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#2961485 - 04/03/13 07:17 PM Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6291
Loc: Texas
As I promised in another thread, I sent in a virgin sample of Pennzoil's 0w40 Ultra that is recommended for Chrysler SRT vehicles.

I'm sure its great for the modern roller-cammed SRT engines, but no way is this going in my vintage vehicles with only 600 and change PPM of phosphorous. I'll do a UOA at the end of a change interval and see if it shows the great viscosity stability that the other PU grades show.

Yes, I know that VOAs are somewhat akin to bench-racing and that only the results in use matter. That said, I'm still a little disappointed- they didn't take advantage of the fact that a 40-grade can have higher zinc and phosphorous numbers than lighter grades the way Mobil does for their 0w40. I guess it really is just narrowly targeted at the SRT vehicles, and its not going to give M1 0w40 a run for the BITOG 'if you had to have only 1 oil on your desert island...' award. I'll probably switch the SRT-8 over to M1 0w40 for commonality with the vintage cars. And besides, this stuff was practically a dealer-only item! ordered a case online and picked up the additional quart needed for the change (7 quarts with filter) at the Dodge dealer, at over $10/quart both places. M1 0w40 is finally showing up in large volumes everywhere and is typically $8/quart regular price and I've gotten it as low as $6/quart on sale.

_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#2961494 - 04/03/13 07:22 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
dave123 Offline


Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 1128
Loc: wi
M1 0w40 now at WM 5qt jug $24.97 making a every day price $5.00qt


Edited by dave123 (04/03/13 07:22 PM)

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#2961498 - 04/03/13 07:26 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: dave123]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6291
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: dave123
M1 0w40 now at WM 5qt jug $24.97 making a evert day price $5.00qt


PU is just not even trying for the market share against M1 in this grade. My unfounded speculation is that they cooked the 0w40 up solely because Chrysler needed a factory fill 0w40 for the SRT engines, and SOPUS has the marketing alliance with Chrysler. PU 0w40 doesn't carry any of the European vehicle ratings that M1 does. No mention of ANY ILSAC or ACEA rating whatsoever on the bottle. Just API SN and Chrysler MS-12633
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#2961503 - 04/03/13 07:29 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6291
Loc: Texas
Just for reference, here's a link to a thread with an M1 VOA:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2590418&page=1
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#2961505 - 04/03/13 07:30 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1290
Loc: USA
Additive package isn't as strong as lower grades in PU because the average 0W-40 consumer will be changing their oil more frequently.
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#2961524 - 04/03/13 07:47 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 147_Grain]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4277
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Additive package isn't as strong as lower grades in PU because the average 0W-40 consumer will be changing their oil more frequently.



How do you know that? That's pure speculation on the formulation and besides boron, this PU has a stronger additive package. More CA and moly, sorry but youre wrong and just talking without looking at the data.
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#2961557 - 04/03/13 08:10 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
edhackett Online   content


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1540
Loc: Sequim, WA
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

Yes, I know that VOAs are somewhat akin to bench-racing and that only the results in use matter. That said, I'm still a little disappointed- they didn't take advantage of the fact that a 40-grade can have higher zinc and phosphorous numbers than lighter grades the way Mobil does for their 0w40.


Well, it is SAE 30 after all. whistle

Bummer. What shows in this VOA isn't all that impressive.

Ed
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Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#2961604 - 04/03/13 08:56 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25712
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I guess it really is just narrowly targeted at the SRT vehicles, and its not going to give M1 0w40 a run for the BITOG 'if you had to have only 1 oil on your desert island...' award.

SOPUS already has an M1 0w-40 competitor: Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-40. It meets pretty much all the same mfg specs. So why would they come up with another M1 0w-40 competitor? I think that would just confuse the customers.

At retail level though, neither the PU 5w-40 nor the PU 0w-40 really competes with M1 0w-40 because you cannot find them on the store shelves.


Thanks for the VOA, by the way!
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (Spectro 15W-50)

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#2961608 - 04/03/13 08:59 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1290
Loc: USA
Not overly impressed either.

Makes me wonder if Exxon-Mobil is putting profits ahead of a quality product.

Here's some info on Mobil 1's 5W-30: http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/mobil1.htm
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2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
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#2961630 - 04/03/13 09:19 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 147_Grain]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4277
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Not overly impressed either.

Makes me wonder if Exxon-Mobil is putting profits ahead of a quality product.

Here's some info on Mobil 1's 5W-30: http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/mobil1.htm


M1 0w40 uses a different additive package and base oils than the regular line up.
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#2961633 - 04/03/13 09:22 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1290
Loc: USA
Perhaps so. I believe the price difference is only 50 cents per quart at Walmart. (0W-40 versus other more popular grades.)
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2013 Toyota Corolla LE
2012 Toyota Corolla LE
2005 Dodge Neon SXT

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#2961638 - 04/03/13 09:29 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 147_Grain]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25712
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Perhaps so. I believe the price difference is only 50 cents per quart at Walmart. (0W-40 versus other more popular grades.)

It's the same price.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (Spectro 15W-50)

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#2961640 - 04/03/13 09:30 PM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 147_Grain]
volk06 Offline


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 4277
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Perhaps so. I believe the price difference is only 50 cents per quart at Walmart. (0W-40 versus other more popular grades.)


Compare the voas/uoas. 0w40 has over 3000 CA, 250 boron, and a shot of moly. Regular uses a magnesium/calcium additive package with little boron and some moly.
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#2961876 - 04/04/13 08:09 AM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 440Magnum]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4222
Loc: Michigan
PU SRT 0w40 must have low Phosphorous because the OEM's all worry about cat life. Motorcraft 5w50 for the high-performance Mustangs is also low Phosphorous. The oils are formulated with extra Moly and/or Boron to make up the difference in anti-wear content.

And what's with the virgin KV100 reading of 12.26? That makes it a 30-weight.

Its TBN of 8.8 doesn't come close to M1 0w40, which is ~12.


Edited by A_Harman (04/04/13 08:13 AM)
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#2961923 - 04/04/13 09:11 AM Re: Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 / SRT, API SN [Re: 147_Grain]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6291
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Not overly impressed either.

Makes me wonder if Exxon-Mobil is putting profits ahead of a quality product.

Here's some info on Mobil 1's 5W-30: http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/mobil1.htm


I'm confused... we're talking about a SOPUS product (PU 0w40) being disappointing compared to an apparently better - as far as VOA's go - XOM product (M1 0w40).

In the specific application of my SRT's 392 Hemi, I'm sure the PU is fine, and perhaps better if its viscosity is more stable over time as some of the other grades of PU seem to be. Its awfully low to start with- 30-weight range- but maybe it STAYS there better than M1? My long term plan (it'll take a year unless I try this with 3k OCIs, which may not be long enough to show the effect) is to do a UOA on the PU after an OCI, and then repeat with M1 0w40 and look at viscosity change over time. I'd prefer to use M1 in the SRT just because I use it in the vintage cars, but if the PU is has a more stable viscosity that might make it better for the 392 in the long run.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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