Please educate me about the Hemi engines

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: morris
" living on past glory." you need to check out the class SS/AH at NHRA. its THE 1968 Hemi Cuda. this is the RACE HEMI. the FASTEST stock car PERIOD. when new they turned 10.80s off the trailer today they run 8.80s STILL NO challengers. i got to see them new, talked to Ronnie Sox in person.


Yeah, and the BOSS 429 in ProStock Mountain Motor runs in the 6's and makes north of 2200HP. Both are so far from a "street car" or "street engine" that it is completely meaningless.

You and I have had a few back-and-forth's about this before though

 

[morris]

the 1968 Hemi Cuda, "per chrysler", was NOT to be a street car it was to be a STOCK legal NHRA car. chrysler put stickers on that car that told you this is NOT a street legal car. but it IS a stock legal NHRA car. i have seen those stickers in person, in 1968. that " ProStock Mountain Motor" is NOT NHRA stock. are you sure you want to race a chrysler 426 mountain motor? be car full what you wish for. till you have beat SS/AH chrysler Hemis in that class, dont tell me how great others are. in 1968 i was in Tulsa at the World Point finals. the chevys and fords was crying that they couldnt beat the Hemi. to keep them quite NHRA made a class that was HEMIs ONLY.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: morris
the 1968 Hemi Cuda, "per chrysler", was NOT to be a street car it was to be a STOCK legal NHRA car. chrysler put stickers on that car that told you this is NOT a street legal car. but it IS a stock legal NHRA car. i have seen those stickers in person, in 1968. that " ProStock Mountain Motor" is NOT NHRA stock. are you sure you want to race a chrysler 426 mountain motor? be car full what you wish for. till you have beat SS/AH chrysler Hemis in that class, dont tell me how great others are. in 1968 i was in Tulsa at the World Point finals. the chevys and fords was crying that they couldnt beat the Hemi. to keep them quite NHRA made a class that was HEMIs ONLY.


Robert Patrick beat the Chrysler HEMI cars in ProStock Mountain Motor in the Mopar Nationals at Cayuga Motorsport park. He beat all the track records for MPH and ET in the class. I WAS THERE. I'll put the BOSS 429 in that class up against anything anybody else has ever made to run it, because Ford had a motor that would do 820+ cubes and has DOMINATED the class since its inception.

The BOSS 429 "Super BOSS" was a street legal car that ran in the 10's off the showroom floor with its 494ci CAN-AM engine.

Ford had two engines that would run head-to-head with the HEMI, the 427 SOHC and the BOSS 429. The latter being extremely successful, hence its domination in the class being discussed.

This isn't new subject matter, we've hashed this out before. You love the HEMI. I get it. But it doesn't make it untouchable. Lest you forget, the BOSS 429 and 427 SOHC were hemispherical chambered engines too. It isn't like Chrysler had exclusive rights to the design here.......

 

[mechanicx]

Pfft Boss 429 big deal. So Ford builds what 1500 of them so they can use the engine in NASCAR because they can't win with their real production design engine against Chrysler Hemis and Big Block Chevies, and they can't use their purpose built cheater cammer motor. That's just like Ford to need a special engine, OHC or 4 valves to run with a Chevy or Chrysler

haha.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Pfft Boss 429 big deal. So Ford builds what 1500 of them so they can use the engine in NASCAR because they can't win with their real production design engine against Chrysler Hemis and Big Block Chevies, and they can't use their purpose built cheater cammer motor. That's just like Ford to need a special engine, OHC or 4 valves to run with a Chevy or Chrysler

haha.


LMAO! Well, wasn't the 426 built for the same purpose?

Supposedly the 427 SOHC was never allowed to run because Chrysler threatened to pull out of NASCAR if Ford was allowed to use it. Hence the birth of the BOSS 429.

Now we have cookie cutter small blocks and a manufacturer that never made a pushrod V8 competing in the sport.... My how times have changed

 

[SteveSRT8]

Everyone who thinks the new gen "Hemi" is balless is severely mistaken.

6.1 cars routinely exceed 380 rwhp brand new and stock... NO stock hemi from the old daze even comes close despite a lot more cubic inches! Breathe on them a bit and they can be VERY strong, but they are problematic if really wicked up to the max.

Example: My BIL has a 426 Hemi in his shop right now. This is the guy's FOURTH attempt to create a reliable street car with the motor. He doesn't know it yet, but he came to the right place this time. Just valve covers go for north of 4k on one of these!!!!!

Sorry, but modern motors beat the old guys to death, definitely on power but also on reliability and durability.

 

[artificialist]

OHV wedge style V engines often have to route the intake port around the pushrod, whereas Hemi style OHV V engines don't. On inline OHV engines with the intake and exhaust manifold are on the same size, that doesn't have to happen.

SOHC wedge style engines, such as the Ford Modular, don't need to route the intake port around anything, so it is basically a straight shot into the chamber.

