Newly balanced tires now squeaking

[Built_Well]

I usually get all my work done at the Toyota dealership, but I thought I'd save some money this time, and have Sam's Club balance my tires. I had bought 4 Yokohama directional tires from my dealership last year because the tires included free lifetime rotation. Low and behold, I come to learn last month that the balancing is NOT free at the dealership--just the rotation is free. In fact balancing 4 tires would cost $60 at the dealership, or the "cut-rate" of $40 for me since I bought all 4 tires at the dealership. Nice cut-rate, ay? Sam's Club offers both free tire rotation AND balancing when you buy the tires at Sam's.

Here's the rub. Maybe the quality of work performed on Toyota cars is greater at the Toyota dealership than at any other non-Toyota automotive place, since the dealer's techs work just on Toyotas all day long. I say this because within a day or two of having Sam's Club rotate and balance my 4 tires for just $15 total, at least one of my wheels started to squeak when I would apply the brakes. My wheels never, ever used to squeak. Now one or more squeak from 20 percent to 50 percent of the time whenever I apply my brakes.

Does it sound like the two young 20-something technicians at Sam's Club who rotated and balanced my tires may have done something wrong by mistake? I did see them apply some weights to one or two tires. One tire had two differently shaped weights applied to it. Maybe an error was made. It's just so odd that within a day or two of their work, one or more tires have started squeaking. I think it's just the passenger front tire that's squeaking, which is one of the tires they applied weights to. But it could be other tires squeaking too--I haven't determined yet exactly which tire(s) are the squeakers when braking, but the squeaking happens from 20 to 50 percent of the time when braking.

I usually never have the tires re-balanced when rotating, but several months ago, I had a flat within the first 2 or 3,000 miles with these tires, and the hole was plugged, so last Friday I thought I'd have the tires re-balanced when rotated at Sam's since the dealership would have charged $40 to $60 for the balancing.

Also, is there some inexpensive contraption I can buy to balance the tires myself? Thanks.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well

Here's the rub. Maybe the quality of work performed on Toyota cars is greater at the Toyota dealership than at any other non-Toyota automotive place, since the dealer's techs work just on Toyotas all day long. I say this because within a day or two of having Sam's Club rotate and balance my 4 tires for just $15 total, at least one of my wheels started to squeak when I would apply the brakes. My wheels never, ever used to squeak. Now one or more squeak from 20 percent to 50 percent of the time whenever I apply my brakes.



A Toyota tire and rim are the same as any other. The Toyota dealer puts newbies on tire & lube work, same as Sam's. In fact Sams & Walmart are probably more liability minded as far as proper torque, etc.

Quote:


Does it sound like the two young 20-something technicians at Sam's Club who rotated and balanced my tires may have done something wrong by mistake? I did see them apply some weights to one or two tires. One tire had two differently shaped weights applied to it. Maybe an error was made. It's just so odd that within a day or two of their work, one or more tires have started squeaking. I think it's just the passenger front tire that's squeaking, which is one of the tires they applied weights to. But it could be other tires squeaking too--I haven't determined yet exactly which tire(s) are the squeakers when braking, but the squeaking happens from 20 to 50 percent of the time when braking.



I used to work in a tire store and chuckled at the customers who stood in the waiting room window and stared at the techs working. It was particularly funny when I'd call another tech over and we'd point at something, like a loose tie-rod end, which I'd record on a clipboard, very business like. You sound like a gawker. Also it was usually Toyotas who brought out the gawkers.

Anyway, they are transitioning to lead-free weights, so you'll see some in different shapes. If you have aluminum rims there are half a dozen "flange profiles" that call for different shaped weights as well.
Quote:

Also, is there some inexpensive contraption I can buy to balance the tires myself? Thanks.


I picked up a used snap-on balancer one spins themselves (not motorized) for $400 for my home garage use. You DO NOT WANT a bubble balancer, it's only a "static balance"-- not as good, and easy to screw up. A pro balancer does a dynamic, or two-plane balance, that tells the operator to put weights on the inside, or out, or both.

And to answer your million dollar question, when your wheels were off the car, the brake rotors weren't pinched against the hub by the torque of the lug nuts. This either shook loose some rust which will work itself out, or you had marginal brakes to begin with and this put them over the edge-- shook the pad around and its "squeaker" is now scraping the rotor. Imagine a little fingernail, they put these on pads to announce you're down to 10% lining.

 

[rshaw125]

Brakes squeaking, yes. Never heard of tires squeaking.I've never had tires rebalanced unless they lost a wheel weight.

 

[Nyquist]

Weirdest thing I've ever seen squeak was an inside tie-rod end when the front was under load during turns & hard braking.

Most likely it's your brakes squeaking due to dust if it is only when you apply them. A garden hose to the caliper should alleviate most of it. I'll be you see a whole bunch of dirt come out.

 

[Doog]

Go to a $2 spray car wash and wash all 4 of your wheels and rinse well. Then if they are still squeaking, have the brake pads inspected.

 

[HerrStig]

Figure out WHY the "tires" are squeaking before going off on tangents.

