Looking for straight 75W MTF options in USA...

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MTL are the choices if we decide to up the viscosity a bit for more protection and maybe Amsoil synchromesh depending on prices.


As far getting AW protection, you WILL find it in MTL 75W80 or Amsoil MTL, but you will NOT get very much AW protection in any ATF, which is why I recommend against using an ATF in a manual transmission, irregardless of certain companies claiming GL-4 protection levels for their ATF's.

Why, because the so-called GL-4 ATF's have only about 1/4 the AW additive levels that application-specific Manual Transmission Fluids have.
 
Thanks Molakule. What do you think about viscosity? What does additional power do to an MTX if anything?
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
What does additional power do to an MTX if anything?

It increases the pressure and stress on the bearings and gears. This will generate more heat which will slightly reduce the viscosity of the fluid. The increased pressure on the gear-teeth and bearings will allow for more contact-wear. Most of this should be covered by the safety-margin of the OE fluid.

Unless you're racing on a track you won't be able to produce a significant change in the fluid temps and the wear-rate. Changing out the fluid after break-in will probably have a much bigger affect on the transmission life than the added torque-load.

I'd recommend doing a UOA after you've put some time on the new fluid (5k miles) and then again after a year to see how it's doing. UOA will give you usable information to prevent excessive wear and catch problems before they happen.
 
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Thanks Molakule. What do you think about viscosity? What does additional power do to an MTX if anything?


One thing for sure is that the MTL will shear under any horsepower level, more with more HP, so expect the fluid to shear down a bit faster.

The proposed power increase will mean slightly increased oil temps, but mainly from heat conduction to the transmission.

As others have suggested, do a VOA on selected fluid and then do periodic UOA's to keep track of wear trends.

If this vehicle is going to be used in racing, change fluids every three heats. If used as a daily driver that is simply going to be re-chipped or re-programmed for a bit higher performance, I wouldn't be too concerned about a 20% power increase.
 
Thanks for the feedback, both of you.

When does break-in usually end on a brand new MTX?
 
That question is impossible to answer without a close tracking of a UOA with sampling say every 100 miles or so.

I recommend changing the oil at 500 miles to flush out any manf. particles or run-in wear.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I recommend changing the oil at 500 miles to flush out any manf. particles or run-in wear.

Yep. The wear contamination starts high and reduces with time. The cleaner you keep the fluid at the start the less wear you'll generate down the road and the longer your bearings will last.

To elaborate on what Mola said, you could do a change after approx one-tank of fuel (new vehicle), then again after 10 tanks, then again after 100 tanks. After the tranny is broken in and the fluid is fresh the amount of wear generated should be very minimal and you should be able to get many years on the fill (UOA will confirm this). It's what you do at the early stages that determines how this plays out.

Every application and fluid will behave a little different but will follow this trend. Same goes for power-steering, automatic trannys and hydraulic systems.
 
Martinq,

I thought you might be interested to know I found Pentosin MTF2 and it is widely available. It is only 7 cSt, so very close to the OEM despite being labled as a 75W-80. Looks like an impressive MTF on paper.
 
It averages around $22/L I think. Still high, but not not as high as VW OEM fluids.

I might use this next time in my skyactiv 6spd MTX when I drain my Redline MTL.
 
That's more than the Red Line but not by too much. It looks like it will be noticeable thinner than MTL and very close to D4.

What is your feedback using MTL in the Mazda? What else have you used?
 
Originally Posted By: martinq
That's more than the Red Line but not by too much. It looks like it will be noticeable thinner than MTL and very close to D4.

What is your feedback using MTL in the Mazda? What else have you used?


My car only has 20k on it. I only recently swapped out the OEM fluid because I bought the car with 15k already on it. Yes, believe it or not I found a certified pre-owned car with a manual and 100k warranty. I wasn't really ready to get rid of my Mazda6, but I was never going to find a car like this again.

The OEM fluid was Mazda 75w-80. Temps above 50 it was like butter. Temps below 30, you could feel the synchros catching from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd until warmed up. I didn't get the MTL in there in time to see if it is better in the extreme cold, but I gotta think that it will be better. My MPG results are pending but I was doing really well with OEM so I only hope there is no decrease.

