Do we really need oil additives?

[Mystic]

Gee, it seems like discussion here in the Oil Additives Section has stopped. Well, I am going to bring up something that will probably be controversial.

In this day and age do we really need oil supplements and special engine cleaners?

I looked for a very long time for that magic engine cleaner that could clean the insides of an engine effectively and safely. Well, Pennzoil has engine sequence test data (scientific testing) that indicates its motor oils can clean an engine and keep it clean. I am sure that Mobil 1 probably does a good job also. If a person used Mobil 1 or Pennzoil synthetic from the time their car was new, and if they had reasonable OCIs and corrected any maintenance issues, there is no reason the inside of the engine would not stay clean for a very long time. Even if somebody was using a decent quality conventional motor oil from the time their car was new the engine should stay reasonably clean for a long time with reasonable OCIs.

And like has been pointed out here any good quality motor oil should have all of the additives that a person needs. So really perhaps there is no need for oil supplements.

There are of course special circumstances where a person might have a seal leak or something else that might require a special additive. Or the seal could be replaced.

Now I have tried a few oil supplements that seemed to work for me and a few engine cleaners that seemed to work. But do we really need any of them?

There are a few engine cleaners that might be worth trying in addition to a good cleaning motor oil because those engine cleaners are easy to obtain and seem to produce results. MMO and Kreen are two examples. But a person could try a good motor oil that can clean an engine first.

If all of the oil supplements and engine cleaners disappeared would our world really be that much different?

I am not like a former member here (Skyship) and against all oil supplements and engine cleaners. I have tried a few that seemed to work and seemed to have some merit. And people will go on using whatever they want to use anyway. But I am just asking a question-do we really need any of these oil supplements and engine cleaners? Seems like a decent subject for debate and discussion.

After all, if you have a seal leak maybe you need to repair or replace the seal. If I had done that I never would have used an expensive product that probably wound up costing me more than any seal repair.

Now I will still use a quality fuel system cleaner and Sta-Bil in gasoline to keep it useable. And MMO has been around forever and will probably continue to be around for a long time and is an easy and cheap way to maybe help a good motor oil clean. But seriously, do we really need these oil supplements and engine cleaners?

 

[Coprolite]

I believe the recent advancements in certifications has marginalized the usefulness additives. There will always be some sort of market for the miracle worker additive that provides a quick cure for whatever malady afflicts the car of some desperate owner in the auto parts store.

The reality is that the great majority of people don't have mechanical aptitude that goes past opening a bottle and dumping it into (hopefully) the right fill point in the engine bay. There will always be those that can't afford to pay someone to fix the vehicle for them. Those also tend to opt for the old pickup or SUV over the new econobox for the same price.

Apologies for the gross over generalizations, but I was trying to paint the core demographic involved.

 

[mechtech2]

Need, must have, necessary, etc., skew any reasonable discussion.

The question is if there are benefits to be had.
Fuel cleaners? Absolutely.
2 stroke oil orMMO in the fuel? No doubt.
Seal conditioners/swellers in engine oil and PS fluid? They can work wonders.
There are a few very good trans additives out there.
Engine cleaners? Of course - if you need them.
Additives like moly? I'm convinced they can be great.

And we have to remember fluid and fuel mfrs all use additives.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

I have not found much use for continuous use additives. The occasional dose of something to quieten lifters, give an extra dose of cleaning, or to address some other particular issue is a perfectly valid use of additives, imho.

MMO unstuck a "dead" fuel injector for me, once. Rislone Compression Restore brought a dead cylinder back to within 10% of the other five on Dad's old slant-six, and it has stayed there for over ten years. Were these a waste of money? I don't think so.

 

[morris]

SOOOO you dont need zimc?

 

[Clevy]

Mystic
Your post says you used an additive and it worked for you. So obviously the oil wasn't enough and you deemed an additive was required.
As long as there are neglectful owners out there then engines are gonna require something.
I've found merit in a few additives out there. Everything liqui-moly/lubro-moly makes performs exactly as advertised,I use mmo/tc-w3/acetone in my fuel and I've yet to have a few delivery problem,I've used seafoam in the crankcase of seriously sludged engines and it cleaned them fantastically.
So in my opinion additives do have a place in engines.

 

[Trajan]

I used to have old cars. Old enough to be be considered classic/antiques.

They never, ever, saw any kind of oil additive.

There are questions I always ask.

What perceived problem am I trying to fix?

What did the oil formulators leave out that makes me want to use one?

What will it do to the oil chemistry?

But that's me.

IMO it's more a question of want than need. (oh, the money wasted because I wanted to and convinced myself I needed to.)

 

[Mystic]

I thought this post would make for some interesting conversation. Understand that I am not totally against oil supplements and engine cleaners, but I think this is a question that really does need to be asked-do we really need these oil additives?

One of the reasons I decided to write this post was because in another post a guy had a photograph of the inside of an engine with a lot of miles. The engine had always had Mobil 1 oils of one type or another and despite the mileage it looked like a brand new engine. Of course if you buy a used car you don't know what you are going to get, but do check the dipstick and see what the oil looks like before you buy. Of course they may change the oil (maybe) but you can also look for blue smoke, etc.

But no way the vehicle that had always had Mobil 1 oil required any kind of an engine cleaner, and it sure looked like Mobil 1 oil had been a good enough oil for that engine without oil supplements. Especially at a time when we have actual test data that some motor oils can clean up dirty engines, you have to ask yourself if oil is good enough.

Now gasoline is pretty nasty stuff so I think fuel system cleaners are still necessary. And I still like to put Sta-Bil in gasoline for my lawnmower. MMO is an easy experiment-it is cheap and readily available, for the gas or the oil.

