My dad's 79 Honda 750 did not have much legroom either, but my new to me 81 GSX1100 is much more comfy. The standards seem to fit you or they don't.
New Honda CB1100
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I've got an 86 750 Honda shadow that's a blast to ride in the city. It's nimble,revs high and gets at least 50mph if your being nice. Shaft drive too. My girl rides it although I will sometimes too.
The old bikes from the 70s were fun. My buddy has a 500cc kawi 2 stroke. That bike just screams til about 80 or so but gets there real fast.
The old bikes from the 70s were fun. My buddy has a 500cc kawi 2 stroke. That bike just screams til about 80 or so but gets there real fast.
Yea the H2 could be one fast motorcycle. I was out at Fremont, CA in Aug of 81 at a NMRA national motorcycle drag race and met the late Dave Shultz riding Paul Gast's 72 H2 Prostocker and watched it run in the 8.8 second range. Down right amazing to me back then and still to this day. They had the cylinders off it and I asked if I could look at one and Paul said "sure" so I looked and don't see what magic they did.
My fully built 1/2 mile flat tracker from high school used a RD350 engine but had a ton of work done to it. Bought it right at the fairgrounds at a half mile event where it placed second.
I used to take it to school and had to drive the first half a mile spraying starting fluid in the airbox to keep it going!
But it could easily cut an 11, and a low one at that. One scary launch because if you muffed it you could easily end up on the ground.
One thing you quickly learn especially with bikes is the 'butt dyno' is really inaccurate!
I used to take it to school and had to drive the first half a mile spraying starting fluid in the airbox to keep it going!
But it could easily cut an 11, and a low one at that. One scary launch because if you muffed it you could easily end up on the ground.
One thing you quickly learn especially with bikes is the 'butt dyno' is really inaccurate!
I remember being a little kid going into the Kaw dealer and seeing my first Z1 900. It just blew my mind. There were tons of 750/4 Hondas around at the time but this was the first superbike to my memory. I remember the 2 stroke Kaws also but there were not a lot around but boy they were wicked.
Ironically, the Z and the new CB have about the same HP. Naturally, the CB is modernized but it brings me back in time. I cant wait to see one.
Ironically, the Z and the new CB have about the same HP. Naturally, the CB is modernized but it brings me back in time. I cant wait to see one.
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I was a bit surprised on the power output of the new bike too. I mean it has just about as the same power output as my new to me 81 Suzuki GSx1100. I think there is a lot more potential probably in the motor, but its more than likely tuned to be more reliable and less stressed. Still, probably a bike capable of the 11's in the quarter mile.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I was a bit surprised on the power output of the new bike too. I mean it has just about as the same power output as my new to me 81 Suzuki GSx1100. I think there is a lot more potential probably in the motor, but its more than likely tuned to be more reliable and less stressed. Still, probably a bike capable of the 11's in the quarter mile.
From everything I have read and just using some common sense the engine on the CB1100 is in an extremely mild state of tune. Yeah, there is a lot left in it. It wont have that big rush at 6K like the old ones did but it pulls good from 2K and up. The power is said to come on in a linear fashion. The tune would suit me just fine. The go fast days are well behind me now. It has plenty of power for me. I believe you could just sit back and enjoy the ride on one of these.
As far as quarter mile times who knows but I would guess mid 12 seconds.
I was a bit surprised on the power output of the new bike too. I mean it has just about as the same power output as my new to me 81 Suzuki GSx1100. I think there is a lot more potential probably in the motor, but its more than likely tuned to be more reliable and less stressed. Still, probably a bike capable of the 11's in the quarter mile.
From everything I have read and just using some common sense the engine on the CB1100 is in an extremely mild state of tune. Yeah, there is a lot left in it. It wont have that big rush at 6K like the old ones did but it pulls good from 2K and up. The power is said to come on in a linear fashion. The tune would suit me just fine. The go fast days are well behind me now. It has plenty of power for me. I believe you could just sit back and enjoy the ride on one of these.
As far as quarter mile times who knows but I would guess mid 12 seconds.
How could anyone not like this? hahahahahaha - I have calls into three Honda Dealers.... I would love to test ride one of these !
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I took a good look at it this past Friday at Daytona Bike week. It really is a throwback to the 1970's. Honda did not miss a trick. Even the styling of the taillight is similar to the bikes back then. (a bit of a bow-tie shape)
As expected, it was comfortable to sit on, the fit and finish was "Honda perfect" and it really looks like an old bike made from modern parts. The 4 into 1 sweeping, chrome exhaust really fits the bike.
I liked it, but would never purchase one. I'm not stuck in the past, and I don't see the compromises Honda made to make it look "retro" as being positive. Those compromises include air cooling, conventional shocks, conventional forks and so on, are things I try to stay away from.
