VW GTI Safe to buy yet?

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I was chatting with a recent purchaser of a 2012 GTI, he was experiencing a bit of buyers remourse over not waiting a few months until the 2013 ST arrived. After a test drive he really was kicking himself.
 
Originally Posted By: Stanley Rockafeller


It's not about how much power the car makes as mentioned in your previosu post, its all about WHEN it gives that power. On all the above vehicles, you need to really wring the engine to get those performance numbers, not so with the 2.5 5cyl.


Actually, the torque peak is hundreds of rpm earlier in the Toyota 2AR, Mazda MZR 2.5(and the similar Ford Duratec 25), Nissan QR25DE, and 100 rpm earlier with the Subaru FB25.

The VW 5 cylinder does produce it's peak torque a few hundred rpm before the GenIII Ecotec 2.5 but the GM engine produces SO much more torque that it is probably equal to or greater than the VW throughout the powerband

My Chrysler 2.4 makes about 70 ft-lbs more torque about 1000 rpm sooner than the VW 5 cyl. Makes about as much at 1800rpm as the GTi's 2.0 turbo and then completely outpowers it.
Noise? yep! Not as much as a Neon SRT/4 but it is a loud exhaust. Vibration? Got that too below 1500 rpm! Harshness. Yep! getting brutally spanked in acceleration by a clown hearse is pretty harsh.
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Actually, after we last chatted, I did a bit of research myself. And even though I might like it, I guess the engine is a little underperforming, considering it's consumption and design.

"Overbuilt and understressed" was the way one reviewer put it, and considering the technology on todays' cars that get much better FE while making more power.

I guess it is for the best that VW is pulling the plug on the 2.5 5 after all.
 
Originally Posted By: Stanley Rockafeller
Actually, after we last chatted, I did a bit of research myself. And even though I might like it, I guess the engine is a little underperforming, considering it's consumption and design.

"Overbuilt and understressed" was the way one reviewer put it, and considering the technology on todays' cars that get much better FE while making more power.

I guess it is for the best that VW is pulling the plug on the 2.5 5 after all.




OMG, yet ANOTHER VW that didn't last too long, a la the RABBIT?
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Come on, VW. I like you and all, but, adding that extra cylinder.. I must ask, "Why." Seems like a refinement of the 2.0 STILL has not come along.
 
After my last 2 experiences with VW products, I will NEVER, EVER purchase another. No matter how attractive.

Those dummies would not warranty parts that CLEARLY should have been in warranty.

Not only was my new Jetta unreliable, left us stranded 3 times! But it was impossible to get warranty coverage on certain items on it, while still WELL WITHIN the warranty period.

No, No, No.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
After my last 2 experiences with VW products, I will NEVER, EVER purchase another. No matter how attractive.

Those dummies would not warranty parts that CLEARLY should have been in warranty.

Not only was my new Jetta unreliable, left us stranded 3 times! But it was impossible to get warranty coverage on certain items on it, while still WELL WITHIN the warranty period.

No, No, No.


what exactly failed on your VW and what model was it?
 
Originally Posted By: Stanley Rockafeller


what exactly failed on your VW and what model was it?


2006 1/2 Jetta TDI w/DSG trans. (they sold them in 2007 as 06 model year, due to EPA requirements)

Dual mass flywheel exploded, taking out the trans bell housing. $7,000
Mechatronic valve body failed (internal to trans, electrical) warranty
Wide band oxygen sensor failed, 26,000mi (out of emissions warranty) $700
EGR cooler failed, 35,000 miles, (out of emissions warranty) $1500
Anti shudder valve failed, 40,000+ miles (out of emissions warranty) $400
Rear brakes locked up. No warranty
Electric power steering all over the road. VW refused to acknowledge. (local tech fixed for free)
In tank fuel pump failed 3 times. Eventually taking out the fuse box. Warranty the first 2 times. The last time, I fixed it, as the VW dealer could not replace the fuse box (beyond his abilities) $700.
Camshaft worn at 65,000 miles, bad batch of camshafts, known issue, no warranty. $2200
Gave the car away at 70,000 miles.

NO NO NO! NEVER AGAIN.
 
The expense of owning that car was bad enough. But when it died, it did so at the worst possible time.

The first time, in the middle of a very busy intersection, mid summer in South Florida. Wife and Husky-dog had to get out in all that traffic. Almost got hit. Blocked traffic for hours, waiting on the flat bed. Flat bed driver would not take the dog.

Second time, The car died and would not re-start. The security gate closed on the side of the car, seriously damaging it.

The third time, it died close to home with a load of groceries and frozen foods. I came home from work, towed it myself. Groceries ruined.

