tire store refuses to rotate tires on Minivan.

[InhalingBullets]

This was on my sister in laws Minivan so I cannot provide any pic's...sorry. All four tires were new when they purchased the van used at a Chrysler dealer with around 30k in March 2012. I don't know the current mileage but it cannot be much... She is a teacher with an 8 mile round trip commute.
In theory if you buy 4 new tires for a FWD vehicle, when you return to have them rotated after 5k the likelihood that the fronts will have more wear is high. So, the tires do not get rotated because of the wear differential and you just lost your manufacturers tread-wear warranty because they were not rotated.

 

[mikered30]

If they always want the most tread in the back, you never have to rotate tires front to back on a FWD car.

 

[bigjl]

This has been an issue in Costco in the UK for several years now.

I read the research.

And basically as the front tyres in a fwd car wear more than the rears the driver gets used to the handling balance being slightly biased to the rear as they wear less.

So if you put new tyres on the front or indeed do a simple rotation the balance will now be more biased towards the front.

So as the driver than drives down the road, in the wet specifically, the amount of grip at the back is over estimated which might lead to an accident.

It is simply a risk averse stand point which treats all drivers as being low skilled.

The Police and Ambulance service in London don't bother with this.

I have never bothered about it. When i rotated the winters on my Volvo a few months ago, the rears had probably 2mm more tread than the fronts before the swap.

I don't remember flying into a hedge at any point since. Even though the rears were now 2mm lower on tread.

 

[Russell]

Getting to the point where you have no control over your own vehicle unless you do all the work yourself.

Another thought. Do not deal with the large companies such as Discount Tire, Walmart (shudder) or Costco, use locally owneed smaller tire stores/mechanics who are more flexible. May cost a bit more though. For example, I have used the same tire store for years. Only a small amount more than Tirerack.

 

[Darkfire]

Originally Posted By: mikered30
If they always want the most tread in the back, you never have to rotate tires front to back on a FWD car.

1st time I've ever heard this. Even if this is true, would there still be no benefit to doing so anyways? Do you have some sources backing up what you've said?

 

[Quest]

*curious*

How difficult is it to rotate the tires yourself? (with a spare and one of those floor jacks that came along with the van)?

Can you do it yourself?

Q.

 

[PZR2874]

Originally Posted By: Darkfire
Originally Posted By: mikered30
If they always want the most tread in the back, you never have to rotate tires front to back on a FWD car.

1st time I've ever heard this. Even if this is true, would there still be no benefit to doing so anyways? Do you have some sources backing up what you've said?


I think he's joking.

 

[rshaw125]

So you take the van in to have the tires rotated to comply with the warranty. They refuse to rotate them. The front tires wear out and you have to buy new tires. But the new ones have to go on the back. The older worn ones are now on the front. The front ones wear out quicker (FWD). They won't rotate them because the old worn front tires would be on the back. So you have to buy more tires.

Sounds like a great way to get people to buy more tires sooner.Refuse to rotate tires on a front wheel drive vehicle when ever possible. In snow I know my minivan wants the tires with the most tread on the front.

 

[oldhp]

This is all about lawyers. My daughter needed front tires on her Tahoe, never rotated, cupped badly. The local small tire shop wanted to put the new tires on rear, rotating rears to front.
I went up there to find out what was going on. They said "their" tire companies had told all dealers to start doing this because of new evidence showing the better, new, tires prevented loss of traction in wet conditions. Right or wrong I told them to put new tires on front. Rears were still very good tread.
You can bet that somewhere a car spun out, a finger got pointed at somebody, lawyer gets involved and wal-la, all past experience gets thrown out window. You want new tires on rear? Sorry we don't/won't do that anymore because of legal issues. Before long you will have to buy all four to be legal.
Good ol' America and her lawyers.

 

[Johnny248]

They are correct in what they are telling you to an extent. The tires with the better tread are supposed to be installed on the rear of the vehcile. If the tread wear is more than a certain amount between the front and the rear, they are not supposed to be rotated. Rotating the tires at the correct intervals makes this problem a non-problem. This why it is important to rotate your tires as they are schedule to keep tire wear even. It is a industry standard which more and more shops are starting to follow. The TIA as well as the tire manufacturers stand behind the safety reasoning. That all being said, if the owner maintains their vehicle as they are supposed to, you prolong tire life, help control even tire wear, and maintain the manufactures tire warranties. If you don't maintain regular rotation history, the tire manufacturer will not honor any mileage warranties.

So, you have the option of either roatating them yourself, or find another shop that will do it for you. In the future, maintain your tires by rotating them regularly and they will treat you better over the life of the tires, and avoid situations like the van just encountered.

 

[InhalingBullets]

Originally Posted By: Quest
*curious*

How difficult is it to rotate the tires yourself? (with a spare and one of those floor jacks that came along with the van)?

Can you do it yourself?

Q.


