pepper spray- what's hot

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Pepper spray companies make it very confusing and deceive people with hype.
They love to leave out all the numbers you need.

As a car person can we answer this question?
Toms has a 500 cubic inch engine. Bob has a 400 Cubic inch engine. Who is faster?
You can't. Bob could have 500 HP vs 200 for Tom.
Even with that HP information we still can't.
Bob could have a Ford F450 vs a Pinto for Tom so Tom may end up faster.

My son was jumped by a group of older kids so I decided to find the best spray for him.
I ended up really [censored] at some of the weak products that looked great.
I put in about 40 hours and wrote a story to help people get away from the [censored] on pepper spray.
I saw one big name 15% OC spray that only used .64 MC or Capsaicin or CRC total in the product.
You would be lucky to stop a girl scout with that.

Some sprays say they have 17% OC. Is that good?
It can be horrible. A 10% OC can be twice or three times as strong.
The only number recognized by the EPA & US Federal Government is Major Capsaicinoids (MC) Capsaicin (or CRC in the product).
MC represents the strength of the entire formulation within your pepper spray.

These companies want you to think 17% is the best but some only have .19% MC vs another with 2% MC of a 15% base.
http://www.sabrered.com/PDFs/SABRENamedMostPotentDefenseSpray.pdf
The 15% could be 10 times as strong as the 17%


Some say they use a 5% OC so the other 95% of the spray is inert.
A spray that has 10% has more active ingredients and is usually stronger but that is not always true.
A spray that has 10% OC can be much hotter than a spray that has 18% if it has more MC or Capsaicin (or CRC in the product)
If you had to use only one number it should be MC or Capsaicin (or CRC total in the product
OC% only measures the amount of raw pepper or Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) within the pepper spray formulation. The OC% does not take into account the actual potency of that OC.

Scoville heat units (SHU) is also an inaccurate measure because they only measure the strength of the previously mentioned raw OC, which is diluted from 90 to 98% because OC only measures between 2-10% of the formulation.
An example of how SHU can be misleading: a 5.3 Million SHU spray with 2% OC measures only 0.71% MC. while a 2 Million SHU spray with 10% OC measures 1.33% MC. Which spray is more potent? The 1.33 MC pepper spray is nearly twice the strength.

Bear spray is regulated as to how "hot" or powerful it can be.
They don't want the bear hurt too bad or for it to have permanent damage to it's eyes
It can only have a max MC of 2%. 2% MC
That's the only number they care about. 2% MC or Capsaicin or CRC in the total spray.
They don't care if it is 17% or 50% OC. OC alone is meaningless.
They don't care if the claim is 15 Million SHU or 3 Million SHU. Meaningless.

The companies leave out the full information you need only showing their best number.

Most police use a 2% MC spray. The most bear spray can be is 2%.

The Whoop [censored] is 17% of 4 million SHU base but the total MC in the can is only 1.06%

UDAP the strongest I found 15% OC of a 3 million SHU base with 3% MC. (50% hotter than their bear spray)
https://store.udap.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=4CO&Category_Code=


The moral is we should see all 3 numbers.
If you can't all the others but MC-CRC or Capsaicin are just hype.

Using one accepted formula the whoop [censored] at 4 million SHU divided by 17% = 253,000 times 1.06 MC= 238,000 final hotness.
The UDAP at 3 million SHU divided by 15% = 200,000 divided by 15%= 200,000 times 3% MC = 600,000 final hotness

The UDAP is 50% to 70% hotter than anything I have seen so far.
 
What about real mace? Is UDAP what you would whole-heartedly recommend? Will you spray your kid in the face before letting him carry?
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Where does Fox Labs fit in? I was about to pick some up.


Fox labs has several products.

On their mean green 6% OC Fox says....quote "if fox labs was to use at 10% OC formula they would have a nozzle heat of 530,000 SHU and 3.5 MC... Pretty impressive and scary huh?"

Those are their words.(as I smirk)

So why don't they tell me what they have?

If my car had a 450 hp corvette engine I would do a 1/4 mile in....Pretty impressive and scary huh?"
But I don't LOL

Personally if I have to chose between a company that tells me all and one that does not why bother with the one who appears to be hiding something?

The UDAP at 3 million SHU divided by 15% = 200,000 divided by 15%= 200,000 times 3% MC = 600,000 final hotness has about the numbers that fox says if they used a 10% OC which they don't

I can only assume ther are about 1/2 of the UDAP
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
What about real mace? Is UDAP what you would whole-heartedly recommend? Will you spray your kid in the face before letting him carry?


Like Fox Mace has several products out.
I like their gel which is 10% OC and 1.33 MC
It's no where near as strong as the UDAP but would be better in a wind.

They may also have a 2% MC police formula but again the 3% UDAP is the strongest I have seen.

My son got an indirect spray of the UDAP when his mom tapped the button for 1/10 of a sec pointed in another direction in a small room.

He said neither of them could breath and he wanted to puke.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Is UDAP what you would whole-heartedly recommend?


I'm sorry I missed that.
Yes it is (at least until I see a stronger one)

For some reason it's cheaper on ebay than from the company direct

I got this one for both myself and my son
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-UDAP-Pepper-Sp...=item519839ae2c

I got this bigger one for walking in the mountains where we have "critter's" like mountain lions. A much bigger fog.. 12 feet vs 7 or so for the one above.
The spray is VERY strong and you can use it into a strong wind which you can't with the small one above
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UDAP-Pepper-Powe...=item43af9c5520

The do make a weaker one also so make sure they say hottest
 
Originally Posted By: johnnydc
Can you make your own brew? Just get some of the hottest peppers avalible and smash them into juice and put in bottle.


