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#298885 - 02/27/06 10:39 PM Re: Militec-1
CoosBayDave Offline


Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 90
Loc: Coos Bay, Oregon
One thing I like about the Militec company for is that they have sent over $500,000 worth of product to our guys in the gulf war for free. My feelings are that if you have motors and machinery you care about you use synthetic oil and an additive like Militec.

That said, for the average Joe who doesn't drive it hard, and who changes oil at 3000 miles you could probably use Wesson oil and get at least 100k out of your car.

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#298886 - 03/01/06 04:59 PM Re: Militec-1
nightkrawler Offline


Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 6
Loc: Scranton, PA
i've used militec on my my bushmaster m4 carbine and sig sauers for some time now with good results, excellent lubricant for firearms. but till reading this post i've never heard of it being used in a car. i have a bmw 97 e39 540i 6spd, rp 10w30 in the engine and synchromax in the trans, good stuff imo. though i'd need some good evidence of benefits of using militec in an automobile before i'd try it.

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#298887 - 03/01/06 05:05 PM Re: Militec-1
mojo Offline


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 180
Loc: Harrisonburg VA
All the Militec that is purchased for DOD in other than the small containers (less than a pint) is clearly marked as "Not to be used in engines".

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#298888 - 03/02/06 06:22 PM Re: Militec-1
georgeyew Offline


Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 80
Loc: VA
quote:
All the Militec that is purchased for DOD in other than the small containers (less than a pint) is clearly marked as "Not to be used in engines".
Wow, I did not know that. I'll have to email them and see what they say.

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#298889 - 03/02/06 07:24 PM Re: Militec-1
jonny-b Offline


Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 1073
Loc: Norway
You don't have to e-mail them. Just go to www.militec.com , go to their Auto/transmission page. You'll find a lot of interesting articles and also the motorcycle section is worth a read.

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#298890 - 03/03/06 10:22 AM Re: Militec-1
N2OIL Offline


Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 231
Loc: Aviation Capital
TomH or anyone using the Militec 1. I see the same thing in all posts about it has caused no harm. The point to be taken is where or what benefits are offered? TomH uses M1 and it shifts like a good synthetic product should. I can't see paying the costs for this product. Also a side note Brad the owner of this product sent enough product to add to oil, trans, power steering and treat per product dosage recommendations. After a year of use in the P/S, & trans and the initial use in the oil there were no noticable differences. This is my point. Spend your money on good base fluids! [I dont know]

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#298891 - 08/28/06 03:52 AM Re: Militec-1
Bob The Builder Offline


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 279
Loc: So Cal
quote:
Originally posted by bruce381:
chlorinated Paraffins cause heavy rust in areas of condensation like under valve covers also eats all the base out of the oil.
XADO do not know of it I would like some data other than normal marketing ** and some ones say so show me any ASTM test data or any per reviewd papers or anything that shows current lube oil test data web site has NONE.

I do not belive in any lay persons opinion that this is great stuff.
bruce

Yeah, but Militec does not contain chlorinated paraffins, but rather chlorinated hydrocarbons which are very different molecularly. And the owner of the company has explained to me over the phone that the corrosive properties of the chlorinated hydrocarbons have been basically nuetralized through a chemical process...for what that's worth.

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#298892 - 08/28/06 10:39 AM Re: Militec-1
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3324
Loc: Millbrae, CA
"""Yeah, but Militec does not contain chlorinated paraffins, but rather chlorinated hydrocarbons which are very different molecularly. And the owner of the company has explained to me over the phone that the corrosive properties of the chlorinated hydrocarbons have been basically nuetralized through a chemical process...for what that's worth.""

Chlorinated ANY thing is a bad deal with decomposion to HCL acid at >250F or so and adding a overbased CA sulfonate WILL tend to nuetralize acid buld up but the salts are still corrosive that is why NO chlorinated additized oil has passed the Bearing corrosion tests for API motor oils. Old stuff can you say Power UP or
Duralube??
use it if you want.

bruce

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#298893 - 08/28/06 01:34 PM Re: Militec-1
sprintman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 11006
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
I've used Militec-1 for years. No discernible problems fwiw.

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#298894 - 08/28/06 08:14 PM Re: Militec-1
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10468
Loc: Las Vegas NV
There are at least 3 good UOA's on this board with Militec-1. For what it is designed to be (an oil additive), it appears to be OK.

My problem with Militec is the company. They sell their full power chlorinated additive as a stand alone product to the gun world. It's the same stuff that you put in your engine. Doubt this? Their website only has 1 MSDS for their entire product line (which has little useful information except: "When burning, may form carbon monoxide (Typical of organic lubricants) and hydrogen chloride").

The problem with it as a stand alone is that the chlorine content is way to high and is unbalanced. It is designed to be heavily diluted in another base oil, but the gun product is not. Results of this can be seen in this Thread(near bottom of page). It causes corrosion in wet environments. The corrosion controls only work when properly formulated.

They also recommend to heat metal parts to ~150F in order to "activate" the "chemical bonding". All this really does is burn off the light Soy carrier oil, further concentrating the chlorine content, and reducing any anti-corrosive agents that may have been in it. Many feel that the disappearing oil is being absorbed by the metal (like a sponge [Roll Eyes] )...um no.

I cannot support a company that provides such a product to an unwitting consumer, and is the #1 one product on my snake oil list.

