how to clean this carbon? (pics...)

[sky jumper]

Dave - thanks for the great info. your fuel/add history is impressive, I'm surprised you have any carbon at all. I too am now questioning the effectiveness of V Power and all the cleaning tonics. your're crushing my hopes of cleaning this up without a serious piston soak of some sort or the water treatment -- neither of which I feel too comfortable with. there's a lot of guys on here that swear by these methods, so it can't be that bad.

I've only owned the car for 7k miles, and have only used V power or Amoco Ultimate. I did run one bottle of techron through about a week before I took the pic.

as for what causes this - my guess is stop and go driving. I'm stuck in traffic jams everyday, and I think the guy before me was too. I see you live in LA, so I'm sure you fight the same battle. what kind of gas mileage do you get? I get about 22 to 23 with a big dose of stop/go - so I don't think I'm running rich.

as for how to prevent it? not sure. good gas and fuel adds didn't help you, not much else we can do.

Joel

 

[ShortBuSX]

I used nothing but Shell gas for the first year and a half...I also developed a very loud ping...needless to say I no longer use it, Im not impressed...and that was without any additives.

 

[kang]

Try several tanks in a row of Techron, Regane, BG-44K, B12 Chemtool, etc.

As for your stop and go driving, try a good Italian tune-up!

 

[Dave H]

I've taken some more pics of my carboned piston, and may have 1 that kinda shows what Sky Jumper and I are dealing with. His pic definitely came out better, though, and my piston top looks basically the same. And this is with my regular use of additives (see above post). With the additives I've used, I'm starting to really doubt the effectiveness of them and also Shell V-Power at preventing carbon deposits.
Knowing my piston tops were layered with carbon really got to me. So, on top of the 15.75 oz Lucas Fuel Treatment in my tank, I decided to use some SeaFoam on a very warm engine. I let it (6 oz's) get sucked in through a vacuum line that feeds all cylinders evenly, at a rate that made it hard keeping the car running even while playing with the throttle. I immediately killed the ignition, and let it soak for ten minutes (it "dieseled" after I killed the ignition. First time it's done that to me). I cranked it back up (with a little trouble), let idle for about 3 minutes (while playing with the throttle to watch the smoke screen),then went for a spirited drive. The smoke was extreme, and took several minutes to disappear. The car drove fine, and may have been peppier with a smoother idle. Or it could just be the placebo effect.
Anyways, this evening I looked at my piston tops again. There is no change from before I used the SeaFoam. Carbon is still there. So I squirted them with about an oz of Deep Creep (SeaFoam in an aerosol), replaced the plugs, waited ten minutes, and went for a drive. The smoke wasn't bad at all, only ocurring immediately after startup. I'll check my pistons again tomorrow.

It's looking like I'll do a piston soak for a day with MMO, unless anyone has any better ideas.

With all this, I've learned that SeaFoam is not an effective cleaner of carbon deposits on piston tops. However, I do know it cleans TB's and intakes pretty well from previous experience. So I'll keep using it for that purpose. But piston tops......

Dave

 

[1sttruck]

"I used nothing but Shell gas for the first year and a half...I also developed a very loud ping..."

We had been using Chevron but switched to Shell for awhile, and while it initially seemed to run better both cars seemed to start pinging kind of early, so it's back to Chevron for us. I quit using MMO as it didn't stop the pinging from starting, and don't use Regane anymore as it didn't stop the pinging after it started. Chevron Techron Fuel System Cleaner works best for both Taurus sedans.

Water injection seems to work, I used a sprayer while working the throttle linkage. I would avoid large amounts of water as the O2 sensors that I've taken apart seem to have a ceramic core, they run hot, and might be prone to cracking if it with a bunch of water. I sprayed a bunch of Seafoam after a water treatment, in an attempt to dry the system out, and did it just before an oil change.