I think I found the Redline MTL fo r$12/qt and the MTX only takes 1.75 qts, which makes it a cheap maintenance item if i ever get the tools to do it myself.
 
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Originally Posted By: tnt31
http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/121345
Wow that's a low VI and doesn't rate well at low temps. Compare this to Red Line, Amsoil and Pentosin:

Fuchs Sintofluid FE Synthetic 75W GL-4
100C = 6.7
40C == 40.8
-40C = 75000
VI === 119
PP === -44 C
FP === 221 C

Pentosin MTF 2
100C = 7.7
40C == 38.3
-40C = 7600
VI === 177
PP === FP === 228 C

Red Line MTL
100C = 10.6
40C == 56.2
-40C = 12000
VI === 183
PP === -50 C
FP === 232 C

Amsoil MTL
100C = 9.7
40C == 48.3
-40C = 39050
VI === 190
FP === 218 C
PP === -46 C

Amsoil MTG
100C = 13.9
40C == 87.6
-40C = 33290
VI === 162
FP === 214 C
PP === -54 C

A couple interesting things here. Pentosin has the best cold-flow (40C/-40C) followed by Red Line (-40C). Amsoil MTL, despite being a thinner fluid, does not flow as well as MTG at -40C. Fuchs has second best flow at 40C but the worst when cold and this shows in it's bottom-ranking VI of 119.
 
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Fuchs already recommended 70W80 GL5 for your application. Indeed initially was the FE 75W ...factory fill still is. You have to account for the low VI when you match other fluids to it just like Fuchs did when they recommended their 75W80 Gl-5 which is thinner below 10C where shifting issues may appear. Disregard the GL-5... this comes from the same company that makes zinc free motor oil for more than a decade so don't worry about sinchro corrosion.

Red Line MTL would be too thick for this applications. Same goes fot the MTG.
The cheapest alternative is Honda MTF provided it's got the right GL package. It's rather close to a low GL-4 or ...like Red Line D4.

75W already is almoust the most wide spread viscosity for new MTFs...according to some smart engineers @ some virtual SAE conference. Some 75W80's are also labeled SAE 75W and also some 70W-75 are labeled the same mostly because J306 does not accommodate SAE 75 just yet.
 
Originally Posted By: tudorart
Fuchs already recommended 70W80 GL5 for your application. Indeed initially was the FE 75W ...factory fill still is. You have to account for the low VI when you match other fluids to it just like Fuchs did when they recommended their 75W80 Gl-5 which is thinner below 10C where shifting issues may appear. Disregard the GL-5... this comes from the same company that makes zinc free motor oil for more than a decade so don't worry about sinchro corrosion.

Red Line MTL would be too thick for this applications. Same goes fot the MTG.
The cheapest alternative is Honda MTF provided it's got the right GL package. It's rather close to a low GL-4 or ...like Red Line D4.

75W already is almoust the most wide spread viscosity for new MTFs...according to some smart engineers @ some virtual SAE conference. Some 75W80's are also labeled SAE 75W and also some 70W-75 are labeled the same mostly because J306 does not accommodate SAE 75 just yet.


Redline MTL (70W-80) looks to be close to the same as Fuchs 75W-80 fluid. If Redline MTL is too thick than so is Fuchs 75W-80:

http://syntheticoil-europe.eu/manual-tra...5w-80-gl-5.html
 
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Originally Posted By: martinq
Amsoil MTG
100C = 13.9
40C == 87.6
-40C = 33290
VI === 162
FP === 214 C
PP === -54 C



Is that 40C number correct? That is more than twice as thick as everything else.
 
Quote:
The cheapest alternative is Honda MTF provided it's got the right GL package.


Tudo, were you referring to the MTFII?
 
I was thinking the latest one, the European MTF III or the siver MTF State-side (following the first MTF 10W30 - 75W80 black bottle).
This latest MTF should be a "5W20 style 75W80" or just plain 75W, however I always thought GL-3 was enough package for a Honda MT and don't see any reason for Honda to upgrade to GL-4.
Have you seen differently in the different VOA's here?
 
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