How Diagose Inner Tie Rods?

[doitmyself]

My Caravan just started to develop a Knocking sound when I bounce the steering wheel back and forth. On other vehicles, this has always been an outer tie rod that I could feel and/or see wear movement.

This time, the outer tie rods "seem" to be tight, but I can feel a knocking throughout the tie rod, maybe a bit more towards the inner side close to the boot.

But, the feel/sound tends to resonate throughout the tie rod, so I am having difficulty. Is it the outer end(s)without any visible/feel wear. Or is it the inners?

Could it also be the steering rack?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Donald]

yOU MIGHT JUST REPLACE all four, the cost is not that much and an alignment is needed.

 

[The Critic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06yN0oLEHNY

Skip to 0:45.

Originally Posted By: Donald
yOU MIGHT JUST REPLACE all four, the cost is not that much and an alignment is needed.


Please do not encourage unnecessary/unjustified part replacement.

However, it does sound like there is an inner tie rod problem if the rod itself has some play.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06yN0oLEHNY

Skip to 0:45.

Originally Posted By: Donald
yOU MIGHT JUST REPLACE all four, the cost is not that much and an alignment is needed.


Please do not encourage unnecessary/unjustified part replacement.

However, it does sound like there is an inner tie rod problem if the rod itself has some play.


I disagree. I said "might". So depending upon how many miles on the vehicles or the parts, it make make more sense to replace all 4 rather than do two now and alignment and two latter and alignment.

One should do cost benefit analysis, rather than just make a very generalized statement like you did.

 

[doitmyself]

Well, I got a helper and I investigated a bit more. I cannot detect any movement in the outer tie rods. With the vehicle jacked up and tires on, when I grab the tires at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions, I can feel some dampered play. It's not a sharp knocking feel/sound as when the outers are very worn.

It seems to be worse on the drivers side, but it is difficult to tell. With someone else wiggling the steering wheel, I can hear a faint bit of fluid swoosh with each wiggle....maybe this is normal.

I'm not ruling anything out at this point (blinders not on yet), but I am guessing inner tie rods or steering rack.

The Critics video doesn't tell how to differentiate between these.

Is there a diagnostic procedure for this?

WHAT SUCKS IS THAT WE ARE WITHIN 2 TO 3 WEEKS OF GETTING RID OF THIS VEHICLE FOR A NEW ONE. GRRRRRRRRR. It's 9+ years old, 145K, with severe rust being the "time to move on" factor. Have a wonderful Easter guys....or what ever your faith directs you to.

Donald/Critic...at this point it's fix as cheap as possible or sell as is, depending what works out best. Dealer trade is only about $1,400 (4 cyl./short wheelbase). So, if I can only sell it myself for $2,000 +/-, I need to evaluate repair costs vs. trade.

Thanks guys.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Well, I got a helper and I investigated a bit more. I cannot detect any movement in the outer tie rods. With the vehicle jacked up and tires on, when I grab the tires at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions, I can feel some dampered play. It's not a sharp knocking feel/sound as when the outers are very worn.

It seems to be worse on the drivers side, but it is difficult to tell. With someone else wiggling the steering wheel, I can hear a faint bit of fluid swoosh with each wiggle....maybe this is normal.

I'm not ruling anything out at this point (blinders not on yet), but I am guessing inner tie rods or steering rack.

The Critics video doesn't tell how to differentiate between these.

Is there a diagnostic procedure for this?

WHAT SUCKS IS THAT WE ARE WITHIN 2 TO 3 WEEKS OF GETTING RID OF THIS VEHICLE FOR A NEW ONE. GRRRRRRRRR. It's 9+ years old, 145K, with severe rust being the "time to move on" factor. Have a wonderful Easter guys....or what ever your faith directs you to.

Donald/Critic...at this point it's fix as cheap as possible or sell as is, depending what works out best. Dealer trade is only about $1,400 (4 cyl./short wheelbase). So, if I can only sell it myself for $2,000 +/-, I need to evaluate repair costs vs. trade.

Thanks guys.


Throw in part and forget the alignment.

Actually I would just forget fixing it. If you cannot detect any movement, its not a safety issue at present.

People should expect a beat beater for < $2K.

 

[doitmyself]

I despise those living down south that can keep a car for many years without rust! It behooves a person like me that follows excellent maintenance.

On other Chrysler forums, I read that Daimler/Chryco sprayed some kind of sealant/foam into the rockers around '04, causing plugging and internal rust.

Every new design invokes changes that defy logic. Come on, engineers and bean counters.......Just wait until all these new electronics start going bad. Rant off.

 

[Chris142]

If your gunna trade it in next month just drive it.

 

[Jim Spahr]

Here's something in the front suspension that can cause a knocking sound. The sway bar links that connect the sway bars to the suspension have bushing that either go bad and crack or go missing. They will then make a pop or knock when you move the front susp. up and down. Inspect both sides while someone pushes up and down on the car. One company-- Moog-- had a beefier upgrade and it was inexpensive. Less than 20.00 each for the Moog Problem Solver version.

 

[NHGUY]

My 2002 has the rockers FULL of foam.I'm thinking it was done for noise suppression and to aid a bit in side impacts.It does trap moisture though.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
My 2002 has the rockers FULL of foam.I'm thinking it was done for noise suppression and to aid a bit in side impacts.It does trap moisture though.


So, yes, one could bash Chrysler for this boo boo, but in my shopping for new vehicles, it's hard to unearth anything that doesn't have some kind of flaw or another when you dig into the owner forums. Frustrating.

On the other hand, this is my 3rd short wheelbase Caravan in about 25 years and remarkably, the overall experience has been pretty good compared to a lot of stories I hear. Sludged engines, coolant/gasket meltdowns, trannies, computers, spark plugs blowing out, yada...yada...yada.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Donald


Throw in part and forget the alignment.


On an innie you pretty much have to align it. The jam nut you'd use to mark your reference point is going to be on the old part. Plausibly you could count threads to get it close.

I'd set toe with a laser level, put the steering wheel straight and have the level on 4 and 8 oclock of the tire sidewall bulges, aim to just barely miss the rear tire. Then when you drive down the road fine tune it for a straight steering wheel, assuming you had one before the surgery.

Another thing to consider is if you need special tools or are going to ghetto rig it with a monkey wrench.

If you have a conscience, note this van will wind up on a buy here pay here lot sold to some single mom who needs a safe ride for her kids. As Michigan doesn't do safety inspections, it'll be "as is" and not gone over.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you have a conscience, note this van will wind up on a buy here pay here lot sold to some single mom who needs a safe ride for her kids. As Michigan doesn't do safety inspections, it'll be "as is" and not gone over.

I have moral values almost to a fault. Whenever I sell a vehicle, I disclose all known problems and price it appropriately. If it gets traded (at much less $$), I assume it would go to auction. At some point, the purchaser has some responsibility to access the condition. But no, I won't pull any monkey business....the golden rule all the way.

Fix it, get more. Trade it, get less. Sell as is/all defects disclosed, get "medium"? Another new experience for me to figure out. I wanted to sell this 6 months ago, but problems arose that prevented it. There's no certainties in life and no crystal balls. In the past, I managed to sell at just the right time....life took a hold this time and chose my course.

But, thanks for reminding me about that conscience thing eljefino!

I will be having nightmares of a single mom with kids broken down in the desert, all because of me.