Briggs and Stratton NGK for hard starting?

[oilboy123]

My parents have a Lawn Boy that is very hard to start since new. My sister also has a Sears mower that she has a hard time starting as well. The tech always tells her that's the way they are.....The Lawn Boy takes a RJ19LM Champion plug.

Has anybody used NGKs or something besides Champion that has helped their hard starting woes? I'm open to anything at this point

 

[ChrisW]

Yes! I have a 4HP YardMachines lawn mower that I was using Champion RJ19LM plugs on, I even went for the fancy upgraded 'easy-start' one once which didn't help, and when I bought an NGK regular plug, primed it properly (and relatively fresh gas), it always starts on the first pull now. Just as I'm a big fan of NGK in my cars, I believe that the small engine segment can and does work well with NGK plugs.

I think i got my RJ19LM NGK equivalent on Amazon for $1.xx and some change (I have prime shipping so shipping was free).

 

[ChrisW]

NGK B2LMY non-resistor on Amazon looks like the price has certainly gone up since I last purchased these. These are the ones I put on my small engine. As for the non-resistor when the factory has resistor, I did not notice any unusual interference when I used the non-resistor. I guess I'd just choose whatever J19LM version was cheapest from NGK, resistor or not. I like the V-version better, perhaps that had a bigger difference versus the non-V design of either NGK or Champion's regular plugs.

Here is the non-V resistor version: NGK BR2LM on Amazon

 

[NHGUY]

Champion now has an Iridium Easy Start plug.Dont know how well it works.
There's a video on You Tube about them.

 

[yeehaw1960]

The difference between Champion and NGK is miniscule. I buy about 50 of whichever is cheaper at the beginning of each season. Look for a different problem if your mower is hard starting. Of course, it's a different story with cars. I remember the guy offering to sell me his 1964 Chevrolet on the cheap until I told him Champion plugs were why his engine sounded like it was ready to throw up.

 

[Nick R]

I use the platinum tip NGK plugs in my ope and they work great. Well, except the leaf blower and weed eater. They don't like them for some reason, and only run well on champion plugs.

 

[JimPghPA]

To the OP:

While some attention to what type of spark-plug is used might help cold starting a little, you could probably have much more of an effect of making your OPE easier to start by paying attention to weather the gas is fresh or not, and also taking better care of the carburetors.

Regarding fuel, one of the best ways to tell if the fuel is still any good is to simply open the cap of the fuel container, be it the cap of the fuel tank on the equipment, or the fuel jug you take to the gas station, and find out if you can smell gasoline when you are several feet away from that open container. It sounds a little cruel, but when I open a fuel can on the front porch on a summer day with the windows of the hours opened, and someone in the house complains about the smell of gasoline shortly after that, I know that the gasoline is definitely fresh enough and that any equipment I put that gas in is going to start easy and run well.

As for the carburetor there are two schools of thought. One says to use a fuel stabilizer such as Sta-Bil or Red-Line SL1, fuel treatment and leave the carb have gas in it. The other school of thought is to get the carb dry by running the engine with the fuel shut off, and very importantly ALLOW THE ENGINE TO COOL OFF so you will not have a gasoline fire if some spills, and with the engine cooled off drain the carb bowl. The last fuel that was in it should have some fuel treatment in it so that there will be a film of that treatment left on the metal parts of the carburetor. I then spray the idle air hole and the rest of the parts of the carb with WD-40.

Carburetors of small engines have an idle air hole that is a very small hole somewhere where the air first enters the carburetor, usually on the floor of the air passage just behind the choke plate, or on the surface that the input gasket goes against and there will be a notch in the input gasket to allow air into this small hole. This idle air hole tends to close up because the ethanol in the fuel leaves a film of ethanol on this metal and ethanol attracts moisture from the air and then turns into acitic-acid (also know as vinegar). And while this is a mild acid, over time it does damage the metal and cause it to close the idle air hole. So you really want to protect this idle air hole by spraying some WD-40 into it before you put the engine away for a while.