Other times it died, I was able to get it going again. Sometimes on 2 or 3 cylinders (as the fuel pump died)

There is more I don't remember.
 
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Can you explain how VW was able to hoodwink you from honoring the emission warranty? I thought federal emission warranty is 8yr/80K on major components.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Can you explain how VW was able to hoodwink you from honoring the emission warranty? I thought federal emission warranty is 8yr/80K on major components.


2 years/24,000 mile emissions warranty. Says so right in the owners manual. At the time my car was built, I suspect the federal requirements are/were for gas vehicles.

But what bothered me was that the car came with a "bumper to bumper" warranty of 3/36. Seems it was not bumper to bumper after all. And some of the components involved were "powertrain" components, that carried a 5/60,000 mile warranty.
 
If you're used to a domestic pickup with 200K on it, I wouldn't mess with any VW. Different scenarios...there's no fixing the VW for $40 in the Advance Auto or Pull-A-Part parking lot.

My brother in law is a die hard VW fan. He had a 200K+ mile Jetta he bought new and an old Karmann Ghia project, both sold because of being monumental piles. He ended up moving on to Subaru, still quirky, but not a continual project like VWs.
 
2012/13 Golf 2.5L w/Auto is a STEAL for aprx. 18.7k. 0% long term financing. 3 yr. service inc. Go drive one....you will not find a more quiet, refined and comfortable car for the price. German Quality. The 2.5L engine is very reliable and smooth powerplant. No steering wheel vibration @ idle. Doesn't get the best gas mileage but you'll quickly forget the slightly less mpg's after enjoying everthing else the car does so well. Now, I can see the higher costs associated w/GTI models and the DSG. The base Golf 2.5l is a very, very good car.
 
Originally Posted By: sparky123
2012/13 Golf 2.5L w/Auto is a STEAL for aprx. 18.7k. 0% long term financing. 3 yr. service inc. Go drive one....you will not find a more quiet, refined and comfortable car for the price. German Quality. The 2.5L engine is very reliable and smooth powerplant. No steering wheel vibration @ idle. Doesn't get the best gas mileage but you'll quickly forget the slightly less mpg's after enjoying everthing else the car does so well. Now, I can see the higher costs associated w/GTI models and the DSG. The base Golf 2.5l is a very, very good car.


To be fair, there is no steering wheel vibration in a 2012 Hyundai Sonata either and it's 2.4 liter 4 cylinder is quite a bit more powerful than the larger VW 2.5 5 cylinder.
I haven't driven a 2012 Camry any further than from my parking lot to the garage, but the 2.5 4cylinder 2AR was very smooth at idle and under low throttle application.
The GEMA based Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback's 2.4 4cyl is far more responsive than the VW 2.5 5cyl. Didn't seem to be any more coarse than your average Jetta.
I haven't driven the Mazda SkyActiv 2.5 or GenIII 2.5 Ecotec, but the numbers bury the 5cyl VW. Refinement remains to be seen and felt.

The real advantage to the Golf is one that it's held since 1974. It's truncated hatch. It's not much for aerodynamics but it is immensely practical. It can often consume objects that fullsize sedans cannot. Combine that with fairly decent European driving manners and the 5cyl lump of slightly below average under the hood doesn't matter that much.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
The expense of owning that car was bad enough. But when it died, it did so at the worst possible time.

The first time, in the middle of a very busy intersection, mid summer in South Florida. Wife and Husky-dog had to get out in all that traffic. Almost got hit. Blocked traffic for hours, waiting on the flat bed. Flat bed driver would not take the dog.

Second time, The car died and would not re-start. The security gate closed on the side of the car, seriously damaging it.

The third time, it died close to home with a load of groceries and frozen foods. I came home from work, towed it myself. Groceries ruined.

Other times it died, I was able to get it going again. Sometimes on 2 or 3 cylinders (as the fuel pump died)

There is more I don't remember.


It sounds like you had a horrendous experience and I wouldn't blame you if you set fire to the local VW dealership and never owned another one. But I'm sure you don't believe that every, or even more than an extreme minority of VW's cars end up this way.
 
It does seem that VWs have reliability issues in the US. I think, though, that it may have something to do with how they are serviced and repaired. When I lived in Europe, VWs seemed to be among the more reliable vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: Mykl


It sounds like you had a horrendous experience and I wouldn't blame you if you set fire to the local VW dealership and never owned another one. But I'm sure you don't believe that every, or even more than an extreme minority of VW's cars end up this way.


Well, in defense of what I said, the TDI forums are "chock-a-block" full of TDI owners with the exact same set of problems I experienced. Some of them still drink the TDI Kool-aid, some don't.

Next time I want an efficient car, I'm getting a Toyota.
 
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