Mysterious Subaru Engine knock.

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I give you guys something to diagnose. Its been a real PITA finding it but the symptoms were screwy, i found it last night and will post a pic tonight.

96 Subaru EJ22 with hydraulic lifters engine knock.
less than 100K original, automatic with air. PS and FI.

Cold start knock is there sometimes not, sometimes louder than others. The knock is there warm at low RPM again sometimes louder than others.
Sometimes it is as loud as a rod but its not a rod or main, it it not piston slap as it comes and goes, it is not a piston pin (no double rap) and is not constant.
The knock a close as i can tell is coming from the rear of the engine on the drivers side.
This is not a tick but a real knock.

Check all accessory pulleys, did the required timing belt with all idlers and water pump.
Check lifters and found one not holding pressure, replaced all 16 (i had them). Rollers on rocker arms looked ok
Found slight leak at exhaust pipe to head, replaced both gaskets. Checked fly wheel, ok.

I checked the valve guides to see if one came loose, nada. Engine runs fine no CEL or performance issues. Used a timing light on the valve springs running, no valves sticking.

Used 0w40 and the knock got much worse cold.
Subaru listened and said its normal noise but i know its not and its been irritating me for a while.
Local Subaru specialist said its normal noise.
When i found it i couldn't believe it, no nothing fell in or came loose.

Have some fun and armchair diagnose.
 
Your Subaru dealer is correct. This noise is normal. Almost all 96-97 2.2L engines will have this knock. It is due to a shortening of the piston skirts. It will tap occasionally due to the heating of the cylinder bores or pistons. There are times when the piston will be "looser" in its bore and the skirt will tap lightly, causing your knock. My 97 that I had did it and it was completely fine. Some of the older technicians at the Subaru dealer I work at recalled that in cases where the noise was excessive and people complained, there were some service parts available (Different size pistons) that could make the noise better, but not eliminate it. I don't know if any of those parts are still available today. Honestly, I would drive the car and turn the radio up a little bit. That's what I did.
 
So this was something visual that is external to the engine? I was thinking this was the famous piston slap issue....

My guess would be a cracked flywheel or flexplate.
 
Originally Posted By: HyundaiGuy
Something stupid like the power steering pump?


No. All accessory drives are okay. Belt on or off makes no difference.
This drove me crazy.

Normal inspection did not reveal the culprit the first time. I also almost accepted the Subaru "experts" explanation that its normal but listening to engines for 40 yrs told me different.
 
Waiting on the answer is killing me!!!
smile.gif
 
um, not much there except the starter, CV joint down below, steering rack.

you never said when the knock occurs if stationary or when moving.

oil cooler line bumping into the steering joint.

i ran into this when doing an engine swap and had to bend some lines.
 
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minus the suspense, ethangsmith is absolutely correct.

my 97 started it at ~10,000 and consistently did for its whole life. 10-30 oil softened it. not audible warm, but always when cold. nuisance, but didn't seem to be problematic.
 
Originally Posted By: meep
minus the suspense, ethangsmith is absolutely correct.

my 97 started it at ~10,000 and consistently did for its whole life. 10-30 oil softened it. not audible warm, but always when cold. nuisance, but didn't seem to be problematic.


Not audible warm is the key. This one would knock like crazy sometimes warm but at the next start be quiet.
When i called for the part this AM i find out there are only 4 pieces left in the whole U.S. They are overnighting this one from Alaska otherwise its a week to 10 days away.

Edit: I don't say ethangsmith is not correct but not in this case. I am well aware of the piston slap issue, loose bores cold, exhaust valve guides coming loose, lifters leaking down etc.
 
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sounds like oil pressure related.

Occasional hydraulic lifter collapse or intermittent oil pressure retention issues? and/or oil pump not supplying consistent oil pressure due to faulty oil pressure regulation(that typical spring + piston configuration)?

Oil pressure would still be my guess.

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
sounds like oil pressure related.

Occasional hydraulic lifter collapse or intermittent oil pressure retention issues? and/or oil pump not supplying consistent oil pressure due to faulty oil pressure regulation(that typical spring + piston configuration)?

Oil pressure would still be my guess.

Q.


Oil pressure within spec, in fact its very good for this engine. I serviced the oil pump (replaced O ring and loctite the oil pump screws that are known to back out) when i did the belt and water pump.
The pressure relief valves and plugs are good in the rocker arm shafts. The shaft is straight as checked by dial indicator on V blocks.
This car has less than 100K and had a short block installed at 20K due to piston slap. Normally this engine was very quiet even on the coldest days.

Edit: The knock is 100% internal, no evap issues.
 
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Originally Posted By: Michael_P
Cam Phaser making noise as a result of bad temp sensor?

Not VVT, temp sensor fine.
See why this drove me crazy. LOL
 
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