Necessity of Loctite on Brake Caliper Bolts?
- Thread starter The Critic
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Originally Posted By: BrianWC
If anything, I overtorque... So I dunno... Thankfully a local euro mechanic spent 30 mins digging through a giant bin of spare bolts until he found a replacement, then refused to take money for it.
I know this is an old job you're talking about, but did you use a torque wrench? If you didn't then you have no idea if it was over or under torqued.
If anything, I overtorque... So I dunno... Thankfully a local euro mechanic spent 30 mins digging through a giant bin of spare bolts until he found a replacement, then refused to take money for it.
I know this is an old job you're talking about, but did you use a torque wrench? If you didn't then you have no idea if it was over or under torqued.
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/suspension-chassis-brakes-47/loctite-required-caliper-bolts-527213/
http://ls1tech.com/forums/ls4-performance/1572250-bolts-backing-out.html
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/suspension-modifications-211/830977-loose-caliper-bolts.html
People in the SVT thread mention that it is not difficult to remove red loctite with hand tools, from larger caliper bolts.
Can anyone attest to that? Thanks.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/ls4-performance/1572250-bolts-backing-out.html
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/suspension-modifications-211/830977-loose-caliper-bolts.html
People in the SVT thread mention that it is not difficult to remove red loctite with hand tools, from larger caliper bolts.
Can anyone attest to that? Thanks.
I use the Permatex silver anti-sieze on my brake caliper bolts.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I use the Permatex silver anti-sieze on my brake caliper bolts.
I use the Permatex silver anti-sieze on my brake caliper bolts.
It appears that Monroe suggests using threadlocker on the caliper bolts. This is the first major part supplier to recommend this, afaik:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o4COk2FNTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o4COk2FNTg
Interesting. I have never used Loctite on caliper bolts.
Granted, most brake jobs I have done were on Fords. I did do brakes on a early 1990s Grand Prix though, and a late 1980s G20 van. On the van I did the whole nine...new calipers and new hoses because what was on there was shot and the replacement parts totaled up to about $20. AFAIK, everything worked out fine.
If the factory service manual recommends Loctite though, I would definitely use it.
Granted, most brake jobs I have done were on Fords. I did do brakes on a early 1990s Grand Prix though, and a late 1980s G20 van. On the van I did the whole nine...new calipers and new hoses because what was on there was shot and the replacement parts totaled up to about $20. AFAIK, everything worked out fine.
If the factory service manual recommends Loctite though, I would definitely use it.
First of all are they the same design though?
I know the pins on the Toyota and Honda that I've worked on had separate pin and bolt unlike the Saturn SL1 that I saw online. The pin is holding onto just the rubber boot and the bolt hold the caliper between the pin and the bolt. I'd imagine the bolt is much less stressed in the Toyota and Honda design than the Saturn, and therefore no need for locktite.
I know the pins on the Toyota and Honda that I've worked on had separate pin and bolt unlike the Saturn SL1 that I saw online. The pin is holding onto just the rubber boot and the bolt hold the caliper between the pin and the bolt. I'd imagine the bolt is much less stressed in the Toyota and Honda design than the Saturn, and therefore no need for locktite.
The reasoning for using loctite on caliper or pad bracket bolts is probably extra precaution in case of the bolts weren't torqued fully to spec and the brakes getting hot. I don't think threadlocker is a necessity. I never had brake a bolt come loose without threadlocker even though it is recommended on GM models.
IMO I can't imagine brake bolts sizing and torque specs could be anything less than overkill regardless of threadlocker, so they wouldn't loosen.
IMO I can't imagine brake bolts sizing and torque specs could be anything less than overkill regardless of threadlocker, so they wouldn't loosen.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
People in the SVT thread mention that it is not difficult to remove red loctite with hand tools, from larger caliper bolts.
Can anyone attest to that? Thanks.
Maybe the factory applied red product is not the same as the aftermarket Loctite red?
My Caravan FSM does not mention any use of thread locker on brakes.
People in the SVT thread mention that it is not difficult to remove red loctite with hand tools, from larger caliper bolts.
Can anyone attest to that? Thanks.
Maybe the factory applied red product is not the same as the aftermarket Loctite red?
My Caravan FSM does not mention any use of thread locker on brakes.
on the bracket to knuckle I always use blue locktite for insurance. blue will come off without heat.
never put it on the caliper bolts though. i just snug them tight.
never put it on the caliper bolts though. i just snug them tight.
I have one car I always use Loctite on - my 1988 Fiero.
I had an incident about 5-6 years ago where I started hearing a clunk every time I applied the brakes. Getting out to investigate, I found one of the rear caliper bolts had gone missing and the second bolt was working its way loose from use. The caliper was rocking back and forth every time I applied the brakes! Fortunately I had my tools with me (including the necessary T55 socket) and tightened the remaining bolt down good and snug. I also used some tie-wire where the other one had been, just in case. Made it home fine.