I've read that.
How would it be delivered?
I would have no clue how to "aerosol" it
The UDA is an oil base vs water for some which is not as good.
Some are alcohol based which can ignite.
I also read that strong a mix may not absorbed properly

I spoke of my son. There was nothing I wanted less than to have him cornered by 5 kids and the spray not affect the attacker, to only p him off more
 
I prefer to use foam or gel over spray. Any of it hurts most people and some are not affected at all by the stuff.

Make sure you have a clue before trusting the stuff on its operation and have training on its use.

I've been hit a few times, its not fun in any "sense". (pun intended)

It does not replace a real weapon.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


It does not replace a real weapon.


Very true Bill.
The sad truth is it's now almost impossible to get a CC in Ca today so you have to do the best you can do.
You have to prove an absolute necessity.

I had lunch with 2 CC trainers yesterday.
They said now even part time guards can't get a carry permit. You have to be full time.
 
I have researched pepper spray fairly extensively, and heat is but one factor to consider. The hottest spray you can buy won't be worth a darn if it won't spray effectively.

To that end, the gel type sprays from Sabre Red or Mace have the best combination of heat and delivery. It's a fire hose type pattern that isn't affected by wind.

I called Sabre and they indicated the consumer grade gel is the 1.33% major capsaicinoids (hotter than Fox Labs). The Mace gel is 1.4%. Fox regular is only like .6% major capsaicinoids (which is the only way to compare actual heat - scovil heat units is meaningless; it's the scovil heat units at what concentration that produces % of major capsaicinoids).
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
To that end, the gel type sprays from Sabre Red or Mace have the best combination of heat and delivery. It's a fire hose type pattern that isn't affected by wind.

I called Sabre and they indicated the consumer grade gel is the 1.33% major capsaicinoids (hotter than Fox Labs). The Mace gel is 1.4%. Fox regular is only like .6% major capsaicinoids


I don't agree with you on that.
I would take twice the power, 3% MC @ 10 Foot Fog vs their 1.33 @18 feet

I have used this right into a strong wind (which you can't with their small one) It blasts like their bear spray. I got a huge cone 12 foot out into no wind and 8 foot into a direct 10mph wind.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UDAP-Pepper-Powe...=item43af9c5520
 
I've tried Fox Labs and Sabre fog in wind. It doesn't work, and they both claim much more distance than 10 feet. Sabre gel OTOH comes out like a fire hose. I think it's a superior product.
 
I'd personally forget the Pepper Spray and Mace options and go for the real deal.

Your son most likely needs a "stun gun" to back off the Jackals.

I picked up one for my Grandson and the Bullies and 2 legged Dogs keep their distance after a couple of them got a taste of the stun.

Word gets out.....they will back off.
 
In my line of work ive been hit with and used these products alot, ive used the foggers and the streamers both, I like foggers for indoor use. OC is pretty awesome. Id have to break some out to read the can but ive used CS,CSOC, & OC straight OC is my favorite.
 
The stuff does work; I didn't even try a full deployment on myself. I just tested 2 expired cans of it one day to see how they deployed in wind. Just the blowback from the fog spray had me coughing and gagging and my eyes watered up.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
The stuff does work; I didn't even try a full deployment on myself. I just tested 2 expired cans of it one day to see how they deployed in wind. Just the blowback from the fog spray had me coughing and gagging and my eyes watered up.


For 99%+ of the people out there. But there are a few (esp when they are laced up with who knows what) who can get a full stream/load and just get more ticked off.

Agree its bad stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: mongo161
I'd personally forget the Pepper Spray and Mace options and go for the real deal.

Your son most likely needs a "stun gun" to back off the Jackals.

I picked up one for my Grandson
Word gets out.....they will back off.




I thought about that. Would you feel safe against 4-5 people?

5- 160-170lbs 17-18 year old guys chased him (he was then 15 @130 pounds)

I was a little worried about what that could do when 5 circle you.

I'm not too worried about him anymore. As a young man I was in the Winter Hill gang in Boston.
My real name (not Clark Flower) is in 2 books and I left 30 odd years ago in good standing after being acquitted of a few major things.

Right after they chased him I was just livid.(prior they had hit my sons friend on the head from behind with a hammer)

Maybe it was not right but in my anger I found each one of those kids on facebook. I sent each one a few links to published stories that included me by name.

I told them "some kids" (not naming them)chased my son.
That I knew who they were and where they lived
I asked if they could help me get the word out.

That if anything ever happened to my son I didn't think I could stop myself from getting on a plane and coming there and visiting each one of the people who did it. (very careful in my choice of words)

They never bothered him again.
 
Background: I have 10 years of corrections and police experience. I have personally used OC spray or seen it used dozens of times.

First things first, stun guns are completely worthless. Taser brand dart firing electrical weapons (what cops carry) are fantastic, but they cost $1000. The handheld $50 stun guns are complete garbage.

85% of police/corrections agencies in America use pepper spray made by Defense Tech. They have .2%, .4%. .7%, and 1.3% strengths. We carry the weaker .2 variety with corrections getting .7% variety for cell extractions. ALL OF THEM, including the weakest .2%, work fantastic. When I used the .7% during cell extractions, the inmates (and officers) usually threw up. That stuff is ridiculously hot, almost too hot.

The rest of the police market uses Fox Labs, Saber Red, and Freeze +P from what I have seen. Pick any of these three or Defense Tech and call it a day.

http://www.defense-technology.com/aerosol.aspx
http://www.foxlabs.com/home.shtml
http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-template/SABRELawEnforcementDivisionDefenseCatalog/Page
 
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