JA, what do you prefer to use on your F150? From top to bottom how would you rate the top tier (synthetic) filters?
NAPA Platinum Oil Filter
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
But the Beta ratio listed shows the filter is 50% @ 6um and 95%@19 um. That's at the upper end of average, or the lower end of top tier.. whichever you prefer. Several competitors are 99%@20um or Beta 20=100. I think some are actually more like 98.67% @ 20 um, or 20=75
Thanks Jim! Those numbers look more reasonable.
But the Beta ratio listed shows the filter is 50% @ 6um and 95%@19 um. That's at the upper end of average, or the lower end of top tier.. whichever you prefer. Several competitors are 99%@20um or Beta 20=100. I think some are actually more like 98.67% @ 20 um, or 20=75
Thanks Jim! Those numbers look more reasonable.
Blue: My preferred filter is currently the Ultra and I have 3-5 of each sixe I use stockpiled for all vehicle/equipment (they are vacuum packed... remember?). Other Top Tiers (in no particular order) I would or have used, are: Royal Purple, Puro Syn and Wix XP. Why? 100 percent syn media, good construction, high efficiency (99% @ 20-25um) and high capacity (25+ grams for the size I use, though I am assuming the Wix is in that ballpark- don't have that data) . Why the Ultra? Just as good as the others for only 60% , or less, of the price.
Honorable mentions that jump into my mind would include P1, D+, M1 and Amsoil. Why are they not in my Top Tier ? Blended media and the resultant lower capacity. They are highly efficient, well constructed filters that I would happily use but since I am running long (15K+) OCI, I want the highest capacity filters I can get. The full syn media will generally have higher capacity in a given filter size package.
In the Average filter category, you can't beat an MC really, especially with a Ford. Wix (at least those without combo valves) same notation. Puro Classic looks good as well but I've never used one. Yes, I would use an orange can as well but I think the lowest cost Frams are overpriced for what they are. I am not afraid of fiber endcaps.
You asked!
Why didn't I put them all in order? I consider the two tiers more or less equals. From there it comes down to the price. When you can get an Ultra for under $10, that's where I'm headed. In the second tier, the P1 really stands out in the same way followed by the D+.. which you can often find on sale.
Honorable mentions that jump into my mind would include P1, D+, M1 and Amsoil. Why are they not in my Top Tier ? Blended media and the resultant lower capacity. They are highly efficient, well constructed filters that I would happily use but since I am running long (15K+) OCI, I want the highest capacity filters I can get. The full syn media will generally have higher capacity in a given filter size package.
In the Average filter category, you can't beat an MC really, especially with a Ford. Wix (at least those without combo valves) same notation. Puro Classic looks good as well but I've never used one. Yes, I would use an orange can as well but I think the lowest cost Frams are overpriced for what they are. I am not afraid of fiber endcaps.
You asked!
Why didn't I put them all in order? I consider the two tiers more or less equals. From there it comes down to the price. When you can get an Ultra for under $10, that's where I'm headed. In the second tier, the P1 really stands out in the same way followed by the D+.. which you can often find on sale.
JA, thanx for that reply.
I'm trying to decide if my OCI's would justify using the FU or any other top tier filter.
I was going to go back to M5K on my recent OCI but the PP price at WM, along with the rebates, was just too good of a deal to pass up. And, I had a MC filter on the shelf.
Now I have the $5 off my next Pennzoil purchase so I will most likely use the PYB and maybe a FU, NAPA Platinum, or P1.
Even if some think I should stretch my OCI to justify the use of a top tier filter my reason for using one is to get the cleanest oil through my engine with the best filter.
But, if you think MC will do the job along with my OCI's then MC it should be.
I'm trying to decide if my OCI's would justify using the FU or any other top tier filter.
I was going to go back to M5K on my recent OCI but the PP price at WM, along with the rebates, was just too good of a deal to pass up. And, I had a MC filter on the shelf.
Now I have the $5 off my next Pennzoil purchase so I will most likely use the PYB and maybe a FU, NAPA Platinum, or P1.