In all fairness, however, it turned out someone (a P.O.? a mechanic? I don't know) had disassembled that caliper some years earlier and re-assembled it with the slider on backwards (the sliders bolt solidly to the knuckle and the caliper glides back and forth on them). One end of the slider is countersunk to receive the bolt and the other is not, so with it mounted backwards the bolt was against the non-countersunk end and as a result only a couple threads were actually threaded into the knuckle. How long it had been that was was anyone's guess.
I had an incident about 5-6 years ago where I started hearing a clunk every time I applied the brakes. Getting out to investigate, I found one of the rear caliper bolts had gone missing and the second bolt was working its way loose from use. The caliper was rocking back and forth every time I applied the brakes! Fortunately I had my tools with me (including the necessary T55 socket) and tightened the remaining bolt down good and snug. I also used some tie-wire where the other one had been, just in case. Made it home fine.
In all fairness, however, it turned out someone (a P.O.? a mechanic? I don't know) had disassembled that caliper some years earlier and re-assembled it with the slider on backwards (the sliders bolt solidly to the knuckle and the caliper glides back and forth on them). One end of the slider is countersunk to receive the bolt and the other is not, so with it mounted backwards the bolt was against the non-countersunk end and as a result only a couple threads were actually threaded into the knuckle. How long it had been that was was anyone's guess.
Have a Toyota, no loctite.
I remember those calipers on '88 Fieros. As I remember them,they were sort of like a fixed caliper with the pads anchored inside the caliper and with locating pins, but were really single piston floating calipers. The caliper sliders bore all the load. Some people's hard driving really got those caliper sliders bound up. The brakes on the '88 Fiero were kind of neat but also kind of a pain in the butt
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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I remember those calipers on '88 Fieros.
Yep, while the other years ('84-'87) used off-the-shelf calipers, the '88 Fiero calipers were found on only one other car - the Pontiac 6000 AWD. Only the rear ones if I remember right. Fortunately the '88 calipers are still readily available as rebuilds (front and rear) or NOS (front only) unlike certain other '88-only parts. But yeah, I'm not the only one who has experienced the loosening of the caliper bolts on the '88s. Loctite is highly recommended among '88 owners.
I remember those calipers on '88 Fieros.
Yep, while the other years ('84-'87) used off-the-shelf calipers, the '88 Fiero calipers were found on only one other car - the Pontiac 6000 AWD. Only the rear ones if I remember right. Fortunately the '88 calipers are still readily available as rebuilds (front and rear) or NOS (front only) unlike certain other '88-only parts. But yeah, I'm not the only one who has experienced the loosening of the caliper bolts on the '88s. Loctite is highly recommended among '88 owners.
If we are talking about the brake caliper BRACKET bolts that you must remove to take a rotor off..which are larger than the caliper slide bolts..than Loctite is recommended. I actually use the lower strenght blue as opposed to the red.
For the caliper slide pins/bolts than brake lube is used on the pins but nothing on the bolt threads.
For the caliper slide pins/bolts than brake lube is used on the pins but nothing on the bolt threads.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
If we are talking about the brake caliper BRACKET bolts that you must remove to take a rotor off..which are larger than the caliper slide bolts..than Loctite is recommended. I actually use the lower strenght blue as opposed to the red.
For the caliper slide pins/bolts than brake lube is used on the pins but nothing on the bolt threads.
I have seen a lot of factory bolts, both new and replacement, for the caliper bracket to upright come with thread locking applied. Now bracket to caliper, I have seen it occasionally, but not as often.
If we are talking about the brake caliper BRACKET bolts that you must remove to take a rotor off..which are larger than the caliper slide bolts..than Loctite is recommended. I actually use the lower strenght blue as opposed to the red.
For the caliper slide pins/bolts than brake lube is used on the pins but nothing on the bolt threads.
I have seen a lot of factory bolts, both new and replacement, for the caliper bracket to upright come with thread locking applied. Now bracket to caliper, I have seen it occasionally, but not as often.
Here's a pic of the '88 Fiero caliper for anyone curious, front:http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=115892&cc=1249208 rear: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=115941&cc=1249208 (with the common for the time GM integral parking brake). You can see the long pins that go through the pads and how the pads are anchored into the caliper sort of like a fixed caliper. The bottom of the caliper is the caliper sliders and they are carrying all the load. It's kind of easy to see how those bolts were subjected to loosening forces, especially if the sliders were siezed in their bores which wasn't that uncommon. I never had them come loose without loctite but the few times I dealt with them I tightened the pee out of them. Hmm, maybe experiences with these types of calipers is partly what motivates GM to use threadlocker on caliper bolts?
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None of the Toyota service manuals (5) I have mention thread locker on brakes. They have torque specs.
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