Some good info on the Chrysler 3.5l HO

[RamFan]

I asked:
Good morning, I've got two questions regarding my '07 Charger with the
3.5l V6. First, I know that this engine went through a revision in '97 where
it went from Iron to Aluminum, non-interference to interference, etc. I've
not been able to find what kind of cams this engine uses. Does it have
roller cams or is it flat tappet?

Secondly, regarding the oil viscosity requirement. The Chrysler 3.5l V6 and 4.0 I6 are the only two motors (in the Chrysler lineup) to specify that 10w30 was the preferred oil weight. This is a fairly unusual viscosity recommendation, especially for a
vehicle made in the 2000s. Why is it that Chrysler hung onto this oil recommendation for so long, especially when the rest of the fleet was making a switch from 5w30 to 5w20?

Thank you.

Their answer:

The 3.5 Liter (214 Cubic Inches) 60°V-6 engine is a single overhead
camshaft design with hydraulic lifters and four valves per cylinder. As
you mentioned, the engine does not have provisions for a free wheeling
valve train.

The aluminum alloy cylinder heads feature cross-flow type intake and
exhaust ports. Valve guides and seat inserts are powdered metal. Valves
are arranged in a ?V?, with each camshaft on center. To improve
combustion speed the chambers are a compact spherical design with a
squish area of approximately 30 percent of the piston top area. The
cylinder heads are common to either cylinder bank by reversing the
direction of installation.

Rocker arms are made of light weight permanent mold aluminum alloy with
a roller type follower operating against the camshaft . The valve
actuating end of the rocker arms are machined to retain hydraulic lash
adjusters, eliminating the need for manual valve lash adjustment.

A single overhead camshaft per cylinder head provides valve actuation.
The left camshaft accommodates a cam sensor pick-up wheel and is
therefore longer. Each camshaft is supported by four bearing journals. A
thrust plate attached to the rear of each cylinder head controls
camshaft end play. Right and left camshaft driving sprockets support a
timing mark, are keyed, and not interchangeable because of the cam
sensor pick-up wheel on the left sprocket. Camshaft bearing lubrication
is provided via a oil supply passage through each rocker shaft pedestal
dowel.

The camshaft is driven by the crankshaft via drive sprockets and belt.
The camshaft has precisely machined lobes to provide accurate valve
timing and duration.

SAE 10W-30 engine oil is recommended for the 3.5L engines, for
temperatures above ?18°C (0° F). SAE 5W-30 engine oil is recommended for
the 2.7L and 3.5L engine, for operating temperatures below ?18°C (0° F).
These engine oils improve low temperature starting and vehicle fuel
economy.

So they answered my cam question with great detail. The oil, not so much. The mystery still remains...

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: RamFan
I asked:
Good morning, I've got two questions regarding my '07 Charger with the
3.5l V6. First, I know that this engine went through a revision in '97 where
it went from Iron to Aluminum, non-interference to interference, etc. I've
not been able to find what kind of cams this engine uses. Does it have
roller cams or is it flat tappet?

Secondly, regarding the oil viscosity requirement. The Chrysler 3.5l V6 and 4.0 I6 are the only two motors (in the Chrysler lineup) to specify that 10w30 was the preferred oil weight. This is a fairly unusual viscosity recommendation, especially for a
vehicle made in the 2000s. Why is it that Chrysler hung onto this oil recommendation for so long, especially when the rest of the fleet was making a switch from 5w30 to 5w20?

Thank you.

Their answer:

The 3.5 Liter (214 Cubic Inches) 60°V-6 engine is a single overhead
camshaft design with hydraulic lifters and four valves per cylinder. As
you mentioned, the engine does not have provisions for a free wheeling
valve train.

The aluminum alloy cylinder heads feature cross-flow type intake and
exhaust ports. Valve guides and seat inserts are powdered metal. Valves
are arranged in a ?V?, with each camshaft on center. To improve
combustion speed the chambers are a compact spherical design with a
squish area of approximately 30 percent of the piston top area. The
cylinder heads are common to either cylinder bank by reversing the
direction of installation.

Rocker arms are made of light weight permanent mold aluminum alloy with
a roller type follower operating against the camshaft . The valve
actuating end of the rocker arms are machined to retain hydraulic lash
adjusters, eliminating the need for manual valve lash adjustment.

A single overhead camshaft per cylinder head provides valve actuation.
The left camshaft accommodates a cam sensor pick-up wheel and is
therefore longer. Each camshaft is supported by four bearing journals. A
thrust plate attached to the rear of each cylinder head controls
camshaft end play. Right and left camshaft driving sprockets support a
timing mark, are keyed, and not interchangeable because of the cam
sensor pick-up wheel on the left sprocket. Camshaft bearing lubrication
is provided via a oil supply passage through each rocker shaft pedestal
dowel.

The camshaft is driven by the crankshaft via drive sprockets and belt.
The camshaft has precisely machined lobes to provide accurate valve
timing and duration.