But before I bought some expensive engine cleaner I would just use Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil 1 oil. Aside from the testing Pennzoil did we have some actual photographic evidence that was shown at this website to demonstrate the cleaning ability of Pennzoil Platinum motor oil. And I am not trying to promote any product-if you hate Pennzoil try Mobil 1 instead.

If a high quality motor oil can clean up a dirty engine and provide enough protection for the engine why use any oil additives whatsoever? Of course, if you had a classic car that needed more Zinc you could get a special supplement.

Just a simple question and maybe there can be some interesting discussion.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Mystic

As long as there are neglectful owners out there then engines are gonna require something.

So in my opinion additives do have a place in engines.


These two lines nail it. Not everyone is fortunate enough to buy a car new, and pamper it from day one. Some of us buy used cars, beaters, or cars with unknown history that have issues. Guess what? Some might be smart enough and capable to check them out, get lucky, and buy a real gem. Others not so lucky, and not have the time, money, or talent to make the repairs. Nothing wrong using an additive, with a proven track record, and give it a try to resolve a problem or clean it up. You don't have to plop down a lot of cash to do it either, about $5 at Walmart usually does the trick, for cleaning an engine, and silencing dirty lifters. Sometimes you can even free up sticking rings, and resolve problems associated with that.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
for cleaning an engine, and silencing dirty lifters. Sometimes you can even free up sticking rings, and resolve problems associated with that.


You could also resolve these issues by running Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra for a couple of OCI's. If your engine holds 5 quarts of oil, that is 160 ounces of oil, 160 ounces of PP or PU is gonna do more than 16 ounces of some miracle oil additive.

 

[Mystic]

I think it is a good idea to start with motor oil like Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil 1. Remember that Pennzoil has actual engine sequence test data, scientific data, that their motor oils can clean an engine. And a motor oil change using their Pennzoil synthetic oils or Mobil 1 would be cheaper than some of these expensive engine cleaning products.

If a person wanted to help the motor oil clean MMO is a cheap and readily available engine cleaner that could be added. And Kreen has to be ordered and there is a shipping and handling fee but it is still cheaper than some expensive engine cleaners. And both MMO and Kreen can also be used in the fuel as fuel system cleaners and MMO as an upper cylinder lubricant. It is likely that a product like MMO will be around for a long time and it is so readily available and low in cost it could easily be added to the Pennzoil or Mobil 1 oil to improve the cleaning even more.

A few short OCIs with these cleaning motor oils, perhaps assisted by MMO or Kreen, would probably clean up most engines that are dirty but not beyond repair. No expensive engine cleaning product would be repaired.

As far as oil supplements are concerned there would be no need for oil supplements if you were using a high quality motor oil like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum. I have used a few, very few, oil supplements in my life that I still believe in. But using a high quality motor oil you probably would not need anything unless you had a seal leak or a classic car that required more zinc.

 

[Mystic]

Some have said to just use higher quality motor oil rather than using oil supplements. Well, we are using higher quality motor oil if we use a Mobil 1 oil of some type (regular Mobil 1, HM, EP, whatever), or we use Pennzoil synthetics.

Some have demanded proof that a cleaning product works. Are the engine sequence tests done by Pennzoil proof enough? Those tests should at least be superior to what we have for most if not all of these special cleaning products. And some of these special cleaning products are as expensive as a Mobil 1 or Pennzoil synthetic oil change.

We can even add MMO to the Mobil 1 or Pennzoil synthetic to improve cleaning even more. The MMO is so cheap and readily available it hardly even adds to the cost. And it (along with Kreen) can also be used in the fuel as a fuel system cleaner.

You will probably get your engine cleaner and there is no need for some expensive special engine cleaner. And you have more room in your garage because you will not have all those containers of other stuff in there.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: V8man
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
for cleaning an engine, and silencing dirty lifters. Sometimes you can even free up sticking rings, and resolve problems associated with that.


You could also resolve these issues by running Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra for a couple of OCI's. If your engine holds 5 quarts of oil, that is 160 ounces of oil, 160 ounces of PP or PU is gonna do more than 16 ounces of some miracle oil additive.


Glad you feel that way, my experience has taught me different, especially with problem engines. Just how many engine problems have you resolved with PP and PU?

 

[Mystic]

Well MMO and Kreen could still be added to the Mobil 1 or Pennzoil synthetics. Like I said MMO is so low in cost and so readily available that it hardly even adds to the cost. And both MMO and Kreen are also fuel system cleaners and MMO is an upper cylinder lubricant. And both are lower in cost compared to some expensive engine cleaners that require complicated clean and rinse cycles and use of conventional motor oil.

Even conventional motor oil could be used for the engine cleaning. According to Pennzoil even their conventional PYB has cleaning ability. Combine it with the MMO or Kreen.

And you could forget about the expensive special engine cleaners.

 

[KCJeep]

Like demarpaint mentioned, if I was able to consistently buy new or nearly new vehicles I doubt I'd never need an oil additive. Since that is not reality for me, or especially for my young adult children whose cars I maintain, a few additives can be useful.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Like demarpaint mentioned, if I was able to consistently buy new or nearly new vehicles I doubt I'd never need an oil additive. Since that is not reality for me, or especially for my young adult children whose cars I maintain, a few additives can be useful.


I completely forgot about young adults! Imagine that!!!! I'll be headed to sunny San Diego soon, and have a brake job waiting for me. I'm pretty sure when I start poking around under the hood there'll be more work.

 

[KCJeep]

Like toddlers with adult problems they are hee hee.