As expected, it was comfortable to sit on, the fit and finish was "Honda perfect" and it really looks like an old bike made from modern parts. The 4 into 1 sweeping, chrome exhaust really fits the bike.
I liked it, but would never purchase one. I'm not stuck in the past, and I don't see the compromises Honda made to make it look "retro" as being positive. Those compromises include air cooling, conventional shocks, conventional forks and so on, are things I try to stay away from.
How is air/oil cooling a compromise? I mean there are plenty of BMW and Harleys out there with TONS of miles that are air/oil cooled.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
How is air/oil cooling a compromise? I mean there are plenty of BMW and Harleys out there with TONS of miles that are air/oil cooled.
I tend to agree with you here.
But, you forgot to say that the vast majority of Yamaha cruisers are also air cooled.
VStar 650, 950, 1100, Road Star, Road Star Warrior, Roadliner, Stratoliner. There's another one that I forgot.......
How is air/oil cooling a compromise? I mean there are plenty of BMW and Harleys out there with TONS of miles that are air/oil cooled.
I tend to agree with you here.
But, you forgot to say that the vast majority of Yamaha cruisers are also air cooled.
VStar 650, 950, 1100, Road Star, Road Star Warrior, Roadliner, Stratoliner. There's another one that I forgot.......
And my Triumph is also air/oil cooled. But I picked especially BMW since I always see those with nearly 6 figure miles on them.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
How is air/oil cooling a compromise? I mean there are plenty of BMW and Harleys out there with TONS of miles that are air/oil cooled.
Very true. But there are engineering aspects that might not, at first glance, be apparent. First, liquid cooling does a much better job of transferring heat away from the combustion chamber. This allows the use of a significantly higher compression ratio.
Second, liquid cooling allows the use of tighter tolerances and it allows engines to maintain those tolerances with much more accuracy. The use of ultra short skirt pistons is just not possible in air cooled cylinders.
Third, liquid cooling, water in particular, but to a lesser extent, oil cooling, allows 4 valve cylinder heads to cool properly between the two exhaust valves. Especially on high output engines. This allows engineers to design cylinder heads with tightly spaced valves, and excellent port shapes.
So, if you want 128HP from a 600cc, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder motorcycle engine, and you want it to live a long and reliable life, liquid cooling is a must.
If you are OK with half the HP density, air cooling is just fine.
(and, before you roast me on the above, I know that equal power to weight can often be achieved if displacement is ignored)
How is air/oil cooling a compromise? I mean there are plenty of BMW and Harleys out there with TONS of miles that are air/oil cooled.
Very true. But there are engineering aspects that might not, at first glance, be apparent. First, liquid cooling does a much better job of transferring heat away from the combustion chamber. This allows the use of a significantly higher compression ratio.
Second, liquid cooling allows the use of tighter tolerances and it allows engines to maintain those tolerances with much more accuracy. The use of ultra short skirt pistons is just not possible in air cooled cylinders.
Third, liquid cooling, water in particular, but to a lesser extent, oil cooling, allows 4 valve cylinder heads to cool properly between the two exhaust valves. Especially on high output engines. This allows engineers to design cylinder heads with tightly spaced valves, and excellent port shapes.
So, if you want 128HP from a 600cc, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder motorcycle engine, and you want it to live a long and reliable life, liquid cooling is a must.
If you are OK with half the HP density, air cooling is just fine.
(and, before you roast me on the above, I know that equal power to weight can often be achieved if displacement is ignored)
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
How is air/oil cooling a compromise? I mean there are plenty of BMW and Harleys out there with TONS of miles that are air/oil cooled.
Very true. But there are engineering aspects that might not, at first glance, be apparent. First, liquid cooling does a much better job of transferring heat away from the combustion chamber. This allows the use of a significantly higher compression ratio.
Second, liquid cooling allows the use of tighter tolerances and it allows engines to maintain those tolerances with much more accuracy. The use of ultra short skirt pistons is just not possible in air cooled cylinders.
Third, liquid cooling, water in particular, but to a lesser extent, oil cooling, allows 4 valve cylinder heads to cool properly between the two exhaust valves. Especially on high output engines. This allows engineers to design cylinder heads with tightly spaced valves, and excellent port shapes.
So, if you want 128HP from a 600cc, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder motorcycle engine, and you want it to live a long and reliable life, liquid cooling is a must.
If you are OK with half the HP density, air cooling is just fine.
(and, before you roast me on the above, I know that equal power to weight can often be achieved if displacement is ignored)
The GSX-R750G only came up 5 hp short of the liquid cooled 5 valve per cylinder FZ750. 3 years later, the liquid cooled ZX7 only surpassed the Suzuki by 7 horsepower.