 

[LeakySeals]

I run those tires on the Camry. Never again. Not because they were bad tires, because I can't perform a 4-wheel rotation for maximum tire life. Assume they know to keep directional tires on the same sides (front to rear) and didn't reverse rotation moving them to the other side. You have ceramic pads so I can't imagine brake dust magically appearing at tire swap. Assuming they rotated the tires correctly I'd be tightening the lugs first. If you have aluminum rims they can loosen up. Maybe the installer smacked your caliper installing the tire upsetting the pad(s) or the wear indicator. Or by coincidence its time for brake pads.

 

[FZ1]

Always buy from a tire store with free lifetime balance and rotation. I use DT down here.

 

[Built_Well]

Thanks for the great help. I'll reply in chronological order:

================
Eljefino wrote:
"A Toyota tire and rim are the same as any other. The Toyota dealer puts newbies on tire & lube work, same as Sam's. In fact Sams & Walmart are probably more liability minded as far as proper torque, etc."
================

Eljefino, that's so true that Sam's and Walmart are more conscientious about properly torquing the lug nuts than Toyota dealers. The Toyota dealers I've dealt with don't use a torque wrench unless you request it, which I do. 76 psi.

I guess on the dealer's side though is their tech's long experience with Toyota cars. Once a few years ago when I had Walmart rotate my tires, they broke small pieces off the wheel covers because the techs weren't experienced with the right way to remove the covers. The dealer's techs see those Camry wheel covers several times a day, and so they won't accidentally chip them and make small holes in them. Cost of replacement wheel covers: $20 to $40, so I didn't save any money going to Walmart that time.

Thanks for the interesting diagnosis. Hopefully, it's just that.

================
Nyquist wrote:
"Most likely it's your brakes squeaking due to dust if it is only when you apply them. A garden hose to the caliper should alleviate most of it. I'll be you see a whole bunch of dirt come out."
================

Nyquist, my garden hose is still hibernating indoors, but I'll remember to use it if the squeaking persists. Good news though. What a difference a day makes. Today the squeaking when braking was much, much reduced--maybe the squeaking happened just 10 percent of the time or less. Not at all as loud or frequent as yesterday.

================
Doog wrote:
"Go to a $2 spray car wash and wash all 4 of your wheels and rinse well. Then if they are still squeaking, have the brake pads inspected."
================

Will keep that in mind too, especially if the hose stays inside longer due to cool weather.

================
LeakySeals wrote:
"I run those tires on the Camry. Never again. Not because they were bad tires, because I can't perform a 4-wheel rotation for maximum tire life. Assume they know to keep directional tires on the same sides (front to rear) and didn't reverse rotation moving them to the other side."
================

LeakySeals, the full name of my tires are the Yokohama Avid TRZ. Wow, these seem to handle so much better than the factory Goodyears. On the positive side, the Goodyears lasted over 6 years, IIRC. Saw some Michelins a few months ago at Sam's Club that had a higher treadwear number than my Yokohamas for about the same price, although the Michelins weren't directional or semi-directional. No worries about the techs accidentally remounting the wheels to the wrong side. I was able to watch them through the big bay window. One tech handled the left side and the other tech the right. My car was in and out of Sam's Club fast.

================
FZ1 wrote:
"Always buy from a tire store with free lifetime balance and rotation. I use DT down here."
================

I will keep Discount Tire in mind next time, and do more shopping around, like NTB (National Tire and Battery) and Big O Tires. A high treadwear number is my number one consideration when buying tires--even more than handling.

Hopefully, the squeaking will continue lessening with each passing day.

 

[sxg6]

I think it's just a coincidence and the weather is causing your brake squeaking. I'd just relube the pads if its bothering you. My brakes have been a little noisy lately as well out of nowhere, comes and goes with the weather, I might relube mine sometime.

 

[Russell]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Go to a $2 spray car wash and wash all 4 of your wheels and rinse well. Then if they are still squeaking, have the brake pads inspected.

Be careful. If the brakes/rotors are hot you can warp the rotors with a cold spray of water

 

[Built_Well]

Russell wrote:
"Be careful. If the brakes/rotors are hot you can warp the rotors with a cold spray of water."
===============

Ooh, that sounds like such good advice. What's the maximum number of miles you should drive before the brakes/rotors heat up too much for the car wash's wheel spray?

 

[Russell]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Russell wrote:
"Be careful. If the brakes/rotors are hot you can warp the rotors with a cold spray of water."
===============

Ooh, that sounds like such good advice. What's the maximum number of miles you should drive before the brakes/rotors heat up too much for the car wash's wheel spray?


Not easy to answer. It relates to how often you use the brakes. I would say if they were hot and waited 10 minutes you should be ok.

Also, If you take your car through a full service car wash It takes about that long as they clean the mats etc in prep to run it through. I have never heard any issue with warped rotors from a full service car wash. However, I bet there are.

 

[Papa Bear]

People drive through puddles all the time with hot brakes.

If a Martinsville Cup Car was to be sprayed the rotors may warp as they are glowing red.

I have returned from driving to/in the city and parked the van in the driveway and washed it. Never a problem.

All the best.

Bob

 

[Russell]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
People drive through puddles all the time with hot brakes.