SAE 10W-30 engine oil is recommended for the 3.5L engines, for
temperatures above ?18°C (0° F). SAE 5W-30 engine oil is recommended for
the 2.7L and 3.5L engine, for operating temperatures below ?18°C (0° F).
These engine oils improve low temperature starting and vehicle fuel
economy.

So they answered my cam question with great detail. The oil, not so much. The mystery still remains...



They were able to cut-and-paste from the factory service manual (pretty much literally, and a lot of it is verbatim from the 1993 FSM for the older iron block engine!) but the oil question would require actually getting in touch with engineering. I wonder if any engineers that worked on the 3.5 design are still at Chrysler, or if they bailed during the Diamler and Cerberus years. The root design goes all the way back to the 80s, since they kinda-sorta started with the 3.3/3.8 bore center spacing and other geometric constraints when cooking up the original iron 3.5.

Still one of the greatest engines of the 90s and early 2k's if you ask me. Turned into a real workhorse, though not quite as universal as the Pentastar is now since the pushrod 3.3/3.8 was used in most minivans while the 3.5 was in the cars and the Pacifica.


You wanna know my theory on why they stuck with 10w30 for the 3.5/4.0? Because they cut corners and never did update the printed materials (manuals, FSMs, etc.) for it. Those were some lean years at Chrysler.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: RamFan
I asked:
Good morning, I've got two questions regarding my '07 Charger with the
3.5l V6. First, I know that this engine went through a revision in '97 where
it went from Iron to Aluminum, non-interference to interference, etc. I've
not been able to find what kind of cams this engine uses. Does it have
roller cams or is it flat tappet?

Secondly, regarding the oil viscosity requirement. The Chrysler 3.5l V6 and 4.0 I6 are the only two motors (in the Chrysler lineup) to specify that 10w30 was the preferred oil weight. This is a fairly unusual viscosity recommendation, especially for a
vehicle made in the 2000s. Why is it that Chrysler hung onto this oil recommendation for so long, especially when the rest of the fleet was making a switch from 5w30 to 5w20?

Thank you.

Their answer:

The 3.5 Liter (214 Cubic Inches) 60°V-6 engine is a single overhead
camshaft design with hydraulic lifters and four valves per cylinder. As
you mentioned, the engine does not have provisions for a free wheeling
valve train.

The aluminum alloy cylinder heads feature cross-flow type intake and
exhaust ports. Valve guides and seat inserts are powdered metal. Valves
are arranged in a ?V?, with each camshaft on center. To improve
combustion speed the chambers are a compact spherical design with a
squish area of approximately 30 percent of the piston top area. The
cylinder heads are common to either cylinder bank by reversing the
direction of installation.

Rocker arms are made of light weight permanent mold aluminum alloy with
a roller type follower operating against the camshaft . The valve
actuating end of the rocker arms are machined to retain hydraulic lash
adjusters, eliminating the need for manual valve lash adjustment.

A single overhead camshaft per cylinder head provides valve actuation.
The left camshaft accommodates a cam sensor pick-up wheel and is
therefore longer. Each camshaft is supported by four bearing journals. A
thrust plate attached to the rear of each cylinder head controls
camshaft end play. Right and left camshaft driving sprockets support a
timing mark, are keyed, and not interchangeable because of the cam
sensor pick-up wheel on the left sprocket. Camshaft bearing lubrication
is provided via a oil supply passage through each rocker shaft pedestal
dowel.

The camshaft is driven by the crankshaft via drive sprockets and belt.
The camshaft has precisely machined lobes to provide accurate valve
timing and duration.

SAE 10W-30 engine oil is recommended for the 3.5L engines, for
temperatures above ?18°C (0° F). SAE 5W-30 engine oil is recommended for
the 2.7L and 3.5L engine, for operating temperatures below ?18°C (0° F).
These engine oils improve low temperature starting and vehicle fuel
economy.

So they answered my cam question with great detail. The oil, not so much. The mystery still remains...



They were able to cut-and-paste from the factory service manual (pretty much literally, and a lot of it is verbatim from the 1993 FSM for the older iron block engine!) but the oil question would require actually getting in touch with engineering. I wonder if any engineers that worked on the 3.5 design are still at Chrysler, or if they bailed during the Diamler and Cerberus years. The root design goes all the way back to the 80s, since they kinda-sorta started with the 3.3/3.8 bore center spacing and other geometric constraints when cooking up the original iron 3.5.

Still one of the greatest engines of the 90s and early 2k's if you ask me. Turned into a real workhorse, though not quite as universal as the Pentastar is now since the pushrod 3.3/3.8 was used in most minivans while the 3.5 was in the cars and the Pacifica.


You wanna know my theory on why they stuck with 10w30 for the 3.5/4.0? Because they cut corners and never did update the printed materials (manuals, FSMs, etc.) for it. Those were some lean years at Chrysler.

I think I'm going to have to call them to try and get an answer on the oil. E-mailing hasn't gotten me no where, this is my second or third attempt.


If they didn't switch the rest to 5w20 I'd buy your theory but it makes no sense to switch the rest but leave out the 3.5 and 4.0.

 

[NHGUY]

They pushed a lot of HP out of those 3.5/4.0 engines,maybe they were harder on the oil than the old-tech 3.3/3.8 and thus degraded the oil viscosity quicker?

