Best Oil for an old 454?

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Valve cover leaks on a 70's vintage Chevy? So what else is new? Change the valve cover gaskets to some modern molded rubber ones with plastic carriers.

Nothing heavier than 40-weight.
Nothing below 30-weight.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
How can you have " the cleaning of syn oil" if there isnt any synthetic lubricant in most "fully synthetic" PCMO, Doog?
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#1 easy choice would be RT6, next a major Mineral motorbike 4T or ATV 40grade oil on sale at your local VIP or wherever; these are current/modern base stocks with high EP/AW adds with API SH phos limits. These are API PCMO servvice category oils - dont be confused by motorcycle pictures on the oil bottle - only the certs matter, not ad copy or pictures!!! Most OIL Guys here still dont get this SIMPLE fact and are afraid to run "motorcycle" oil in a car engine. IN most cases this oil is much more robust than ANY current ISACL approved lube.
DOH!


How would you know? You are unable to keep a car longer than a year...maybe two before the valves start making noise or something else blows out. You are absolutely the last guy I would ask about oil.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: Doog
DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL!!


Why?


The seal technology in the 1970's and 1980's is not very good at handling synthetic oil. You have a high chance of getting leaks based on the cleaning of syn oil over time. Engine sealing technology changed radically in the 1990-1994 time frame. So anything pre-1993 would be best served by dino.


That is entirely untrue. What usually happens is that old gaskets, particularly cork valve cover gaskets, become rock-hard and stop doing their job. But deposit build-up along their edges has prevented leaks. When that build-up gets cleaned-off, well, the leaks begin. Even a new set of cork gaskets fixes the problem.

I experienced that in my Mustang. A new set of valve cover gaskets, and it was golden.

Properly formulated lubricants are designed to be compatible with, and not harm all major gasket and seal materials, even those used 50+ years ago. The base oil is irrelevant because of this.


You don't know what you are talking about either.
 
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: Doog
DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL!!


Why?


The seal technology in the 1970's and 1980's is not very good at handling synthetic oil. You have a high chance of getting leaks based on the cleaning of syn oil over time. Engine sealing technology changed radically in the 1990-1994 time frame. So anything pre-1993 would be best served by dino.


Oh. That old myth. This engine might very well leak through the seals, but it won't have anything to do with the base stock of the oil.


Not a myth. Call Federal Mogul or FNOK and ask any of the engineering people who deal with engine sealing.
 
Originally Posted By: Greg L

I told him that he might be better to start with the High Milage O'Reilly brand of 10w40, since it was on sale for $3.89 a quart. He ended up buying that instead.


He should be fine with that.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog

You don't know what you are talking about either.


And you do?
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LOL!

How many engines have you had apart there champ? I assume since you couldn't find the power steering reservoir on your vehicle that has electric power steering, that a guess close to "ZERO" would be about accurate, am I right?

I have a LOT of experience with extremely old engines. And when I say extremely old, I'm talking 1930's, 40's 50's....etc. We literally had a FLEET of antique boats when I was growing up and I was heavily involved in their maintenance.

I've also posted the 302 builds I've been involved with on this site (80's engines).

So unless you can tell me that you are more qualified than I am to relate to actual experience on this topic, I suggest keeping your baseless criticisms to yourself.
 
Castrol actually addressed this question in one of their FAQ's:

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9014502&contentId=7017050

Originally Posted By: Castrol
FACT OR MYTH?
SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL WILL RUIN THE SEALS IN OLDER VEHICLES AND CAUSE LEAKS.

Answer: MYTH! We're not sure who leaked that rumor, but synthetic motor oil does not cause leaks. It is 100% compatible with all automotive seal and gasket materials. In fact, SYNTEC meets additional ACEA seal protection requirements not even addressed in API specs.
 
