Shell - GTL - Pennzoil

[buster]

Link

Article from 2011.

Quote:
“It’s going to help us be able to come out with really good products in regard to low viscosity, low volatility, high fuel efficiency, lower emissions and better wear protection,”


Quote:
GTL in particular – provide very good volatility. “I’m talking about the hot spots in the engine where it can reach 400 to 600 degrees Fahrenheit,” he explained. “That’s enough to start to boil away or evaporate some of the lubricant molecules, where they go out the exhaust system.


Quote:
The products also excel at cold crank viscosity, he said. “The synthetics, and again in particular the GTL base stocks, are extremely good at that,” Fern added. “They are very consistent in viscosity across different temperatures.”

 

[A_Harman]

And another interesting quote:

“So it gives us the ability to not worry too much about building in other additives to be able to deal with volatility and cold crank,” he continued. “It gives us the ability to focus in on what we need to. Which means we don’t have to have as many things to balance into the overall formulation.”


I think this is a valuable bit of insight into the art of lubricant formulation: Start with good base stock, and your additive package is easier to formulate.

If GTL is good enough to surpass PAO in performance, why not just include it in Group IV? Calling it Group III+ seems to be splitting hairs to me.

 

[buster]

Good points.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

What products have GTL stocks currently, PU? PP/UD 0w20?

any VI charts and viscometrics on the stocks?

Ill go luk ... ...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
What products have GTL stocks currently, PU? PP/UD 0w20?

any VI charts and viscometrics on the stocks?

Ill go luk ... ...


Just PU as far as I know.

 

[supercity]

Isn't Visom GTL?

 

[Coprolite]

Originally Posted By: supercity
Isn't Visom GTL?

No, it is wax isomerization.

 

[mr_diy]

from their MSDS
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.

QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.

PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.

So is GTL; Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil or synthetic hydrocarbon oils?

 

[yonyon]

Fischer-Tropsch derived would be GTL.

 

[KHP]

Originally Posted By: mr_diy
So is GTL; Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil or synthetic hydrocarbon oils?


Fischer-Tropsch Wiki:
Quote:
The Fischer–Tropsch process, or Fischer–Tropsch synthesis, is a collection of chemical reactions that converts a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen into liquid hydrocarbons. The process, a key component of gas to liquids technology, produces a synthetic lubrication oil and synthetic fuel, typically from coal, natural gas, or biomass.


So... Yes that is GTL.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Maybe tomorrow when I feel better I will do a search on what all these "G" oils mean. As for now, in the easiest possible way, WTH are y'all talking about? Are you saying the ground has fake dinosaurs in it?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: KHP
Fischer-Tropsch Wiki:
Quote:
The Fischer–Tropsch process, or Fischer–Tropsch synthesis, is a collection of chemical reactions that converts a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen into liquid hydrocarbons. The process, a key component of gas to liquids technology, produces a synthetic lubrication oil and synthetic fuel, typically from coal, natural gas, or biomass.


So... Yes that is GTL.

A-ha! See? I knew it!
The Wiki quote uses the terms "Fischer-Tropsch synthesis" and "synthetic lubrication oil" to describe GTL. I don't have a problem calling GTL lubes "fully synthetic".

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Maybe tomorrow when I feel better I will do a search on what all these "G" oils mean. As for now, in the easiest possible way, WTH are y'all talking about? Are you saying the ground has fake dinosaurs in it?

Sorry about that reply. It was late, my meds were kicking in, and I was totally confused on what y'all were talking about.
I did some research this morning and here is what I found;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_to_liquids

http://www.shell.com/global/future-energy/meeting-demand/natural-gas/gtl/products.html

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/422/gas-to-liquids

Very good reading material.

 

[KHP]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Sorry about that reply. It was late, my meds were kicking in, and I was totally confused on what y'all were talking about.
I did some research this morning and here is what I found;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_to_liquids

http://www.shell.com/global/future-energy/meeting-demand/natural-gas/gtl/products.html

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/422/gas-to-liquids

Very good reading material.

The more I read about this process the more I'm loving it. It seems like they can use this process on normally "waste" gasses that result from drilling/refining crude oil. They usually just burn the gas so that it does not pollute our atmosphere. Obviously the main supply comes from the natural gas reserves.