If a Martinsville Cup Car was to be sprayed the rotors may warp as they are glowing red.

I have returned from driving to/in the city and parked the van in the driveway and washed it. Never a problem.

All the best.

Bob

Do What you want, but I believe that rotors can warp from cold water. Perhaps warpage only happens when they are worn and very thin. Perhaps it is the way certain rotors are designed. Who knows.

 

[Ken2]

It is hard to warp cast iron, and especially hard to warp the double layer ventilated discs usually on the fronts. (No, most so-called warped brake rotors are as true as the day they were made, but they have uneven pad deposits on them causing the brake judder.)

Wheels don't squeak. Sometimes the wheel covers squeak, if you have wheel covers. Tires don't squeak.

Brakes squeak due to being worn down to the squealer piece built into the brake pad, or because the steel backing plate is vibrating at very high speed against the caliper. Or perhaps there is some foreign matter in the brakes.

I've had the need to rebalance wheels once. Weights can come off--that's the reason for lead free weights. Tire weights that get thrown off get ground into dust on the highway, then the toxic lead dust washes off into the soil and water.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: Ken2

Wheels don't squeak. Sometimes the wheel covers squeak, if you have wheel covers. Tires don't squeak.


That's not entirely true as improperly installed wheels can squeak. I know this to be true because a few times over the years I have found a squeak to be caused by an improperly installed wheel. With excessive corrosion at the hub the wheel can be sitting crooked on the hub (yes, with the lugs all torqued to spec.) and able to sort-of rock a little as the car rolls. Ill-fitting aftermarket wheels can have the same problem without the corrosion build-up. If allowed to remain like this for too long the studs will crack one at a time. In any case, this produces a squeak-squeak-squeak like a wheel cover more than a squeeeeeeeak like a brake wear indicator.

If it's a front wheel, I speculate this could happen under the heavier load of braking but have never seen that specific scenario.

Edit:
Some Toyotas with ill-fitting factory steelies can also have this problem even with the wheel put on "the way you're supposed to do it" due to poor fitment. Pretty much if you can't push the wheel on all the way without relying on the lugs to pull them on there is some potential for this to happen.

 

[Built_Well]

Well, things are even better today--less and less squeaking than the day before, but still a little squeaking (maybe 3 to 5 percent of the time now when applying the breaks). So it's a lot better, but obviously some squeaking is not as good as no squeaking. For 6 years, I had no squeaking until the Sam's Club balancing last week.

Interesting: when the brakes begin to squeak, if I take my foot off the brake pedal for a split second, and then reapply the brakes, the squeaking usually disappears.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Well, things are even better today--less and less squeaking than the day before, but still a little squeaking (maybe 3 to 5 percent of the time now when applying the breaks). So it's a lot better, but obviously some squeaking is not as good as no squeaking. For 6 years, I had no squeaking until the Sam's Club balancing last week.

Interesting: when the brakes begin to squeak, if I take my foot off the brake pedal for a split second, and then reapply the brakes, the squeaking usually disappears.


I think this means that the problem is grit that got loosen during the demount/mount process and is gradually disappearing.

So while it was caused by the change in tires, it was part fo what happens and basically unavoidable. In other words, not the shop's fault.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
It is hard to warp cast iron, and especially hard to warp the double layer ventilated discs usually on the fronts. (No, most so-called warped brake rotors are as true as the day they were made, but they have uneven pad deposits on them causing the brake judder.)

Wheels don't squeak. Sometimes the wheel covers squeak, if you have wheel covers. Tires don't squeak.

Brakes squeak due to being worn down to the squealer piece built into the brake pad, or because the steel backing plate is vibrating at very high speed against the caliper. Or perhaps there is some foreign matter in the brakes.

I've had the need to rebalance wheels once. Weights can come off--that's the reason for lead free weights. Tire weights that get thrown off get ground into dust on the highway, then the toxic lead dust washes off into the soil and water.


I just wanted to comment that I have seen wheels squeak, I have seen tires squeak. Various reasons. But there's one that comes to mind.

The tire company I work for received a complaint about wheels/tires squeaking on a particular vehicle from a particular car dealer in southwest Canada (just north of Vancouver). To document the complaint they sent a video. They did this through the vehicle manufacturer and returned a set of tires and wheels for us to examine. That dealership had had several complaints and they noticed that the tire was abrading the alloy wheel flange, creating shards of aluminum that squeaked as the tire rolled. Clean out the shards and the squeak disappears - for a while. It comes back when enough new shards are created.

We pointed out to the vehicle manufacturer that the tire was made out of rubber and the wheel was made out of metal and rubber shouldn't abrade metal unless there was something wrong with the metal. We also pointed out that we supply literally millions of tires a year with the same rubber compound and theirs was the only combination where this issue surfaced. We also pointed out that the complaint was highly isolated and that perhaps the problem was salt being deposited between the tire and the wheel. We suggested they look at metal hardness of the wheel or the contour of the flange.

Never heard back.

But we did note that from time to time there would be isolated cases of these types of squeak/shards issues, but always isolated both to a particular vehicle and usually to a particular location near the ocean.