You should then lightly pull the start rope slowly and stop pulling when the piston compressing the air in the cylinder causes some resistance to pulling the rope. (I would also, first pull the spark plug and spray some Sta-Bil foaming cylinder treatment in the spark-plug hole, or at least put a tea-spoon of oil in the spark plug hole, and pull the rope a few times with a clean rag or clean paper towel over the spark-plug hole), then I would then put the spark-plug back in and pull the rope lightly and stop on a compression.

Stopping on a compression means the valves are closed and therefore the valve springs are not fully compressed like they are when a valve is open. And with the valves closed humidity in the air can not cause condensation to occur in the cylinder.

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So along with paying attention to the spark-plug, fresh fuel, and a carburetor that is in good shape will help in making an engine on you OPE easy to start.

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If that OPE is a snow-blower an oil that remains thin when cold such as GC (Castrol 0W-30 European formula), or Shell Rotella T6 5W-40, Mobil 0W-40, and a couple of other 0W or 5W oils will flow well when cold and allow your engine to rotate faster when you pull the rope.

 

[oilboy123]

Thanks for the info. I'm a stickler for fresh gas and keeping the motors stored etc. It's just an inherent problem of some of the newer mowers Briggs and Stratton engines to be hard starting.

 

[Quest]

to OP: spark plugs on a B&S flat head engine makes very little difference so long as it sparks (had enough experiences with B&S so far).

Don't waste time on exotic plugs for you will not see any benefits from it (on these magnetron type ignition, a spark is a spark is a spark, period)

Information missing (in order to further the discussions) as follows:

(1) what type of craftsman mower is it ? a B&S flathead? if so, try to get the serial number off of the stamping metal plate to further determine it's carb type and such.

(2) for auto-choke type walbro LMS carb, fault is mostly on the engine valve clearances and not the carb (unless the carb is plugged). Same may be applicable to those push 3x to prime type also but less so due to the lack of the mechanical thermal sensor (to regulate the choke plate).

(3) a plugged carb may also lead to hard starting, fuel stabiliser is a must on these side-drafted carb.

Is the mower 2yrs or less? if so, bring it back and complain. She might get a replacement ones that work.

Q.

 

[oilboy123]

Update: When I went to start it today it started right up....

I'm working with the Lawn Boy Model 10641 20 inch

Briggs manual shows Model 120000 It's a flathead model with side draft carb. It is some kind of auto choke. Not sure how it works though. Ready start I believe.

I sprayed some Amsoil power foam and run it with stabilizer in the gas. I just cleaned the plug and filed regapped it till I can get a new one. It looked kind of darker than I would have liked.

 

[oilboy123]

Maybe the plug is getting fouled. But I remember it being hard to start from the get go.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Does that Briggs have the "auto choke" and primerless carburetor on it? (I hate those things...)

You may need to pull the cover off the engine to see if the choke is operating correctly. These go bad quite often in my experience.

Try this next time the engine is hard to start. Take the spark plug out and dip it in fuel. If it starts right up afterwards, it's likely the choke is faulty.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Maybe the plug is getting fouled. But I remember it being hard to start from the get go.


Let's just hope that those amsoil power foam cleared your carb.

As for spark plugs on B&S flatheads, I opt for a fresh Champion RJ19LM (or 5861). I've used exotic plugs as well as NGK before, no difference whatsoever (other than making your wallet lighter).

yes, those side-draft carb with auto-choke is a major pain in the rear...(* got one sitting in my garage waiting to be fixed, 2nd one on my 2-do list*)

Q.

 

[Quest]

@Hokiefyd,

You are right about the fact that late model B&S flatheads, some do come with primerless, auto-choked carb types. While in general it's not that bad of a thing (good idea that over time, becomes a nightmare), the unfortunate thing is, of all the auto-choked B&S that I serviced so far (2nd one received, waiting for headgasket kits, etc.) all of them associated with valve clearance issues (causing hardstarts when hot, intake valve popping, etc.) and the ready-start fuel stabiliser will cause further gumming of the intake valve and seat part.

The ones that I restored for friends, etc. I advise them against the use of the B&S fuel tank cap style fuel stabiliser cartridge, but go with sta-bil instead (or B&S variants, which I also have and use every now and then). It's easier to control the portion to add to the jerry can and much cleaner (no gumming over time) that those that came with that built-in drip cartridge...