Doog has his sights trained on anyone who posts. Look out.
He may be right about arco but that's arco's problem as he has to pay for replacements so I say rock on.
If I were Arco I would be ripping apart every blown engine just to see what broke,and I like tearing things apart.
As far as overkill is concerned,doogie has lost his mind. I can guarantee you overkill has researched and has informed himself and his posts reflect that he has done more than just a google search. Overkill is not the type to allow himself to be corrected. So he posts correctly,the first time.
K. So back on topic. Oil in a 454. My uncle has a 70 chevelle with an LS-6 454. He uses pyb 10w-30 and has since he bought it brand new in 1970. Car has 70000 original miles and boys its already willed to me.
It's the baddest muscle car Chevrolet ever built. The last of the fire breathing muscle cars to roll off the line in Detroit and it looks exactly like it did the day he took delivery.
Yeah so pyb,changed every 3000 miles due to fuel dilution on the massive carb up top.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog


Not a myth. Call Federal Mogul or FNOK and ask any of the engineering people who deal with engine sealing.


The odds of being able to talk to an actual Engineer from any of the gasket/seal companies is about as likely as calling ExxonMobil and speaking to a lubrication Engineer.

You talk to a "Customer Service Representative" that will tell you all kinds of exciting stuff (I cite the varied responses we've got from the oil companies over the years that often clash with other responses from the same company.... just from a different rep as an example here) that may or may not reflect the position of the company they represent.

I would LOVE to see an actual statement, authorized by a company like Felpro, on this topic. Because it completely contradicts the official statements made by the oil companies as well as the experience of those who have actually done what is being argued against here and observed no issues.
 
Mobil's official response:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/High_Mileage_Vehicles.aspx

Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil

Question:
Will Higher Mileage Vehicles Leak More When Switched to Synthetic Oil?
I've always heard that higher mileage vehicles will be more prone to oil leaks if one changes from regular to fully synthetic. True or not? My '97 Expedition has 101,000 miles with regular oil. What's the best for me?
-- Patrick Poe, Norman, OK

Answer:
Mobil 1 High Mileage is formulated with seal swells that will help eliminate leakage. We recommend you switch to Mobil 1 High Mileage for your vehicle. If your vehicle is not leaking now, switching to synthetic will not suddenly cause it to leak. Switching to a synthetic now may help you to maximize the life of your Expedition. If your vehicle is leaking before you change to synthetic, it will probably continue to leak with synthetic. However, by using Mobil 1 High Mileage it is possible that leakage could be eliminated or reduced. It depends on what is causing the leak.


http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Dry_Engines.aspx

Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil

Question:
Does Switch to Synthetics Cause 'Dry' Engines to Begin Leaking
There seems to be lots of disagreement across various web message boards about the effect of a late change to synthetic oil on engine seals -- all based on anecdotal experience. Is there any scientific basis to support or refute the claim that synthetics can cause "dry" engines to start leaking? Has anyone ever conducted a controlled study on this topic? I'm trying to figure out what to do to my '98 BMW 740i with 126,000 miles which I'd like to keep until I get it to at least 200,000 miles.
-- Kent Bauman, Tucson, AZ

Answer:
Synthetic oils meeting OEM (original equipment manufacturer) and Industry specifications do not cause leaks as they are tested to ensure that they are fully compatible with the elastomer materials from which automotive seals and gaskets are made. We are not aware of a controlled study on this topic.
 
Pennzoil's official response:

http://www.pennzoil.ca/learn-about-motor-oil/synthetic-oil/

Originally Posted By: SOPUS

Myth: You shouldn’t use synthetic oil in an older vehicle.

The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is “slipperier,” lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not. Again, completely untrue. Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Doog


Not a myth. Call Federal Mogul or FNOK and ask any of the engineering people who deal with engine sealing.


The odds of being able to talk to an actual Engineer from any of the gasket/seal companies is about as likely as calling ExxonMobil and speaking to a lubrication Engineer.

You talk to a "Customer Service Representative" that will tell you all kinds of exciting stuff (I cite the varied responses we've got from the oil companies over the years that often clash with other responses from the same company.... just from a different rep as an example here) that may or may not reflect the position of the company they represent.

I would LOVE to see an actual statement, authorized by a company like Felpro, on this topic. Because it completely contradicts the official statements made by the oil companies as well as the experience of those who have actually done what is being argued against here and observed no issues.


In my time, I've built... oh, I don't know. At least a thousand engines. I never, ever, ever, even at the peak of the PAO-synthetic debacle, worried about some obscure combination of gasket and oil that would magically cause a leak. In my opinion, engines that leaked with early synthetics were already leaking, they just leaked MORE once their seals "un-swelled," which has always been my understanding of what was going on with the PAO's.
 
