Honda Clutch Master Cylinder - grinds and squeaks

[wing0]

I'm not sure how many people are affected by this, but quite a number of people that drives Honda manual has complain about the CMC will grind and squeak as it ages. This affects Civic(myself)/RSX/TSX and maybe even TL.

Usually Honda just lube the cylinder by spraying some white lithium inside, but that only last a period of time before it returns. They will then, depending if car is still in warranty, replace the CMC. I am personally on my 3rd CMC now in a 7 year old car and don't have warranty anymore.

I want to stay away from white lithium as it doesn't seem to work when I tried to fix my 1st CMC.

The current CMC I have, it came with this pink grease which I don't know what it is.

Anybody have any good suggestion of what type of grease to use and hopefully last long enough(1 yr or so is good).

Keep replacing CMC even under my cost doesn't seem like a good solution.

Thanks all.

 

[Drew99GT]

Try putting grease on the end of the ball on the slave cylinder rod, where it goes into the clutch fork. Rust and humidity will make it squeeky. The problem might not even be the CMC itself.

Also, try greasing the clevis pin on the clutch pedal. Another culprit could be the pressure plate.

Go to 21 minutes into this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOiHgP33CM4

 

[onemig]

I also have that pink grease packet. It says it is used to lube caliper boots and master cyliner bore? I'm not sure about the second one will confirm later.

I think the ball and cup joint inside the CMC loses its lube in time. Spraying lithium grease is easier than removing the snap ring to get inside and lube the joint, not to mention brake fluid leaking inside the car. That's probably why they just spray it. Try and buy an insulin syringe, fill it with the pink grease, then inject it between the cup and ball joint. It's just behind the metal plate the snap ring holds.

 

[wing0]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Try putting grease on the end of the ball on the slave cylinder rod, where it goes into the clutch fork. Rust and humidity will make it squeeky. The problem might not even be the CMC itself.

Also, try greasing the clevis pin on the clutch pedal. Another culprit could be the pressure plate.

Go to 21 minutes into this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOiHgP33CM4


It is the CMC. The tech lead at Honda also know about it.

Originally Posted By: onemig
I also have that pink grease packet. It says it is used to lube caliper boots and master cyliner bore? I'm not sure about the second one will confirm later.

I think the ball and cup joint inside the CMC loses its lube in time. Spraying lithium grease is easier than removing the snap ring to get inside and lube the joint, not to mention brake fluid leaking inside the car. That's probably why they just spray it. Try and buy an insulin syringe, fill it with the pink grease, then inject it between the cup and ball joint. It's just behind the metal plate the snap ring holds.


What is this pink lube called? I have yet to know exactly what they pack inside the cylinder. It usually last about 1 yr before the noise come back. So it'd be great to get the same thing.

 

[Cardenio327]

I would NOT get white lithium grease anywhere near the inside of a master or slave cylinder. It contains petroleum, NOT compatible with brake system rubber. The Honda dealer probably has to replace the CMC after greasing because its internal rubber parts have swollen up and deteriorated due to the petroleum.

The best thing to do would be what Onemig said, inject Honda's pink grease with a hypodermic needle.

The closest thing to Honda's grease is probably Napa's Sil-Glyde, a silicone grease that I understand (I may be wrong) to be compatible with internal brake hydraulics.

 

[Tegger]

According to my fairly extensive collection of Honda documentation, this is a common problem on most '01 to '04 Honda products.

My TSBs say that there are TWO possible sources of the squeak, twang, or notchy feel:
1) the clutch master cylinder spring is rubbing on the outer diameter of the piston when the pedal is pressed, or
2) the master cylinder quick connect (high-pressure hydraulic fitting) is moving.

To isolate the noise:
1) raise the hood and put your fingers gently on the high-pressure fitting on the master cylinder;
2) have somebody press the clutch pedal down and release it repeatedly.

If you feel the fitting move against your fingers, then that's the source of the noise. If the fitting does NOT move, then the noise is internal to the master cylinder.

 

[wing0]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
I would NOT get white lithium grease anywhere near the inside of a master or slave cylinder. It contains petroleum, NOT compatible with brake system rubber. The Honda dealer probably has to replace the CMC after greasing because its internal rubber parts have swollen up and deteriorated due to the petroleum.

The best thing to do would be what Onemig said, inject Honda's pink grease with a hypodermic needle.

The closest thing to Honda's grease is probably Napa's Sil-Glyde, a silicone grease that I understand (I may be wrong) to be compatible with internal brake hydraulics.


How about normal silicone lube like permatex? Is that the same sort of stuff? I have that for brake caliper, slider pins.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
According to my fairly extensive collection of Honda documentation, this is a common problem on most '01 to '04 Honda products.

My TSBs say that there are TWO possible sources of the squeak, twang, or notchy feel:
1) the clutch master cylinder spring is rubbing on the outer diameter of the piston when the pedal is pressed, or
2) the master cylinder quick connect (high-pressure hydraulic fitting) is moving.

To isolate the noise:
1) raise the hood and put your fingers gently on the high-pressure fitting on the master cylinder;
2) have somebody press the clutch pedal down and release it repeatedly.

If you feel the fitting move against your fingers, then that's the source of the noise. If the fitting does NOT move, then the noise is internal to the master cylinder.


It gets worse on really hot summer day. Sometimes if I blast a/c on the footwell for a few mins. The grinding stops which makes me believe it's the rubbing due to heat expansion without enough lubrication. Also it doesn't come up in winter time.

 

[JamesBond]

I had a clutch squeak/groan/creak/notchiness on my '04 Civic. White lithium spray grease fixed mine. You need to grease up the shaft that goes through the firewall on the back of the clutch pedal, then depress the clutch part-way and spray some grease in the hole in the firewall. This took a couple of tries, and a fresh can of CRC spray grease worked better than the old no-name grease that I had on the shelf.

Takes about 2 minutes and 2 paper towels, and is done from under the dash.

 

[wing0]

Originally Posted By: JamesBond
I had a clutch squeak/groan/creak/notchiness on my '04 Civic. White lithium spray grease fixed mine. You need to grease up the shaft that goes through the firewall on the back of the clutch pedal, then depress the clutch part-way and spray some grease in the hole in the firewall. This took a couple of tries, and a fresh can of CRC spray grease worked better than the old no-name grease that I had on the shelf.

Takes about 2 minutes and 2 paper towels, and is done from under the dash.


I tried that with the 1st and 2nd CMCs with this:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/3/AutoFluidsChemicals/LubricantsPenetrants/PRD~0381563P/3-in-1+Professional+White+Lithium+Grease.jsp?locale=en

Both times, it helps for around 2-3 days before it comes back again. It always can't get past 1 week mark.

This is why I have been on the search for better grease to hopefully make it last a few months...

 

[JamesBond]

It took me a couple of tries to get it to stop. I don't think the type of grease is the issue, but rather getting it in the right location. The spray grease is good because it sprays all over the place, the bad part is that it can run and drip off before the carrier evaporates.

When I did mine I would push the clutch in a little ways, and give it a squirt on the top, bottom, sides of the shaft, then push the clutch a little further down and do it again. Then continue to hold the clutch down for a minute of so to give the grease some time to dry.

At first I would spray the grease in the hole and then let the clutch up, and the liquid grease would squeeze back out of the hole and into the cabin, then I started holding the pedal down and giving it some time to dry and, bingo!

BTW I still get the creak occasionally after a lot of rain or when its really damp out, but it goes away after a few minutes of driving.