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#298895 - 08/29/06 09:20 AM Re: Militec-1
mojo Offline


Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 180
Loc: Harrisonburg VA
Would agree 100% with what Bruce said. No matter what form the Chlorine is introduced, be it a paraffin, olefin, hydrocarbon, etc., once it is dissociated from the organic molecule and interacts with moisture (which abounds in the engine crankcase), it is free to do its thing. The rate at which this dissociation occurs will depend on such factors as oil condition, heat,combustion byproducts/blowby, usage rate, etc. Those who have used it and report no problems are more than likely very fortunate but have they done any engine teardowns after some extended use? Don't believe that any of the engine oil additive companies use any chlorine containing additives. They were in use up to the very early '50s but then were fazed out. Both the Army and Navy prohibit the use of any chlorine in their engine oil specifications.

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#298896 - 08/28/06 10:23 PM Re: Militec-1
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10468
Loc: Las Vegas NV
The 1950's? People on this board make a big deal about the differences in oil formulation from year to year. Chemistry has come a long way in 5 decades and I see no reason why improvements can't be made.

Mola and others have stated that the new gear oils have the Sulfer and Phos "locked up" and are no longer a concern for corrosion. This is pretty much accepted as gospel. I'm not seeing why is it so hard to believe that the chlorine cannot also be "locked up" (i.e. no loose Cl floating around).

I have just started to use MT10, a chlorinated additive, so I have no results so far (soon to have a UOA) in my truck. I have, however, been using this companies' (Muscle Products Corp.) fully formulated stand alone products for more than a year and have yet to see a spec of rust on any of the applications (garage door/opener, door/hood hinges, latches, firearms, etc).

In fact, this product has a similar "micro-polishing" (asperity roll-out) effect as Royal Purple. The screw on the garage opener is now very shiny and operates MUCH smoother than when it had the original black goop that was on it.

They offer a Technical Article (PDF) that gives at least a basic idea of how it works.

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#298897 - 08/28/06 10:49 PM Re: Militec-1
Bob The Builder Offline


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 279
Loc: So Cal
quote:
Originally posted by Tempest:
The 1950's? People on this board make a big deal about the differences in oil formulation from year to year. Chemistry has come a long way in 5 decades and I see no reason why improvements can't be made.

Mola and others have stated that the new gear oils have the Sulfer and Phos "locked up" and are no longer a concern for corrosion. This is pretty much accepted as gospel. I'm not seeing why is it so hard to believe that the chlorine cannot also be "locked up" (i.e. no loose Cl floating around).

I have just started to use MT10, a chlorinated additive, so I have no results so far (soon to have a UOA) in my truck. I have, however, been using this companies' (Muscle Products Corp.) fully formulated stand alone products for more than a year and have yet to see a spec of rust on any of the applications (garage door/opener, door/hood hinges, latches, firearms, etc).

In fact, this product has a similar "micro-polishing" (asperity roll-out) effect as Royal Purple. The screw on the garage opener is now very shiny and operates MUCH smoother than when it had the original black goop that was on it.

They offer a Technical Article (PDF) that gives at least a basic idea of how it works.

I would have to agree with tempest. Even though I have a very limited knowledge of chemistry, I do understand some elemental concepts such as the binding of chemical components together to make them stable that otherwise seperate would be corrosive or have some other negative properties.
As I said before, I did speak with the owner of Militec, and while I realize that people can and do lie, I felt he was being upfront with me. He specifically told me that Militec does have molecularly stable chlorinated elements in the formula, but as has been proven over and over again, many metal products have had this stuff applied including by me, and I have never seen any rust ocurr to the objects whether they be guns, bikes, sailboat parts etc.

PS. It isn't my intention to sound like a know it all, so if that has happened, I apologize. Thanks.

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#298898 - 08/29/06 12:20 AM Re: Militec-1
bruce381 Offline


Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3324
Loc: Millbrae, CA
"""rust ocurr to the objects whether they be guns, bikes, sailboat parts etc.""

Maybe true BUT heat any of those to 250F and put outside over night and see what you get.

The only reason it works OK is it is never exsposed to high heat so I guess I will eat my words about a room temp lube but not for a PCMO or gear box.

I make cutting oils that are "chlorinated hydrocarbons have been basically nuetralized through a chemical process." and are NON corrosive and they sell for about $8 gallon what does Miltec cost?

What Miltec, Power UP and duralube have done (and more power to them)is to bring to the auto home tinkerer world a lube additive concept that has great AW/EP anti scuff properties that has been used in metalworking, industrial and EMD diesels since they made dirt.

But no matter the chlorine form they (the chlor additives) are ALL bound to something CL is a gas. They ALL have decomposion problems if you stay below that temp range then OK.

Also all the non corrosive data shown for "new" gear oil packages being non corrosive are correct with one caveat the tests are done on NEW oil with age, breakdown,contamination and water etc they will ALL start to corrode yellow metal in time.
bruce

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#298899 - 08/29/06 12:41 AM Re: Militec-1
Bob The Builder Offline


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 279
Loc: So Cal
Interesting Bruce.

I wonder about something though. You said, and I quote you, "I make cutting oils that are chlorinated hydrocarbons that have basically been neutralized through a chemical process and are NON corrosive and they sell for about $8 gallon what does Miltec cost?"....end quote.

So you are making the same claim as Militec Bruce, that in fact your "chlorinated hydrocarbons" are somehow different than Militec's? Do you have any literature to back this statement up? I would like to see why your chlorine oil is better than someone elses.

Militec has been around longer...I think I'll stick to them since it seems like you are attacking them in order to maybe push your own product.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry if I have offended you, but I'm just stating the obvious here.

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