Royal Purple's official response:

http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/why-rp/faqs/

Originally Posted By: Royal Purple

Properly formulated synthetic oils will generally not cause an engine oil leak. Synthetic oils possess a higher degree of natural solvency, which can clean and remove deposits left by previous oils. The removal of extensive oil deposits can expose marginal or damaged oil seals, which may then leak. If an engine currently has excessive oil consumption (i.e. greater than 1 quart / 1,000 miles) the recommended course of action is to solve the oil consumption problem before switching to a synthetic.


http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/royalpurple/faq.html

Originally Posted By: Royal Purple

Will Royal Purple cause my engine to leak?

Royal Purple will not cause an oil leak. In some instances, usually in older engines that have not been properly maintained, there may be a bad seal or cracked gasket that is not leaking because it is filled with oil sludge, lacquer and varnish deposits. Synthetic oils are designed to carry away deposits, so it is possible to expose marginal seals after those pre-existing deposits are removed. If an engine leaks after putting Royal Purple or any other synthetic in, the oil is probably not causing the leak, it is exposing an existing leak. In these cases or in older cars where this might be a concern, it may be best not to recommend a very lightweight oil. In the long run, it is better to replace a faulty gasket than to leave those deposits in the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Doog


Not a myth. Call Federal Mogul or FNOK and ask any of the engineering people who deal with engine sealing.


The odds of being able to talk to an actual Engineer from any of the gasket/seal companies is about as likely as calling ExxonMobil and speaking to a lubrication Engineer.

You talk to a "Customer Service Representative" that will tell you all kinds of exciting stuff (I cite the varied responses we've got from the oil companies over the years that often clash with other responses from the same company.... just from a different rep as an example here) that may or may not reflect the position of the company they represent.

I would LOVE to see an actual statement, authorized by a company like Felpro, on this topic. Because it completely contradicts the official statements made by the oil companies as well as the experience of those who have actually done what is being argued against here and observed no issues.


In my time, I've built... oh, I don't know. At least a thousand engines. I never, ever, ever, even at the peak of the PAO-synthetic debacle, worried about some obscure combination of gasket and oil that would magically cause a leak. In my opinion, engines that leaked with early synthetics were already leaking, they just leaked MORE once their seals "un-swelled," which has always been my understanding of what was going on with the PAO's.


Hat's off to you sir!
thumbsup2.gif
That's a heck of a lot of experience! You sound like an engine builder I know
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: metalboy
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Doog


Not a myth. Call Federal Mogul or FNOK and ask any of the engineering people who deal with engine sealing.


The odds of being able to talk to an actual Engineer from any of the gasket/seal companies is about as likely as calling ExxonMobil and speaking to a lubrication Engineer.

You talk to a "Customer Service Representative" that will tell you all kinds of exciting stuff (I cite the varied responses we've got from the oil companies over the years that often clash with other responses from the same company.... just from a different rep as an example here) that may or may not reflect the position of the company they represent.

I would LOVE to see an actual statement, authorized by a company like Felpro, on this topic. Because it completely contradicts the official statements made by the oil companies as well as the experience of those who have actually done what is being argued against here and observed no issues.


In my time, I've built... oh, I don't know. At least a thousand engines. I never, ever, ever, even at the peak of the PAO-synthetic debacle, worried about some obscure combination of gasket and oil that would magically cause a leak. In my opinion, engines that leaked with early synthetics were already leaking, they just leaked MORE once their seals "un-swelled," which has always been my understanding of what was going on with the PAO's.


Hat's off to you sir!
thumbsup2.gif
That's a heck of a lot of experience! You sound like an engine builder I know
wink.gif



There's not as much variety as you might think, though. I probably did 75 a year of just one particular type back in the mid-90's. Good pay, but I had to get out of it.
 
Originally Posted By: metalboy

There's not as much variety as you might think, though. I probably did 75 a year of just one particular type back in the mid-90's. Good pay, but I had to get out of it.


But it is still experience!
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My experience is focused mostly on the 302 SBF. But the rest of it is pretty varied
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Gray, Chris-Craft, Chrysler, Scripps, Dispro....etc. We had pretty much at least one of everything... sometimes a lot more than one
wink.gif
 
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