SEE page 1/

 

[ARCOgraphite]

RULE: Good tires on the rear always - but if the tread depth isnt exhausted, they should rotate them. I would only refuse to rotate in my shop (back in the 70's) if one axle pair was near shot - no near baldies on the back. Nice way to swap ends in the rain.
Funny aside: I recall yers ago when a tire shop lost my roomates business when they refused to mount non V-rated snows on the rear of his 86 T-Bird turbo.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
In theory if you buy 4 new tires for a FWD vehicle, when you return to have them rotated after 5k the likelihood that the fronts will have more wear is high. So, the tires do not get rotated because of the wear differential and you just lost your manufacturers tread-wear warranty because they were not rotated.

There is a simple, easy and obvious solution to this. Your 5k tire rotation will now be:

- front tires are now 'worn' and 'hazardous', need to be disposed
- buy new set of tires
- new tires mounted on the rear
- rear tires 'rotated' to the front
- repeat in 5k

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
They are correct in what they are telling you to an extent. The tires with the better tread are supposed to be installed on the rear of the vehcile. If the tread wear is more than a certain amount between the front and the rear, they are not supposed to be rotated. Rotating the tires at the correct intervals makes this problem a non-problem. This why it is important to rotate your tires as they are schedule to keep tire wear even. It is a industry standard which more and more shops are starting to follow. The TIA as well as the tire manufacturers stand behind the safety reasoning. That all being said, if the owner maintains their vehicle as they are supposed to, you prolong tire life, help control even tire wear, and maintain the manufactures tire warranties. If you don't maintain regular rotation history, the tire manufacturer will not honor any mileage warranties.

So, you have the option of either roatating them yourself, or find another shop that will do it for you. In the future, maintain your tires by rotating them regularly and they will treat you better over the life of the tires, and avoid situations like the van just encountered.


THAT......delaying rotation will of course erode tires at the front much more than the rears...to the point that OP's relative experienced and now has to deal with the catch-22 situation wryly commented upon...a good reminder for us all...

 

[Cardenio327]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
They are correct in what they are telling you to an extent. The tires with the better tread are supposed to be installed on the rear of the vehcile. If the tread wear is more than a certain amount between the front and the rear, they are not supposed to be rotated. Rotating the tires at the correct intervals makes this problem a non-problem. This why it is important to rotate your tires as they are schedule to keep tire wear even. It is a industry standard which more and more shops are starting to follow. The TIA as well as the tire manufacturers stand behind the safety reasoning. That all being said, if the owner maintains their vehicle as they are supposed to, you prolong tire life, help control even tire wear, and maintain the manufactures tire warranties. If you don't maintain regular rotation history, the tire manufacturer will not honor any mileage warranties.

So, you have the option of either rotating them yourself, or find another shop that will do it for you. In the future, maintain your tires by rotating them regularly and they will treat you better over the life of the tires, and avoid situations like the van just encountered.


^^This^^

The tolerance is 2/32" (1.6 mm). The front tires are allowed to have up to 2/32" more tread than the rears, which gives plenty of time to get the rotations done on time.

The OP's brother has neglected his tire maintenance, and now he wants to have it done but it is too late and will cause a potential safety issue. Most vehicles have multiple drivers, and not all of the drivers will have adequate experience driving in inclement weather conditions.

If it were my van I wouldn't want to lend it to a family member or friend and have them wrap it around a telephone pole because I was too lazy to get the rotations done on time and then threw a fit coercing some poor impact gofer to do the rotation anyway even though it was dangerous to do so.

In the end it boils down to money, as some posters have implied. A tire vendor would need to sell around 50,000 tires to make up for one measly $1,000,000 negligence settlement. No thanks, the customer can pound sand if they won't listen to reason.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: PZR2874
Originally Posted By: Darkfire
Originally Posted By: mikered30
If they always want the most tread in the back, you never have to rotate tires front to back on a FWD car.

1st time I've ever heard this. Even if this is true, would there still be no benefit to doing so anyways? Do you have some sources backing up what you've said?


I think he's joking.


No, I belived that if DarkFire would have read the first part of mikered30's statement he would have understood that telling a customer that the tires with the greatest amount of tread need to be on the rear of the FWD vehicle and a FWD vehicle will always wear the front tires faster, it would never be necessary to rotate the back axle tires to the front until the fronts are bald and in need of replacement. Rinse and repeat every 25-30k miles.

 

[InhalingBullets]

I agree whole heartily that proper and timely maintenance is the key to avoiding this problem completely. Although, I had never heard of a shop refusing to rotate serviceable tires. My brother ended up back at the shop today and they put two new tires on the REAR moving the old rears to the front...thus when he goes to get them rotated in 6 months...they won't.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
My brother ended up back at the shop today and they put two new tires on the REAR moving the old rears to the front...

HaHAA! ... CALLED IT!

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
My brother ended up back at the shop today and they put two new tires on the REAR moving the old rears to the front...

HaHAA! ... CALLED IT!

Well they're in business to sell tires. They made a sale.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
They made a sale.

Bingo! New set of tires every year is a good idea anyway. No harm done.