Even if some think I should stretch my OCI to justify the use of a top tier filter my reason for using one is to get the cleanest oil through my engine with the best filter.
But, if you think MC will do the job along with my OCI's then MC it should be.
I was told by a wise filter engineer at Filtran, "You can't have oil that's too clean."
Dave Newton makes compelling arguments that filtration below a "normal" threshold ( we'll call that around 94-95%@ 20um) does not result in "less wear" that can be measured on a macro level... with UOAs. That's likely true and I certainly have nothing to disprove his theory nor counter the evidence he presents. Still, I will go with the highest level of filtration I can buy within reason or budget. To me that means if I want to spend around $4 on a filter, I'll go for the P1 (99@20um) vs the MC (94%@20um)... all the usual caveats, yada, yada. You can extrapolate that to any OCI level or dollar budget.
Both he and I agree, and this has been proven on many levels, cleaner oil lasts longer in service because the additive package is depleted more slowly if the oil is kept clean. Maybe that means a 10K OCI vs a 7.5K and there may be the payback for the few extra bucks a premium filter costs. You have to use the extra capability to make it work for you, however.
As to location of the bypass, often touted as the major reason to go with the MC, more an more I see this as a non-issue because, as I was told repeatedly by several engineering types in the filter industry, bypass events are "uncommon" in the normal course of things. I've been watching my DP gauge setup for a few weeks now and have datalogged in several situations.. and the only time I have come remotely into the bypass area is on cold starts when I deliberately rev the engine pretty tight.... something I, and most of you, norally would not do. I got over 8psi DP only when I did a cold start, with oil temps in the mid 30F range and wound the engine up past 4000 rpm (5500 or so.. I hated doing it). The effect was magnified because I have 10W30 oil in the truck currently and the P1 filter has over 12K miles on it (less whizbang than it sounds because for 7K of that, I've had a bypass filter installed). It will be very interesting when I get 5W20 in it, with a new Ultra filter. In a perfect world,if I could get a full syn filter with efficiency at 99%@20um, or better, high capacity, premium features with a base end bypass for under $10.. I'd buy it. Alas...
Dave Newton makes compelling arguments that filtration below a "normal" threshold ( we'll call that around 94-95%@ 20um) does not result in "less wear" that can be measured on a macro level... with UOAs. That's likely true and I certainly have nothing to disprove his theory nor counter the evidence he presents. Still, I will go with the highest level of filtration I can buy within reason or budget. To me that means if I want to spend around $4 on a filter, I'll go for the P1 (99@20um) vs the MC (94%@20um)... all the usual caveats, yada, yada. You can extrapolate that to any OCI level or dollar budget.
Both he and I agree, and this has been proven on many levels, cleaner oil lasts longer in service because the additive package is depleted more slowly if the oil is kept clean. Maybe that means a 10K OCI vs a 7.5K and there may be the payback for the few extra bucks a premium filter costs. You have to use the extra capability to make it work for you, however.
As to location of the bypass, often touted as the major reason to go with the MC, more an more I see this as a non-issue because, as I was told repeatedly by several engineering types in the filter industry, bypass events are "uncommon" in the normal course of things. I've been watching my DP gauge setup for a few weeks now and have datalogged in several situations.. and the only time I have come remotely into the bypass area is on cold starts when I deliberately rev the engine pretty tight.... something I, and most of you, norally would not do. I got over 8psi DP only when I did a cold start, with oil temps in the mid 30F range and wound the engine up past 4000 rpm (5500 or so.. I hated doing it). The effect was magnified because I have 10W30 oil in the truck currently and the P1 filter has over 12K miles on it (less whizbang than it sounds because for 7K of that, I've had a bypass filter installed). It will be very interesting when I get 5W20 in it, with a new Ultra filter. In a perfect world,if I could get a full syn filter with efficiency at 99%@20um, or better, high capacity, premium features with a base end bypass for under $10.. I'd buy it. Alas...