The Suzuki does have a very large oil cooler and uses oil jets at the bottom of the pistons and high volumes of oil across the top of the combustion chambers.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
How is air/oil cooling a compromise? I mean there are plenty of BMW and Harleys out there with TONS of miles that are air/oil cooled.
Very true. But there are engineering aspects that might not, at first glance, be apparent. First, liquid cooling does a much better job of transferring heat away from the combustion chamber. This allows the use of a significantly higher compression ratio.
Second, liquid cooling allows the use of tighter tolerances and it allows engines to maintain those tolerances with much more accuracy. The use of ultra short skirt pistons is just not possible in air cooled cylinders.
Third, liquid cooling, water in particular, but to a lesser extent, oil cooling, allows 4 valve cylinder heads to cool properly between the two exhaust valves. Especially on high output engines. This allows engineers to design cylinder heads with tightly spaced valves, and excellent port shapes.
So, if you want 128HP from a 600cc, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder motorcycle engine, and you want it to live a long and reliable life, liquid cooling is a must.
If you are OK with half the HP density, air cooling is just fine.
(and, before you roast me on the above, I know that equal power to weight can often be achieved if displacement is ignored)
The GSX-R750G only came up 5 hp short of the liquid cooled 5 valve per cylinder FZ750. 3 years later, the liquid cooled ZX7 only surpassed the Suzuki by 7 horsepower.
The Suzuki does have a very large oil cooler and uses oil jets at the bottom of the pistons and high volumes of oil across the top of the combustion chambers.
Don't forget that the old Suzuki Bandit with the oil/air cooled 1,157cc engine produces almost identical power to the "more modern" and larger 1,255cc liquid cooled engine that replaced it.
Sure liquid cooling has benefits, but it has drawbacks. But to say that oil/air cooling is really a drawback/compromise is a bit overly general.
Sure liquid cooling has benefits, but it has drawbacks. But to say that oil/air cooling is really a drawback/compromise is a bit overly general.
I guess one of the drawbacks on this motorcycle is valve adjustments every 4 thousand miles. I have read that 4 K is also the oil change interval. Those valve adjustments could get expensive.
Originally Posted By: nomochevys
I guess one of the drawbacks on this motorcycle is valve adjustments every 4 thousand miles. I have read that 4 K is also the oil change interval. Those valve adjustments could get expensive.
Yeah, and I wonder about that. Ducati? Yes? Honda? Eh, probably not.
My Yamaha VStar1300 (water-cooled)owner's manual says 4,000 mile valve adjustments. A later service bulletin says 16,000. I checked them @ 5,000 and again around 20,000 and they were right on the money. Not saying that this would be true about this new Honda.... but it does make me wonder.
I guess one of the drawbacks on this motorcycle is valve adjustments every 4 thousand miles. I have read that 4 K is also the oil change interval. Those valve adjustments could get expensive.
Yeah, and I wonder about that. Ducati? Yes? Honda? Eh, probably not.
My Yamaha VStar1300 (water-cooled)owner's manual says 4,000 mile valve adjustments. A later service bulletin says 16,000. I checked them @ 5,000 and again around 20,000 and they were right on the money. Not saying that this would be true about this new Honda.... but it does make me wonder.
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Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Robenstein said:
Originally Posted By: nomochevys
I guess one of the drawbacks on this motorcycle is valve adjustments every 4 thousand miles. I have read that 4 K is also the oil change interval. Those valve adjustments could get expensive.
That sounds like screw and locknut adjustment with an interval that short and i would venture to say thats a valve CHECK that would not necessarily require an adjustment. My old Yamaha had those, and I checked them at every oil change but probably only needed to set them every other time. You don't have to pull the cams to adjust but I will say, on my old Yammy at least, they are tricky to set (they tend to change as you lock them down).
My 919 has shim under buckets, 20K miles between checks. At the first interveral all were in spec but two, and they were on the edge of spec, BUT I had to pull the cams to change shims. And that requires messing with the timing chain.
I really like the looks of the bike. A more "retro" version of my 919.
I guess one of the drawbacks on this motorcycle is valve adjustments every 4 thousand miles. I have read that 4 K is also the oil change interval. Those valve adjustments could get expensive.
That sounds like screw and locknut adjustment with an interval that short and i would venture to say thats a valve CHECK that would not necessarily require an adjustment. My old Yamaha had those, and I checked them at every oil change but probably only needed to set them every other time. You don't have to pull the cams to adjust but I will say, on my old Yammy at least, they are tricky to set (they tend to change as you lock them down).
My 919 has shim under buckets, 20K miles between checks. At the first interveral all were in spec but two, and they were on the edge of spec, BUT I had to pull the cams to change shims. And that requires messing with the timing chain.
I really like the looks of the bike. A more "retro" version of my 919.
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