The other thing about hemi heads, they are significantly more difficult to build as an OHV engine when compared to wedge style engines. When making a SOHC engine, the difference isn't as bad.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Everyone who thinks the new gen "Hemi" is balless is severely mistaken.

6.1 cars routinely exceed 380 rwhp brand new and stock... NO stock hemi from the old daze even comes close despite a lot more cubic inches! Breathe on them a bit and they can be VERY strong, but they are problematic if really wicked up to the max.

Example: My BIL has a 426 Hemi in his shop right now. This is the guy's FOURTH attempt to create a reliable street car with the motor. He doesn't know it yet, but he came to the right place this time. Just valve covers go for north of 4k on one of these!!!!!

Sorry, but modern motors beat the old guys to death, definitely on power but also on reliability and durability.

This. I laugh sometimes when old guys tell me no fuel injected car can run 13's let alone 11's. Today is the good old days.
I love old cars, but they are slow.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Everyone who thinks the new gen "Hemi" is balless is severely mistaken.

6.1 cars routinely exceed 380 rwhp brand new and stock... NO stock hemi from the old daze even comes close despite a lot more cubic inches! Breathe on them a bit and they can be VERY strong, but they are problematic if really wicked up to the max.

Example: My BIL has a 426 Hemi in his shop right now. This is the guy's FOURTH attempt to create a reliable street car with the motor. He doesn't know it yet, but he came to the right place this time. Just valve covers go for north of 4k on one of these!!!!!

Sorry, but modern motors beat the old guys to death, definitely on power but also on reliability and durability.

This. I laugh sometimes when old guys tell me no fuel injected car can run 13's let alone 11's. Today is the good old days.
I love old cars, but they are slow.


This reminds me of a somewhat unrelated story, but I think you and Steve will both get a laugh out of it, so I'll share it anyway.

A buddy of mine has a '92 notch with a built 302. TFS heads, Performer RPM intake and an S-trim. Car makes 525RWHP. Also has a 6-point cage.

Well, he's picking up his wife (girlfriend at the time) from work and is asked if he can give her friend a ride home.

Her friend climbs over the cage into the back and sits down. He takes off and is of course driving conservatively. She comments about the roll cage and then starts in about how her boyfriend has some insanely fast Civic and how Mustangs are slow and blah blah blah. He listens to this for about 5 minutes and then just casually side-steps 2nd and pulls to the shift light through 2nd and third. Her head folds over the rear seat and she is grabbing at everything she can. He tones it down and she is WHITE (he's running on an ET street radial) and didn't say a word the rest of the drive

As she's getting out of the car he says casually "so your boyfriend's Civic is fast eh?" and she just looks at him with "that look" of "I just [censored] my pants all over your back seat" and doesn't say anything

 

[P20565R16]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Everyone who thinks the new gen "Hemi" is balless is severely mistaken.

6.1 cars routinely exceed 380 rwhp brand new and stock... NO stock hemi from the old daze even comes close despite a lot more cubic inches! Breathe on them a bit and they can be VERY strong, but they are problematic if really wicked up to the max.

Example: My BIL has a 426 Hemi in his shop right now. This is the guy's FOURTH attempt to create a reliable street car with the motor. He doesn't know it yet, but he came to the right place this time. Just valve covers go for north of 4k on one of these!!!!!

Sorry, but modern motors beat the old guys to death, definitely on power but also on reliability and durability.

This. I laugh sometimes when old guys tell me no fuel injected car can run 13's let alone 11's. Today is the good old days.
I love old cars, but they are slow.


This reminds me of a somewhat unrelated story, but I think you and Steve will both get a laugh out of it, so I'll share it anyway.

A buddy of mine has a '92 notch with a built 302. TFS heads, Performer RPM intake and an S-trim. Car makes 525RWHP. Also has a 6-point cage.

Well, he's picking up his wife (girlfriend at the time) from work and is asked if he can give her friend a ride home.

Her friend climbs over the cage into the back and sits down. He takes off and is of course driving conservatively. She comments about the roll cage and then starts in about how her boyfriend has some insanely fast Civic and how Mustangs are slow and blah blah blah. He listens to this for about 5 minutes and then just casually side-steps 2nd and pulls to the shift light through 2nd and third. Her head folds over the rear seat and she is grabbing at everything she can. He tones it down and she is WHITE (he's running on an ET street radial) and didn't say a word the rest of the drive

As she's getting out of the car he says casually "so your boyfriend's Civic is fast eh?" and she just looks at him with "that look" of "I just [censored] my pants all over your back seat" and doesn't say anything

This also reminds me of when the Supra guys said their car could waste the 10-second Twin Turbo Dodge Hennessy Viper when they had it at the track for q/mi times, you have to bite your tongue a lil bit when someone with a slow car and a farrht can and some nos starts mouthing off about their slow car that has to give it everything its got to keep up with an even moderately built car that was built right not bolt-on and a stereo system and some tints and it's fast.