So apparently Amsoil used to sell a 98.7%@15u filter but has gone (back?) to 98.7%@20u now. Is there anything else that gets better than 99@20 that isn't a bypass and is available at retail?
Hydraulic?
HD Diesel?
Hydraulic?
HD Diesel?
Yep, you're right. The Amsoil is 98.7@15, or thereabouts. Not to concerned about it because it's a syn blend, last I looked, not to mention expensive and not better constructed that any of the others. I also have in my mind the incident with Toyotas a few years back where this type and level of filtration was actually plugging up. That issue was as much the car's problem as anything but it does point out the pitfalls of a very efficient syn blend filter with low capacity. I suspect 99%@20um is probably the current everyday threshold anyway.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Yep, you're right. The Amsoil is 98.7@15, or thereabouts. Not to concerned about it because it's a syn blend, last I looked, not to mention expensive and not better constructed that any of the others. I also have in my mind the incident with Toyotas a few years back where this type and level of filtration was actually plugging up. That issue was as much the car's problem as anything but it does point out the pitfalls of a very efficient syn blend filter with low capacity. I suspect 99%@20um is probably the current everyday threshold anyway.
As far as I know, the Amsoil EaO filters have always been fully synthetic microglass media.
Yep, you're right. The Amsoil is 98.7@15, or thereabouts. Not to concerned about it because it's a syn blend, last I looked, not to mention expensive and not better constructed that any of the others. I also have in my mind the incident with Toyotas a few years back where this type and level of filtration was actually plugging up. That issue was as much the car's problem as anything but it does point out the pitfalls of a very efficient syn blend filter with low capacity. I suspect 99%@20um is probably the current everyday threshold anyway.
As far as I know, the Amsoil EaO filters have always been fully synthetic microglass media.
I installed a NAPA Platinum on the Honda. One thing I noticed was the oil light went out sooner during initial startup following oil change.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Yep, you're right. The Amsoil is 98.7@15, or thereabouts. Not to concerned about it because it's a syn blend, last I looked, not to mention expensive and not better constructed that any of the others. I also have in my mind the incident with Toyotas a few years back where this type and level of filtration was actually plugging up. That issue was as much the car's problem as anything but it does point out the pitfalls of a very efficient syn blend filter with low capacity. I suspect 99%@20um is probably the current everyday threshold anyway.
As far as I know, the Amsoil EaO filters have always been fully synthetic microglass media.
Thanks for challenging me on that. The image I have for an Ea filter must be old or something unusual because it shows a cellulose, blended media. It also shows a slightly better efficiency. I gotta do some research on this and find out how and when things changed.
The current website shows a wire backed, full synthetic media. It also lists 98.7% @ 20um and it looks more or less like a Fram Ultra in construction, though the bypass is built into the endcap rather than into the leaf spring. And it does have a leaf spring, by the way. The Amsoil filter for my 5.4L retails at $17.30. A Fram Ultra retails at $9.99. Frankly, I fail to see the extra $7+ in the specs or performance. Not knocking the Ea itself at all, just the cost.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Yep, you're right. The Amsoil is 98.7@15, or thereabouts. Not to concerned about it because it's a syn blend, last I looked, not to mention expensive and not better constructed that any of the others. I also have in my mind the incident with Toyotas a few years back where this type and level of filtration was actually plugging up. That issue was as much the car's problem as anything but it does point out the pitfalls of a very efficient syn blend filter with low capacity. I suspect 99%@20um is probably the current everyday threshold anyway.
As far as I know, the Amsoil EaO filters have always been fully synthetic microglass media.
Thanks for challenging me on that. The image I have for an Ea filter must be old or something unusual because it shows a cellulose, blended media. It also shows a slightly better efficiency. I gotta do some research on this and find out how and when things changed.
