PQIA's synthetic find part two

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: salv
Sodium Detergents are highly reactive and work well to neutralize acids, but they also act faster than calcium and magnesium to fight moisture buildup. If the oil can counteract water before it combines with combustion byproducts to form acids, then you will get better TBN retention. Sodium is also highly polar and helps the oil adhere to ferrous components.


How come oils with a lot of sodium, ie valvoline, have poor TBN retention when compared to non-sodium oils like PP, QSUD, M1, ect?

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Originally Posted By: salv
Sodium Detergents are highly reactive and work well to neutralize acids, but they also act faster than calcium and magnesium to fight moisture buildup. If the oil can counteract water before it combines with combustion byproducts to form acids, then you will get better TBN retention. Sodium is also highly polar and helps the oil adhere to ferrous components.


I don't think sodium is polar. It's positively charged in the cationic form if that's what you're referring to.

 

[ottotheclown]

Firestone uses the Kendall oil both in blend and full synthetic. $20 for the blend $40 for the syn. but the filter is a ecore I think so why bother??
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Where do they purchase those oils? I don't see them on shelves.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: bourne
HOLY MOLY AND SODIUM in Schaeffers !

Looks like there's the only dimer moly user here and not much of it. Most are using the new trimer from Infineum.

 

[martinq]

Interesting that the four oils with the best flow (-30C) also have some of the best NOACK numbers:

3827 / 6.6 == PU
3937 / 10.1 = M1
4154 / 9.3 == PP
4184 / 8.8 == QSU

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Do they sell even one decent product?

Maybe the Lucas detailing products are okay.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Interesting that the four oils with the best flow (-30C) also have some of the best NOACK numbers:

3827 / 6.6 == PU
3937 / 10.1 = M1
4154 / 9.3 == PP
4184 / 8.8 == QSU



Points to high-quality basestocks.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: martinq
Interesting that the four oils with the best flow (-30C) also have some of the best NOACK numbers:

3827 / 6.6 == PU
3937 / 10.1 = M1
4154 / 9.3 == PP
4184 / 8.8 == QSU



Points to high-quality basestocks.


Bingo

 

[MolaKule]

Antimony addtives:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=729162#Post729162

Schaeffer's has been using Antimony additives since at least 2001.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: bourne
HOLY MOLY AND SODIUM in Schaeffers !

Looks like there's the only dimer moly user here and not much of it. Most are using the new trimer from Infineum.


And you know that by looking at the moly value?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
And you know that by looking at the moly value?

Is there another explanation?

 

[buster]

There was a study or brochure from Infineum from 2009 discussing Infineum's trimer moly. Basically what they were showing is that you only need 50-80ppm of it to highly reduce the cf. Amounts higher, up to 200ppm, showed no further reduction in friction.

So while many people rave about "high moly content" in oils, say up to 700ppm, it's not the same moly most likely that is being used in much smaller amounts.

The pattern seems to be that Pennzoil, Amsoil, Mobil 1 and others use about the same amount, while some companies like Redline and some of the Japanese OEM oils are using over 600 ppm of it. I would assume the high moly content oils are using a different amount that the amounts found in most oils here is the Infineum tri nuclear moly.

 

[Ibrahim]

Originally Posted By: bourne
HOLY MOLY AND SODIUM in Schaeffers !

*Side Note* whats Antimony used for ?? Schaeffer's has 69 ppm of it.


I find it so funny, cracked me up actually, Schaeffer 9000 has little bit of everything, seems like some overzealous tri-biologist concocted its add pack!!!

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Ibrahim
Originally Posted By: bourne
HOLY MOLY AND SODIUM in Schaeffers !

*Side Note* whats Antimony used for ?? Schaeffer's has 69 ppm of it.


I find it so funny, cracked me up actually, Schaeffer 9000 has little bit of everything, seems like some overzealous tri-biologist concocted its add pack!!!

If you only knew!

I think the Schaeffers and Kendall are one of those sleepers. I place Chevron oils in that category as well.

Schaeffer's should check their anti-foam silicon levels.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I cant believe how many people buy into that Lucas line of junk,Do they sell even one decent product?


They sell enough to buy the name rights of a NFL stadium.

 

[Capa]

Thank you PQIA! Keep up the good work!

 

[Thermo1223]

So that is why my UOA of Synpower had high Sodium in it. It was the add-pack!

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
LMAO, look at the NOACK on the LUCAS!! 14.9%, holy poo!!!!

Squeaked by the 15% max by the skin of its teeth. What would cause such a high NOAK? Poor base stocks?

Probably a light base oil plumped up with VII to make the Visc. specs. I would love to see an independent HTHS on this oil.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
I would love to see an independent HTHS on this oil.

+1

Oh how juicy the PQIA reports would be if they included HTHS testing!

 

[KCJeep]

That would be good, and I wish they'd do a nice run of name brand High Mileage oils too. But I really appreciate all they do, great information they put out.