Break Free CLP & Cu fouling

[Gabe]

I have been using Break Free CLP to clean a Sig MK25 pistol - normally running a couple patches wet with CLP down the barrel, then a dry one, then one damp with LP. Do I need to use another product to clean the copper fouling from the inside of the barrel??

The back of CLP states it breaks loose powder fouling, oil, grime, grease and corrosion that damage metal and displaces trapped grit. It does not mention copper or barrel specifically.

 

[skellyman]

Hoppes make a great copper removing product.

 

[Win]

I clean mine every time I shoot, and just use Rem oil and cotton patches and visually inspect the barrel to make sure it's clean.

Do I need to be doing something more?

 

[Tempest]

Copper is not typically as bad in pistols as it is in rifles, but it can build up over time. I see no reason to de-copper every cleaning.

My favorite copper removal products are the foaming types. They work well and are easy to use.

 

[anonobomber]

Sweets 7.62 cleaner removes copper fouling very well.

 

[SuperDave456]

The only reason that you would need to de-copper a pistol is if you ran competitions with it every weekend, and trained during the week.
Even then, if you did it once every 6 months you'd be better off than most.

I remember an article from the mid 90's that I read about some "new" sig that had come out. The author and friends had something like 10 magazines for the pistol, and spent a couple weeks placing 50,000 rounds downrange. (this is back when a $160 would buy a 1,000 rounds of Winchester White Box 9mm Ammo)

(We can talk about the DE-valuation of the American dollar later.)

Anyways, they fired groups with the Ammo before hand right out of the box, again after shooting, then again after a really through cleaning.
After the "torture test" they cleaned the pistol very well, including making sure the copper fouling was taken care of.

At 25 yards, the pistol did group slightly better after the cleaning.

That being said, 10,000 rounds is WAY more than most pistols will ever see.
Even Police trade ins with their Holster Worn exterior and pristine barrels and firing mechanisms, Haven't gotten to 10,000 rounds.

My recommendation would be to take a look, if it is a used pistol clean it once really well, then just stick to your CLP. It is good stuff, and about the only thing I do with my pistols.

New pistols it really isn't needed unless you do some high volume shooting, or you want a really clean pistol before you put it away.

The only other thing I do is wipe them down really well with CLP-Collector if I'm not going to shoot them for awhile.

 

[Gabe]

Thanks for the replies; I guess I am just used to rifles.

 

[Astro14]

Gabe - I just want to go on record and say; Thank You! This the first thread in a while in the "Firearms: lubes, cleaners and maintenance" that is actually about lubes, cleaners and maintenance.

The rest of this category has become about political arguments...

 

[bsmithwins]

CLP will not react with copper or brass. Not corroding copper and brass is part if the spec that CLP has to pass to be qualified.

BSW

 

[JPQ]

There are 3 types of fouling that you have to deal with.

1. Copper, from the jacket
2. Lead, from the core of the projectile. If the bullet has an exposed lead base.
3. Powder fouling, from the powder being consumed during firing.


Copper fouling takes a while to get to the point where you need to deal with it. If using bullets with an exposed lead base lead fouling will be present also. Powder fouling will be present because of the powder being consumed at the time of firing.


When you see accuracy drop off is when it is typically time to clean a barrel.


More accuracy loss is because of damage done by cleaning a barrel incorrectly than by being worn out from firing.

There are specific cleaners for each type of fouling.

Typically ammonia will remove copper fouling. Sweets 7.62 solvent is one of the copper removers that people use. There are many others for just copper likes sweets, but copper solvent will not remove powder fouling or lead fouling.

So you will need to find a product that will remove lead fouling if using exposed base bullets and another cleaner for power fouling.

Hoppes #9 is a nitro solvent and removes powder fouling. Hoppes also makes a different hoppes that is a lead remover.

CLP is ok. If you know that C L P stand for Cleaner, Lubricant, and Protectant. It does all three. But you must also understand that it has some trade offs because it does all three. But how well can a cleaner act as a lubricant? Or a lubricant as protectant? It does all three but it doesn't do all three well.

So it is best to have a dedicated cleaner (or cleaners) for you firearm and a dedicated lubricant and possibly a dedicated protectant.

I use blue wonder gun cleaner on my barrels. It's has a very good copper remover (ammonia) and power solvent. It has no lubricant at all. It will take lead out too, but it is not the best at that. I don't shoot lead bullets or exposed lead base bullets so not a big deal for me.