The current website shows a wire backed, full synthetic media. It also lists 98.7% @ 20um and it looks more or less like a Fram Ultra in construction, though the bypass is built into the endcap rather than into the leaf spring. And it does have a leaf spring, by the way. The Amsoil filter for my 5.4L retails at $17.30. A Fram Ultra retails at $9.99. Frankly, I fail to see the extra $7+ in the specs or performance. Not knocking the Ea itself at all, just the cost.
JA, would you EVER use a NAPA Platinum filter on your truck?
Since you are turning into a filteroholic, I think you should learn about bypass filtration and install one. That way, you'd be changing filters more than the oil and probably doing it more economically.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
I like the thought of an FL-1A fitting on my filter mount, except for the diameter being too large. I could hit the lip with a hammer (it's only about 3/16") to make it fit!
Or install an adaptor plate which might actually seal against the gasket. Why fix what isn't broken? Bypass would be an upgrade, not a fix.
I halfway wish I didn't have DI and the other handful of fun on my truck.
I halfway wish I didn't have DI and the other handful of fun on my truck.
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Bypass would be an upgrade, not a fix.
Honestly, if I had not become disabled I would have never started all this reading and getting more interested in oil and filters.
Now that I have all this time on my hands and am learning things more in detail it makes me want to go out there and do stuff like this, install a bypass system.
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Bypass would be an upgrade, not a fix.
Honestly, if I had not become disabled I would have never started all this reading and getting more interested in oil and filters.
Now that I have all this time on my hands and am learning things more in detail it makes me want to go out there and do stuff like this, install a bypass system.
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
... exactly. I guess all those guys with bypass systems and hoses running all over should now remove them.
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Yeah, but it's sparkling clean, bypass filtered old oil.
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Yeah, but it's sparkling clean, bypass filtered old oil.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Yep, you're right. The Amsoil is 98.7@15, or thereabouts. N
I am incorrect again. Amsoil currently advertises 98.7@ 20um, just like many other. It's a wire backed full syn lofted media like the others as well. Construction quality is the same as any of the other (leaf spring even) so I fail to see the incentive for the $17 price tag vs a <$10 Fram Ultra or Puro Syn. Or a $5 P1 for that matter!
Yep, you're right. The Amsoil is 98.7@15, or thereabouts. N
I am incorrect again. Amsoil currently advertises 98.7@ 20um, just like many other. It's a wire backed full syn lofted media like the others as well. Construction quality is the same as any of the other (leaf spring even) so I fail to see the incentive for the $17 price tag vs a <$10 Fram Ultra or Puro Syn. Or a $5 P1 for that matter!
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Yeah, but it's sparkling clean, bypass filtered old oil.
My bypass is higher than the outlet, so it drains out over a period of time. When I get the oil good and hot for a change and let the truck sit a while before I start dumping oil, by the time I get to the Bypass, it's pretty well empty.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Yeah, but it's sparkling clean, bypass filtered old oil.
My bypass is higher than the outlet, so it drains out over a period of time. When I get the oil good and hot for a change and let the truck sit a while before I start dumping oil, by the time I get to the Bypass, it's pretty well empty.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Yeah, but it's sparkling clean, bypass filtered old oil.
My bypass is higher than the outlet, so it drains out over a period of time. When I get the oil good and hot for a change and let the truck sit a while before I start dumping oil, by the time I get to the Bypass, it's pretty well empty.
If it's rubber hoses on your bypass you can always cut in a Pex type tee, at the lowest point, and plug it then pull the plug at drain time. Or, a short nipple and valve in the tee.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
But then I start thinking again; relocating the filter involves hoses and routing them somewhere. Leaving all that oil in those hoses when doing an oil change is like leaving a filter on the engine for (2) OCI's.
Yeah, but it's sparkling clean, bypass filtered old oil.
My bypass is higher than the outlet, so it drains out over a period of time. When I get the oil good and hot for a change and let the truck sit a while before I start dumping oil, by the time I get to the Bypass, it's pretty well empty.
If it's rubber hoses on your bypass you can always cut in a Pex type tee, at the lowest point, and plug it then pull the plug at drain time. Or, a short nipple and valve in the tee.
- Status
