Changed the cam in my LS1 and discovered SLUDGE

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Unleashedbeast

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Jun 5, 2005
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Pensacola, Florida
Yesterday was the good ol' cam swap in my Gen 3 LS1 V8, but the discovery wasn't pleasing at all. Under the valve covers all grayish metal was covered by a black sludge and looked like gloss black powder coat. I wasn't to worried at this time, but when we removed the front timing chain covered I was floored. EVERYTHING in the engine was coated with this filth.
frown.gif
Both the oil pump and cam gear looked to be gloss black powder coated. Everything that oil could possibly touch was coated with this black film. You had to rub the surface kinda hard with your thumb so that you could see the varnished metal beneath it. Now here comes the upsetting part.

I bought a bottle of Auto-RX a couple of months ago just for the heck of it and the fact I had 80K miles on my car. I changed the oil filter and simply added the contents to my current fill of GC 0W-30 (Hope I don't upset the elves, lol). I left it in there for 1500 miles and then changed the oil (Castrol GTX 10W-40) and filter (Supertech 3675) then ran the car another 1,000 miles for the rinse phase. I only dropped the rinse oil 500 miles early so that I could change the camshaft in the engine. So, after discovery of the sludge and reassembly of the engine I had a bottle of Seafoam sitting on the shelf. I added it to the 6 qt. fill of Castrol GTX 10W-40 in hopes that the solvent based cleaner will help remove the heavy black sludge that has plauged my engine better than the past Auto-Rx that has just ran a complete clean and rinse cycle. Even the stock camshaft removed from the engine had sludge discoloration building up on the cam lobes, NOT GOOD!!!

"Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, your my only hope."

How do I remove this virus from my engine? I bought the car used with 25K miles on the clock and have babied it ever since with nothing but Mobil 1 10W-30 synthetic or German Castrol 0W-30 and have NEVER went past recommended intervals. I am now worried that the past owners either neglected the car or the car had more miles than the odometer cared to tell me about.

Would the gurus please help me.
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You might need to check the PCV valve. If it stops working, or is disconnected you can start to get heavy varnish or sludge.
 
Also along with the PCV valve, has this car had alot of cold start city type driving, and what is the typical engine operating temperature?
 
Two things, Lube Control and Seafoam. Lube Control regularly as per directions(or a bit higher concentration for good cleaning results IMO) and a can of Seafoam 200 miles before your next oil change. You will see some real cleaning from both these products.

One more thing, if your performance is not what you think it should or could be, have your O2 sensors checked. I just had them replaced in both of my vehicles and the difference is night and day. Improper burning of fuel can contribute to sludge and bad O2 sensors can be a mojor factor in incomplete combustion. At 80K miles it might be time for new wires and plugs too.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bobert:
You might need to check the PCV valve. If it stops working, or is disconnected you can start to get heavy varnish or sludge.
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I have a catch can custom built into my PCV system with a secondary filter after the catch can to catch any extra vapor the can missed. I do get oil in the can and some in the filter. The PCV valve is new and everything has been working fine. The catch can and filter eliminated the oil injecting back into the intake problem LS1s have. I still see very little grime form on the PCV valve itself (which is after the catch can filter) so I think that air flow is still ok. Is this setup causing my problem? Should I disconnect it to solve it?
 
quote:
Originally posted by stogiedude:
Two things, Lube Control and Seafoam. Lube Control regularly as per directions(or a bit higher concentration for good cleaning results IMO) and a can of Seafoam 200 miles before your next oil change. You will see some real cleaning from both these products.

One more thing, if your performance is not what you think it should or could be, have your O2 sensors checked. I just had them replaced in both of my vehicles and the difference is night and day. Improper burning of fuel can contribute to sludge and bad O2 sensors can be a mojor factor in incomplete combustion. At 80K miles it might be time for new wires and plugs too.
Click to expand...
I put a full can of Seafoam in the new oil when I refilled the engine. The O2 sensors (Denso) are less than 1 year old as I replaced them with my new long tube headers and exhaust. Wires have less than 15K on them and plugs 5K so everything is rather new.
 
quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney:
Also along with the PCV valve, has this car had alot of cold start city type driving, and what is the typical engine operating temperature?
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I live in North Louisiana so it is pretty hot and humid during the summer months. My car is driven mostly rural highway about 5-6 miles to work and back. The car does have plenty of time to reach 175-195 temps(185 Avg.)depending on how hot the day is. I don't drive in the city often and have mostly non stop highway miles.
 
I also did a UOA on my engine this year and other than the increased silicone level and % of fuel dilution nothing suggested this problem was there. Green German Castrol 0W-30 for 4K miles.

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[ August 23, 2005, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Unleashedbeast ]
 
I personally would have sent this to Dyson Analysis for interpretation. The 2% fuel and the 1.3 % insolubles stand out to me enough that I want a professional to look at it. JMO

smile.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by Unleashedbeast:

quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney:
Also along with the PCV valve, has this car had alot of cold start city type driving, and what is the typical engine operating temperature?
Click to expand...
I live in North Louisiana so it is pretty hot and humid during the summer months. My car is driven mostly rural highway about 5-6 miles to work and back. The car does have plenty of time to reach 175-195 temps(185 Avg.)depending on how hot the day is. I don't drive in the city often and have mostly non stop highway miles.
Click to expand...
Yeah but its sounding like the oil doesn't get much time to get up to temp. How many quarts are in that system?

It takes me a good 15 minutes to get my 440 oil to operating temp here in south Florida and it only has 5 quarts.

I had a problem with a road race Mustang in DC where I learned oil temps good. It was a 10 quart system, and in the winter time I found the oil level going way UP from fuel dilution. A long one hour drive was what it took to get the level back down in my case.

Its also possible that the car never had its factory oil changed either before you got it to compound the problem
rolleyes.gif
 
BTW - I know its not the norm, but I like to leave the ARX in until the oil turns dark myself now. I finally got my 4.6 Ford to quit consuming oil when I used the ARX on a second cycle for 4000 miles combined with Mobil 1 5W20 and a full bottle of VSOT.
 
No one has mentioned it ..

Auto Rx isn't supposed to be used with a synth in the cleaning phase. Frank appears to allow it with Group III "synths" ..but GC isn't a group III synth. Also, it may take two treatments to get a particular condition clean.

nick: my daughter's 3.0 Vulcan went from using oil by the hour of operation ..to less then 1/2 quart in over 3 months. I couldn't have asked for more bang for the buck.
 
59 Vetteman flagged the problem....

The high fuel contamination is driving this issue and causing the engine to sludge up. A TS level of 1.3% looks like a diesel engine and not a gas engine!

I'd run a 15w-40 HDEO (Delo 400) with 3000 mile change intervals and repeat the Auto RX clean cycle for the full 3000 miles.I also tune up the engine and check the function of all the emissions components.


Finally - I'd move a lot further from work...
wink.gif


Tooslick
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
No one has mentioned it ..

Auto Rx isn't supposed to be used with a synth in the cleaning phase. Frank appears to allow it with Group III "synths" ..but GC isn't a group III synth. Also, it may take two treatments to get a particular condition clean.

nick: my daughter's 3.0 Vulcan went from using oil by the hour of operation ..to less then 1/2 quart in over 3 months. I couldn't have asked for more bang for the buck.
Click to expand...
I think he ran Castrol GTX 10-40 for the rinse, or that is the impression I got.
 
No offense but there are a few indicators of the problem. Terry would have been most helpful in this situation.

And I wouldn't make any judgements on the efficacy of ARX as you have no idea what it looked like beforehand...the UOA sure was nasty.
 
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