Militec-1

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The 1950's? People on this board make a big deal about the differences in oil formulation from year to year. Chemistry has come a long way in 5 decades and I see no reason why improvements can't be made.

Mola and others have stated that the new gear oils have the Sulfer and Phos "locked up" and are no longer a concern for corrosion. This is pretty much accepted as gospel. I'm not seeing why is it so hard to believe that the chlorine cannot also be "locked up" (i.e. no loose Cl floating around).

I have just started to use MT10, a chlorinated additive, so I have no results so far (soon to have a UOA) in my truck. I have, however, been using this companies' (Muscle Products Corp.) fully formulated stand alone products for more than a year and have yet to see a spec of rust on any of the applications (garage door/opener, door/hood hinges, latches, firearms, etc).

In fact, this product has a similar "micro-polishing" (asperity roll-out) effect as Royal Purple. The screw on the garage opener is now very shiny and operates MUCH smoother than when it had the original black goop that was on it.

They offer a Technical Article (PDF) that gives at least a basic idea of how it works.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Tempest:
The 1950's? People on this board make a big deal about the differences in oil formulation from year to year. Chemistry has come a long way in 5 decades and I see no reason why improvements can't be made.

Mola and others have stated that the new gear oils have the Sulfer and Phos "locked up" and are no longer a concern for corrosion. This is pretty much accepted as gospel. I'm not seeing why is it so hard to believe that the chlorine cannot also be "locked up" (i.e. no loose Cl floating around).

I have just started to use MT10, a chlorinated additive, so I have no results so far (soon to have a UOA) in my truck. I have, however, been using this companies' (Muscle Products Corp.) fully formulated stand alone products for more than a year and have yet to see a spec of rust on any of the applications (garage door/opener, door/hood hinges, latches, firearms, etc).

In fact, this product has a similar "micro-polishing" (asperity roll-out) effect as Royal Purple. The screw on the garage opener is now very shiny and operates MUCH smoother than when it had the original black goop that was on it.

They offer a Technical Article (PDF) that gives at least a basic idea of how it works.


I would have to agree with tempest. Even though I have a very limited knowledge of chemistry, I do understand some elemental concepts such as the binding of chemical components together to make them stable that otherwise seperate would be corrosive or have some other negative properties.
As I said before, I did speak with the owner of Militec, and while I realize that people can and do lie, I felt he was being upfront with me. He specifically told me that Militec does have molecularly stable chlorinated elements in the formula, but as has been proven over and over again, many metal products have had this stuff applied including by me, and I have never seen any rust ocurr to the objects whether they be guns, bikes, sailboat parts etc.

PS. It isn't my intention to sound like a know it all, so if that has happened, I apologize. Thanks.
 
"""rust ocurr to the objects whether they be guns, bikes, sailboat parts etc.""

Maybe true BUT heat any of those to 250F and put outside over night and see what you get.

The only reason it works OK is it is never exsposed to high heat so I guess I will eat my words about a room temp lube but not for a PCMO or gear box.

I make cutting oils that are "chlorinated hydrocarbons have been basically nuetralized through a chemical process." and are NON corrosive and they sell for about $8 gallon what does Miltec cost?

What Miltec, Power UP and duralube have done (and more power to them)is to bring to the auto home tinkerer world a lube additive concept that has great AW/EP anti scuff properties that has been used in metalworking, industrial and EMD diesels since they made dirt.

But no matter the chlorine form they (the chlor additives) are ALL bound to something CL is a gas. They ALL have decomposion problems if you stay below that temp range then OK.

Also all the non corrosive data shown for "new" gear oil packages being non corrosive are correct with one caveat the tests are done on NEW oil with age, breakdown,contamination and water etc they will ALL start to corrode yellow metal in time.
bruce
 
Interesting Bruce.

I wonder about something though. You said, and I quote you, "I make cutting oils that are chlorinated hydrocarbons that have basically been neutralized through a chemical process and are NON corrosive and they sell for about $8 gallon what does Miltec cost?"....end quote.

So you are making the same claim as Militec Bruce, that in fact your "chlorinated hydrocarbons" are somehow different than Militec's? Do you have any literature to back this statement up? I would like to see why your chlorine oil is better than someone elses.

Militec has been around longer...I think I'll stick to them since it seems like you are attacking them in order to maybe push your own product.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry if I have offended you, but I'm just stating the obvious here.
 
I've never seen Bruce pimp his own products on this board. In fact, he has shipped several different products to members here for free, and recommended many other common products.

Bruce:
quote:

Maybe true BUT heat any of those to 250F and put outside over night and see what you get.

I have a few ounces left of the MT10. If I were to heat the product to say ~300F (for how long?) in a Pyrex container, and then put some water in for a while with a piece of bare steel in it, would that provide a decent test?

I actually just did something similar (minus the water) with MT10+LC20 and observed no ill effects to the steel (paper clip). This was just to check miscibility (which appeared to be perfect).

P.S. I asked MPC about compatibility with Auto RX and they Highly recommend against combining the two products. There are known compatibility problems with ester based fatty acids. (They actually offered to test it in their lab to be sure, but it was not worth my effort since there is a known problem.) So to those of you that are running Militec, I bet the same would apply.
 
Would agree 100% with what Bruce said. No matter what form the Chlorine is introduced, be it a paraffin, olefin, hydrocarbon, etc., once it is dissociated from the organic molecule and interacts with moisture (which abounds in the engine crankcase), it is free to do its thing. The rate at which this dissociation occurs will depend on such factors as oil condition, heat,combustion byproducts/blowby, usage rate, etc. Those who have used it and report no problems are more than likely very fortunate but have they done any engine teardowns after some extended use? Don't believe that any of the engine oil additive companies use any chlorine containing additives. They were in use up to the very early '50s but then were fazed out. Both the Army and Navy prohibit the use of any chlorine in their engine oil specifications.
 
""So you are making the same claim as Militec Bruce, that in fact your "chlorinated hydrocarbons" are somehow different than Militec's? Do you have any literature to back this statement up? I would like to see why your chlorine oil is better than someone elses""

I'm makeing a joke I can quote all the ** they say and sell it as that, it is inhibited for acid and corrosion BUT I do not push it for ALL uses as miltes does.

I do not care if they or I have a better "chlorine" All I'm saying is use with caution >250F they will unzip.

Heat a piece of cast iron with the chlor oil on it to >250 for a half hour or so cool with water put outside a few days.

No axe to grind just giving info here
take it or leave it no big deal to me.

thats all I'm done with this one.
bruce
 
Bob I missed this one.

""Militec has been around longer...I think I'll stick to them since it seems like you are attacking them in order to maybe push your own product.""

I have been "around" 32 years has Miltec??

I push nothing here never will do not care to sell small amounts of product I'd rather give away free BUT not trying to push or sell anything do not even list my Company name or anything so Have NO motive other than CORRECT info not tanited by trying to sell something or puff myself up (no ego here to old for that ****)if you think other wise to bad.
bruce
 
Hey Bruce.

I apologize if I offended you. I would like to know more about your product if you care to share that info with me. Take care.
 
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