My 2cents on B&S autochoke...I personally like it when it's fully functional (both hot and cold), but when they start to misbehave, they are the biggest nightmare to deal with.

Q.

 

[oilboy123]

I will keep on with the Stabil etc. Put in new champion plug as well. If I still have a problem I will check into the choke. Hopefully I can find info online if and when I need it.

Just knowing the choke is problematic lets me know I'm not alone.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Quest]

Thx so much for your sharing, JimPghPA! Excellent advice.

@oilboy: the 120000series B&S is (if memory serves), those darm B&S 675 series that the autochoked carb tends to be a pain..

clean the carb well, install a 150 micron mesh fuel filter (see my posting on the fix RE: 127K model B&S 675 series on the Ethanol posting (I fixed last year).

If you are careful enough, undo the walbro carb fuel bowl's screw and drain the bowl (after you installed fuel filter). See if you can detect some moisture and debris mixed in the fuel. Drain it well, rinse it with carb cleaner and then wipe it dry and clean with lint-free paper towel...

Re-install and then try again.

If hard starting happens when hot, listen to the carb (intake part) with air-filter off while pulling the rope....if you hear slight popping sound from intake, then the engine is suffering from more or less the same issues like I've been solving for my friends....gummed up intake valve seats, which altered the valve lash clearances on the engine...the only way to resolve this is to get a full B&S overhaul kit (with cyl head gasket, valve chamber retangular gasket, etc. pull off the cylinder head, undo the side chamber (you must undo the muffler first in order to access the valve chamber behind it) where the valves can be accessed...undo the valves (with special B&S small engine tool, avail on ePrey) and then clean the valves, lap the valves to their seats, and then re-install them and check for proper valve lash clearances (for 12xK series, intake and exhaust are between 4thou and 5thou).

While you are at it: decarbon both the combustion chamber and the piston head before reinstalling the cyl head...

That should fix these headache-y B&S autochokes...

Good luck.

Q.

You can reference to my last year's like RE: primer bulb'ed B&S675 cylinder head servicing and valve service:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...444#Post2664444

 

[Quest]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...444#Post2664444

 

[oilboy123]

Not sure I want to tear the engine down on a 2 yr old mower that's not mine. But I will take all of this to heart. I'll start with a new plug. Do these mowers have a mesh screen and that's it?

If so I need to get a filter on.

 

[Quest]

I gave you my diagnosis and it's up to you.

Good luck.

Q.

BTW: spark plugs on those side-draft Walbro type B&S tends to lead a much, much longer service life: I have some of those B&S that their original Champion RJ19LM plugs on them with close to 100hrs, still looks good and runs fine (after I cleaned up the chamber and the valves....) Mine is still in excellent shape after 70+hrs since rebuilt. Food for thoughts.

 

[123GO]

So much for you guys knowledge of spark plugs...
NGK story: My cousin had a 79 Harley low rider that needed a rebuild bad but he wanted to wait till winter. It smoked so bad he fouled every plug within 15-20min riding and carried a bag of them to ride it. He ran Harley plugs{champions},reg champions,split fires,autolite,ac you name it he fouled it. I kept telling him get NGK it will run. Ever try to get a Harley rider to put a japanese part on a Harley..lol?
After a few weeks I got tired of hearing him whine so I bought two NGK's for him. After he installed them he rode the bike every day for 2 months. All his bikes got NGK since. How come?
All NGK's are designed to fire in oil. Japans the 2 cycle dirt bike capital of the world since the 60's, NGK made "all" their plugs capable of firing in oil because of it. JC Whitney has always advertised them as the plugs that fire in oil,remember that add? In 40yrs Ive only had one NGK go bad unless it was gas fouled in my race cars while tuning carbs. I did do that to a set. The one bad plug was in a 1988 Maxima and it just went? Failing to spark. I can still remember it. They wont spark better but I assure you NGKs will spark much much longer than anything else on the market... BTW: O'Reileys auto parts sells them for same price as a junk Champion.