B12 seems to work better than Seafoam on sludge and varnish, it also seems harder on some plastics, and neither seem to clean carbon on cold parts. I've considered trying a can of B12 as a gas treatment but am leery of it possibly damaging the fuel pump - anyone have any experience on this ?

I've come to think that there are different chemical 'species' of stuff in our engines, sludge, varnish, carbon, and each of those may vary depending on engine, oil, fuel and operating conditions. Remember that crankcase vapors get sucked into the intake thru the PCV system, and that exhaust gets sucked into the intake thru the EGR system. Each 'species' may need a different cleaner, so use what works. I can envision a list or table of cleaner effectiveness on sludge, varnish, and carbon, but so far all we have are these rambling threads :^)

 

[BlazerLT]

Water worked awesome on my truck, a small trickle of water into the pcv line really cleaned a lot of carbon out of the cylinders.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=001344

 

[tj5450]

1ststruck,

I have been using a can of B-12 to a full tank of gas (per 20 Gals)every 3000 miles for several years with no problem. No carbon buildup either. Vehicles are a 1996 Ranger 4.0l and a 2002 GMC Yukon XL.

 

[jamesn]

i have had pretty good luck using steam. i had a toyota truck with the 22re engine that would carbon up the #3 cylinder every 10k miles. when i got it they thought the engine was shot. it was just carbon knock when you statred it up. loud as ****. i took it to the local detail shop and used their steam engine cleaner you could cook the paint right off of a car with that thing. most detail shops that service car dealers have them. i just stuck the wand right in the throttle body. ran it up to 2k rpm's and held it while the guy ran steam at about 1/3 of full power. 5-8 minutes and it was nice and shiny. cost me 10 bucks including tip. no chance of hydro locking the engine.

 

[Steelhead]

water for combustion chamber carbon buildup, safe, effective and low cost, done on operating temp engine.
Techron Concentrate and FP for FI, plenum, intake manifold and intake valve tulip cleaning.
Seafoam 2 hr 4 oz in spark plug hole soak or Auto-RX for ring pack cleaning

 

[shanneba]

Keep using the Shell gasoline. It has more then the EPA mandated minimum detergents to help keep your engine clean. Any of the "Top Tier" gasolines should help.

Top Tier gasoline

 

[bkrell]

Nah, it happens to most engines over time. I pour a cap full of Chemtool B-12 down the plug holes and let it sit for 15 minutes. A lot of people worry chemtool is too strong but I used it repeatedly over the life of my 97 saab and never lost a bit of compression even after 191,000 miles.

If you pull the fuel pump fuse before hand and crank the engine until it empties the fuel lines, you can then just pour in the chemtool, let sit, then crank it again w/ plugs replaced to burnoff the chemtool. Then replace the fulpump fuse.

 

[bkrell]

Dave H

quote:

---

I notice you're from S'port. I used to patrol Cedar Grove a few years ago. I'm just a stone's throw east of you in Webster Parish. Nice 80 degree weather yesterday, wasn't it?

Any advice on the carbon issue is appreciated.

---

LOL, I work for the USDA Forest Service in Minden and Homer! Small world! You Minden PD or Webster Sheriff? Hah, now I have a way out of tickets!!! Well, besides my uniform!

Anyway, I don't think as long as the chemtool is in the oil that it's going to be too harmful. As for the combustion chambers, on my saab, I've always poured it into the sparkplug holes since it's an inline 4 and you can pour straight down onto the pistons. Try and do it cold (now's a good time!). Here's a little more detail on MY procedure:

a.)disconnect the fuel pump fuse and turn the car over 'til it depressurizes

b.)pour in the chemtool thru the plug holes and let soak. I have no fixed time on this but it seems to not take long at all to clean the crowns themselves, as in fairly instantly.

c.)crank engine again w/ plugs in to try and burn off the chemtool w/o introducing anymore gas into the mix to keep from burning up the cat.

d.)reconnect fuel pump fuse and w/ a few cranks you should be back in business

You may get a little white smoke just like mmo but it's harmless.