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: RamFan


I think I'm going to have to call them to try and get an answer on the oil. E-mailing hasn't gotten me no where, this is my second or third attempt.


If they didn't switch the rest to 5w20 I'd buy your theory but it makes no sense to switch the rest but leave out the 3.5 and 4.0.


Were "the rest" new engines, or legacy engines like the 3.5/4.0? I know the Jeep 4.0 never got switched. What about the 3.3/3.8? The EDZ 2.4 and its relatives all got replaced by the GEMA engines (except for the EDZ in the 2010 PT Cruiser- it was the lone survivor), so I'm not surprised the GEMA engines got a new rating. To be honest, I never looked at the whole Chrysler engine lineup and when oil recommendations were changed. For example, I know they changed the 4.7 v8 to 5w20, but that may have been when it got a big revision in late 2007.

There may be a serious engineering reason that the 3.5/4.0 SOHC v6 was kept 10w30. Maybe the power density per unit bearing area (or something else like that) just demands it.. Or maybe its that those hydraulic lash adjusters on the roller fingers tended toward noisy on startup (I know the ones on my 93 3.5 did even with 10w30- for the whole 250,000 trouble-free miles I had it!) But knowing Chrysler as I have lo these past 40+ years, it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if it was something trivial. Heck, my 1966 FSM calls out the 426 Wedge engine when it had already been supplanted by the 440, and some of the pictures in my 1973 FSM show the polyspheric head 318 which hadn't been built since 1966. I love Mopars, but sometimes they really are the red-headed stepchild that's always making trouble. Not as crazy as AMC in the 70s, but that's a left-handed compliment...

 

[Topo]

It's because the engine was spec was for Dino oils. Prior to API SN there were many Dino's of the 5W30 grade would shear, they did not want this for this engine. I never had issues with 10W30 and I have no problem running 5W30 either, Today's SN Dino's do not shear at the level they once did.

 

[nitehawk55]

Run a 0W30 or 5W30 , either would be a suitable choice .

 

[Jarlaxle]

Run both (same brand oil & filters), have Blackstone do a UOA, and go from there!

 

[dwcopple]

All I know is that my '01 LHS with the 3.5L was the best car I ever owned. Never needed a repair in 65K+ miles and I regret ever selling it. That 3.5L throws out some mean HP and sounds good doing it too! I have been on the hunt for a nice low mileage Intrepid R/T 3.5L for sometime now. I just wish it had a timing chain instead of the belt. It is a PITA to change on that longitudinally mounted engine. As are serp belts.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

My 2000 Jeep 4.0 says 5w-30 or 10w-30.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: dwcopple
All I know is that my '01 LHS with the 3.5L was the best car I ever owned. Never needed a repair in 65K+ miles and I regret ever selling it. That 3.5L throws out some mean HP and sounds good doing it too! I have been on the hunt for a nice low mileage Intrepid R/T 3.5L for sometime now. I just wish it had a timing chain instead of the belt. It is a PITA to change on that longitudinally mounted engine. As are serp belts.


They are great cars.
I myself would love a 2003-2004 300M special edition. Easily the best looking car of the time, and very reliable too.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
All I know is that my '01 LHS with the 3.5L was the best car I ever owned. Never needed a repair in 65K+ miles and I regret ever selling it. That 3.5L throws out some mean HP and sounds good doing it too! I have been on the hunt for a nice low mileage Intrepid R/T 3.5L for sometime now. I just wish it had a timing chain instead of the belt. It is a PITA to change on that longitudinally mounted engine. As are serp belts.


They are great cars.
I myself would love a 2003-2004 300M special edition. Easily the best looking car of the time, and very reliable too.


What? Don't you know that all Chryslers are junk? (slow, too)

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
All I know is that my '01 LHS with the 3.5L was the best car I ever owned. Never needed a repair in 65K+ miles and I regret ever selling it. That 3.5L throws out some mean HP and sounds good doing it too! I have been on the hunt for a nice low mileage Intrepid R/T 3.5L for sometime now. I just wish it had a timing chain instead of the belt. It is a PITA to change on that longitudinally mounted engine. As are serp belts.


They are great cars.
I myself would love a 2003-2004 300M special edition. Easily the best looking car of the time, and very reliable too.


What? Don't you know that all Chryslers are junk? (slow, too)


Haha

I'm one of the local Chrysler supporters, but there are definitely a lot of haters no doubt.

 

[Topo]

I myself would love a 2003-2004 300M special edition. Easily the best looking car of the time, and very reliable too.[/quote]

Plenty of 300M's in Toledo, Ohio area. Even the special edition. It one of my favorite cars. I don't care if they are considered old, I still think they age well.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
My 2000 Jeep 4.0 says 5w-30 or 10w-30.


Which is part of the mystery- the Jeep 4.0 is a more "primitive" engine by far than the Chrysler 3.5/4.0, so why did it get the go-ahead for 5w30. Of course none of these ever got a 5w20 recommendation like some of the other contemporaries of the V6 4.0 and 3.5.