It seems like a process that can be attached to existing refineries and/or capture the gasses for later refinement to decrease waste and increase output. It's such a "green" move for Shell and it's resulting in liquid gold.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: KHP
It seems like a process that can be attached to existing refineries and/or capture the gasses for later refinement to decrease waste and increase output. It's such a "green" move for Shell and it's resulting in liquid gold.

I wonder how long it will be before other Petro companies start moving in this direction?
Believe it or not, Shell gas is the ONLY gas that goes into my gas tank! My truck seems to run the best and get the best gas mileage with Shell gas.
I tried WM gas one time. My engine sounded like a Woodpecker on a street light!

 

[Coprolite]

Back in the day, the gas would be vented/flared at the wellhead and only the liquids kept for sale. The current pricing environment has basically all the companies that can move the drilling rigs focused on liquid rich plays(in the USA). The commingled gas is stuffed in a pipeline and sold for some limited gain. Gas fields are getting the bare minimum attention to maintain acreage leases.

I personally wish that natural gas would have more uptake in the motor vehicle world.

To get back on topic, GTL is about as synthetic as you can get excluding the fact that hydrocarbons are a major input ingredient. I am not familiar with PAO, POE and other synthetics to know what goes into making them. I would suspect that a major part of the classification of oils by group has to do with the actual chemical structure with a secondary consideration of where they came from. Therefore, GTL would be group three on structure and get a little + from Shell as a nod to the synthesis process.

The last paragraph is just a BITOGy stab at inferring why something was done. I have no expertise in that arena.

 

[ottotheclown]

Can you imagine the sales dept. was as sharp as the rest of the company. They really dropped the ball on this one. Great oil but they do not sell it. WOW

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I would suspect that a major part of the classification of oils by group has to do with the actual chemical structure with a secondary consideration of where they came from.


It's actually the only consideration - chemical properties - unfortunately most of us ignore that fact when extolling the benefits of one engine oil or another.

As shown on the chart, Group IV is PAO exclusively. I could see some justification to putting GTL in Group V, but it really is a group III.

This chart is from Noria, and is the chemical requirements for each of the groups. Let's not get this confused with the marketing terms in which Groups III, IV, and V are listed on the bottles of synthetic.

One good reason they will probably keep it in Group III is so it fits the base oil interchange rules and so that they can sell it to people who formulate all kinds of lubricant products - not just crankcase oils.


Get the full descriptions here.

 

[Coprolite]

Solarent, thanks for the picture and the link. I haven't gotten to the link yet, but my comment regarding the secondary consideration of where they come from is displayed in the picture where it refers to solvent refined, hydrotreated and hydrocracked as the process to refine them for I, II and III.

Now that I have had a chance to read the link, it is simply a way of generalizing the source process that made the oils. This generalization is what can confuse people regarding the groups. It is more of a how vs why issue. They are all parts of the big picture but knowing where they fit in is important.

Originally Posted By: Solarent
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I would suspect that a major part of the classification of oils by group has to do with the actual chemical structure with a secondary consideration of where they came from.


It's actually the only consideration - chemical properties - unfortunately most of us ignore that fact when extolling the benefits of one engine oil or another.

As shown on the chart, Group IV is PAO exclusively. I could see some justification to putting GTL in Group V, but it really is a group III.

This chart is from Noria, and is the chemical requirements for each of the groups. Let's not get this confused with the marketing terms in which Groups III, IV, and V are listed on the bottles of synthetic.

One good reason they will probably keep it in Group III is so it fits the base oil interchange rules and so that they can sell it to people who formulate all kinds of lubricant products - not just crankcase oils.


Get the full descriptions here.

 

[Danh]

If Shell had announced GTL base stocks were predominant in Ultra, compared them to competitors and extolled their virtues, maybe Ultra would have been a bigger success. And still at WalMart, even.

I spoke to one of the Pennzoil tech reps and he wouldn't even acknowledge that GTL stocks were involved. Why keep it a secret, unless we North American drivers just aren't bright or discriminating enough to care?