 

[ls1mike]

I hate having to bite my tonque, it happens more than I would like when people talk about how "fast" their car is. Such is life and it most be done.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Everyone who thinks the new gen "Hemi" is balless is severely mistaken.

6.1 cars routinely exceed 380 rwhp brand new and stock... NO stock hemi from the old daze even comes close despite a lot more cubic inches! Breathe on them a bit and they can be VERY strong, but they are problematic if really wicked up to the max.

Example: My BIL has a 426 Hemi in his shop right now. This is the guy's FOURTH attempt to create a reliable street car with the motor. He doesn't know it yet, but he came to the right place this time. Just valve covers go for north of 4k on one of these!!!!!

Sorry, but modern motors beat the old guys to death, definitely on power but also on reliability and durability.

This. I laugh sometimes when old guys tell me no fuel injected car can run 13's let alone 11's. Today is the good old days.
I love old cars, but they are slow.


Hardly.



Yes, that's a 9.98 run at 139+MPH...on 6" wide bias-ply tires. And yes, he DID hit the brakes before the finish line!

 

[PZR2874]

I've been wanting to pick up a Cherokee SRT8 for years.... Can't beat the AWD'ish drivetrain.

Just wish they weren't so high $

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Everyone who thinks the new gen "Hemi" is balless is severely mistaken.

6.1 cars routinely exceed 380 rwhp brand new and stock... NO stock hemi from the old daze even comes close despite a lot more cubic inches! Breathe on them a bit and they can be VERY strong, but they are problematic if really wicked up to the max.

Example: My BIL has a 426 Hemi in his shop right now. This is the guy's FOURTH attempt to create a reliable street car with the motor. He doesn't know it yet, but he came to the right place this time. Just valve covers go for north of 4k on one of these!!!!!

Sorry, but modern motors beat the old guys to death, definitely on power but also on reliability and durability.

This. I laugh sometimes when old guys tell me no fuel injected car can run 13's let alone 11's. Today is the good old days.
I love old cars, but they are slow.


Hardly.



Yes, that's a 9.98 run at 139+MPH...on 6" wide bias-ply tires. And yes, he DID hit the brakes before the finish line!


OK?

A buddy of mine (he's a tuner in Florida) had a twin-turbo '03 Cobra. It trapped 145Mph

And it was 100% streetable with perfect manners, full interior....etc. Also got decent gas mileage, would idle with the A/C on, sit in traffic. Off the boost you'd never know it was what it was.

I think ls1mike is talking in general with respect to the "good old boys" that had some stock 1970 Chevelle that was faster than anything on the road even though it ran 15's. These are the guys typically ripping on modern cars saying that fuelie cars are slow.... blah blah blah. I've met plenty of these people. There was a GORGEOUS green late 60's HEMI Charger at Shannonville a few years back. You should have heard the crowing from the good old boys in the audience about those of us there with our Mustangs that this was a REAL car and it was going to "show those Mustang boys how it was done".... It ran 13's

The guys I was there with that day all had bottom 11-second cars that were daily driven.

You can make ANYTHING fast if you put enough money into it. But stock-for-stock, any of the modern muscle cars are faster than the muscle cars from "back-in-they-day" with cars like the TASCA Super BOSS and morris's example excepted of course.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
A buddy of mine (he's a tuner in Florida) had a twin-turbo '03 Cobra. It trapped 145Mph

And it was 100% streetable with perfect manners, full interior....etc. Also got decent gas mileage, would idle with the A/C on, sit in traffic. Off the boost you'd never know it was what it was.


What shop is the tuner from?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

I think ls1mike is talking in general with respect to the "good old boys" that had some stock 1970 Chevelle that was faster than anything on the road even though it ran 15's. These are the guys typically ripping on modern cars saying that fuelie cars are slow.... blah blah blah. I've met plenty of these people. There was a GORGEOUS green late 60's HEMI Charger at Shannonville a few years back. You should have heard the crowing from the good old boys in the audience about those of us there with our Mustangs that this was a REAL car and it was going to "show those Mustang boys how it was done".... It ran 13's

The guys I was there with that day all had bottom 11-second cars that were daily driven.

You can make ANYTHING fast if you put enough money into it. But stock-for-stock, any of the modern muscle cars are faster than the muscle cars from "back-in-they-day" with cars like the TASCA Super BOSS and morris's example excepted of course.


Absolutely. And I'm always talking stock, as some folks have no budget!

Just like the wild cars I see at the strip all the time, and I always mention to them that if they put 3 very hefty friends in their car it might be a bit more fair at my curb weight.

Actually a stripped out 5.7 would make a better drag car as it would start out several hundred pounds lighter than my tarted up example!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
A buddy of mine (he's a tuner in Florida) had a twin-turbo '03 Cobra. It trapped 145Mph

And it was 100% streetable with perfect manners, full interior....etc. Also got decent gas mileage, would idle with the A/C on, sit in traffic. Off the boost you'd never know it was what it was.


What shop is the tuner from?


Check PM, not sure he wants his name tossed around