Blue wonder is really easy to use to.

Btw the very best lead removers are actually metal screens that you push down the barrel to scrape the lead out.

For a lubricant I have been using shooters choice fp10 for years on my rifles and Brian Enos slide glide in my handguns. Slide glide is a grease. A very light coating at the shiny spots is enough to keep them running with out malfunctions.

As a protectant is do use CLP as that seems to be where it shines the best, it does a great job of protecting the metal.

That is just my take on gun cleaning. I carry a gun everyday. So if I need it, I need it to work.

Btw, I just started trying frog lube on my rifle today and the verdict is still out on that for me. I ran a good 500rds today in a rifle class and it seems to hold up well. I'm going to run it again tomorrow for probably another 500 to 1000 rds and see how it holds up. Temps today were in the mid 90 and tomorrow will be hotter.

Hope that helps!

 

[Mr_Incredible]

The cleaning regimine I use was retrieved from an ancient cuniform tablet. I think it still applies to long guns and pistols...

1. Wet patch down the barrel. Hoppes #9.
2. Wet bronze brush down the barrel and back. Repeat as required. Hoppes #9.
3. Dry patch(es) down the barrel.
4. Repeat #3 and #4 as required for the type of ammo and desired cleanliness.
5. Oil patch down the barrel and continue with rest of firearm.

I have some copper cleaner but hardly ever use it. I think the big thing is to simply clean your pistols regularly and take the oppoortunity to inspect for wear, breakage, and visible trends. I like to spend the time just because I enjoy machinery, and I get to spend time at the work bench.

There are those that don't clean their guns for many thousands of rounds. I think they are some very busy individuals, indeed, or they are making the not-cleaning as much of a hobby as the good-cleaning bunch are doing theirs.

 

[matt711]

Very well put. All in one products dont perform as well as those dedicated to a single task.

I can get all the CLP I want (In the Army) but spend my own money on quality products to clean my M4 at work. Sweets or Hoppes to remove fouling. Slip 2000 to remove carbon, and Mercon ATF for lube. Lots of AR shooters mix ATF and Synthetic car oil 50/50. It does a great job of preventing carbon build up.

Matt

 

[AMC]

CLP is only really a "field" cleaner, when you have nothing else with you to clean. If you want faster, easier, "deeper" cleaning at the bench, there are so many better options. Us BITOG posters really like MMO and Kroil, those are both excellent general purpose gun cleaners. For copper fouling and heavy duty bore cleaning, Barnes CR-10 is the best I have found. It has a lot of ammonia for copper removal but also removes lead and powder fowling also. I have heard good things about bore tech eliminator but never tried it.
Pistols should not need the heavy copper removers very frequently anyhow. Just keep that sig reasonably clean and lubed and everything will be just dandy!

 

[Mystic]

AMC, I have not seen you for a while. How is your research into CorrosionX coming? Do you still recommend it as a CLP?

I have been using Breakfree CLP and Birchwood Casey Synthetic gun oil with PTFE combined.

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
AMC, I have not seen you for a while. How is your research into CorrosionX coming? Do you still recommend it as a CLP?

I have been using Breakfree CLP and Birchwood Casey Synthetic gun oil with PTFE combined.


CorrosionX is still good to go. My testing of the original corrosionX is pretty much complete and I am sold on it at this point. It does seem that the original corrosionX has gone through a slight formula change because it is now yellow in color and smells slightly stronger. The good news is the performance of it hasn't seemed to have changed. I am now onto testing the corrosionX avation and heavy duty formulas and they are proving excellent so far also.
For making a general purpose cleaner, I originally recommended a mixture of CorrosionX and Odorless Mineral Spirits at a 1/10 ratio. I have come to the conclusion that 2.5oz of CorrosionX to 10 oz OMS makes for a better general cleaner. The mixture is a richer, more oily cleaner with less of a degreasing effect and leaves behind a very light coat of corrosion x once the OMS evaporates. Like the other general cleaners, It doesn't do much for copper fouling but does do a good job on soot, powder and carbon fouling as well as being a good general purpose grime and gunk remover.

 

[SOHCman]

The thing about clp is that the cleaner evaporates and leaves behind the excellent lube and preservative. There is no eternal cleaner thwarting the lube or anything like that.