 96 months and she was way over the 80k mileage. The dealer never questioned about replacing the ECU and the trans, so that tells me that it's double secret that the time and mileage means nothing.

http://www.rav4world.com/forums/88-4-2-f...-2003-rav4.html

 

[MolaKule]

Ignorance knows no bounds.

 

[Donald]

There is never a reason to not change the ATF unless its your shop and do not want to be liable for something going wrong.

The scenario is:
1) Drivers forgets about the transmission for 150K mikes
2) Transmission starts to act up
3) Driver feels it needs a flush to get it back to right
4) Shop does a flush
5) Transmission fails due to #2, driver blames shop for the problem.

If the shop refuses to do the flush, then the driver will say "the heck with you if you do not want my business", if they do the flush and something happens, they are now in a defensive posture trying to tell the driver it was on its way out before they did the flush. If they do the flush and all is OK, they have made what $50 after the cost of the ATF and filter?

 

[zzyzzx]

I would change it out several times over the summer, about a month apart. I'm referring to the drain and fill type of change. If no drain plug, I would use a siphon to get it out and change the filter on the last change.

Yes, I have done this to more than one car and it worked out just fine.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
There is never a reason to not change the ATF unless its your shop and do not want to be liable for something going wrong.



Sure, the shop can refuse to do the work, OR the shop can do the work but provide a written statement that the condition of the fluid and lack of proper maintenance may cause other problems and changing out the fluid may not fix any future problems that may occur.

The mechanic that does my heavy work writes a short summary on every piece of work he does as a CYA against ignorant, litigious people.

 

[KrisZ]

I would not change it! I would wait for the ATF to become tar-like substance, change the ATF then, wait for the transmission to granade and come beck to this thread as a living proof that ATF should not be changed.

 

[jrustles]

Aisin transmission? I'd change it.
You can probably get another 200K out of it after that TBH.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I would not change it! I would wait for the ATF to become tar-like substance, change the ATF then, wait for the transmission to granade and come beck to this thread as a living proof that ATF should not be changed.

 

[RF Overlord]

Rocko, does your RAV use T-IV or WS?

I had this same question about my niece's Ford Fusion that uses T-IV and was told that T-IV turns quite dark in normal use, so that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. I did the first double drain & fill on her car at 30k and a second one at 63k and the fluid does come out darker than I'm used to with my cars.

All that aside, I would absolutely change it. If the transmission fails soon after a fluid change, then it was on its way out anyway and would have failed regardless. Leaving depleted, oxidized, and/or contaminated fluid is a sure way to hasten its demise.